Steel is real attempt #2 - Cotic BFe - Now for sale

lawman

RichBrooks wrote:

I caught your previous thread about the Slackline before Christmas through a random google trawl, as it's a top candidate for my new frame - so it's uncanny that you now have a Bfe, seeing as my choices have recently been narrowed down to these two.

How much time did you end up having on the Slackline before it failed on you? I'm guessing not long, seeing as your seat tube was defective from the off, but I'd be curious to know how the two compare.

I had the Slackline built for about two weeks, but other than riding to the LBS stood up the whole way it never got ridden in anger so it's difficult to say. It did feel pretty good, geometry was nice and slack, long top tube and it felt pretty comfy. I've ridden the BFe only once in anger so far due to work but from a similar car park test to the Slackline it feels pretty similar, a little less slack but it's still responsive and seems really stable. As the BFe is a bit cheaper, IMO looks better and I've had no issues with it, I'd go for the BFe. A friend works in a shop and they had a Slackline that had the exact same problem as mine, so it's not an isolated incident either so you have to question the quality of the frames. I'm chuffed with the BFe, it rides really nicely and it looks the bomb now it's finished

Cqc

blackspiere now make a wide narrow chainring for 25 quid on crc if you havent bought the works one yet...

RichBrooks

Yeah, that pretty much follows what I've heard - I've been researching both bikes for a while, and the delving I've done has lead me to believe that there's seemingly very little difference between the two.
I think Cotic's solid reputation, coupled with the fact that the Bfe is £56 cheaper, has made the difference, especially as I need to update my seatpost and headset. Dat green, as well.

Thanks for your answer.

lawman

RichBrooks wrote:

Yeah, that pretty much follows what I've heard - I've been researching both bikes for a while, and the delving I've done has lead me to believe that there's seemingly very little difference between the two.
I think Cotic's solid reputation, coupled with the fact that the Bfe is £56 cheaper, has made the difference, especially as I need to update my seatpost and headset. Dat green, as well.

Thanks for your answer.

Cotic have a great reputation, they've been building hardtails for a long time and their customer support from what I've heard is great. The green is awesome, it's bright not overly so, just looks classy and it makes a change from my usual black bikes

jops

Hopefully the problems with the 631s you mentioned are one-offs, and not indicative of a wider problem with the build quality - Stanton have built up an enviable reputation in a relatively short space of time, and it'd be a real shame if that was torpedoed.

lawman

jops wrote:

Hopefully the problems with the 631s you mentioned are one-offs, and not indicative of a wider problem with the build quality - Stanton have built up an enviable reputation in a relatively short space of time, and it'd be a real shame if that was torpedoed.

Tbh I think the problem is more to do with how the frames are transported. I had an 18" frame and it was crammed into a box marked 16.5", my guess due to the area of damage on all the frames I've seen and heard of that the frames are being damaged in transit as there is no protection or room as the seattube is practically piercing the boxes. I guess they use one sized box to save money and for ease, but it does mean that stuff like this could happen. I have to as nice as the bikes are and as nicely as they probably ride (I never had chance to find out) I'd be loathed to buy from them, which is a real shame as the bikes have a great rep for there rode quality but I went the best part of 3 months without a bike and endless amounts of hassle and no bike, no matter how well it rides is worth that.

jops

Ah, so it's the shipping conditions and not the manufacture itself? That's weird. Having spoken to a few people who have dealt with Dan that seems a very strange thing to leave to chance, considering how on the ball and considerate he seems to be. I'd find it hard to believe if he hasn't had 18" sized boxes made up as well as 16.5", that seems a very standard thing.

Also, I've noticed that he's recently expressed frustration on the Stanton FB page at the time it's taking for his new batch of 631s to arrive (he's currently out of stock), so it seems as if he doesn't have complete control of that end of things. In a way, it's reassuring that the fault isn't with the way the frames are put together, but if they're all being wedged into tiny boxes then that is definitely an issue that needs to be sorted out - if as many frames are being knackered in-transit as it appears, then nobody wins. Customer is annoyed at Stanton/shipping firm and seeks refund, Stanton lose custom and has to chase up shipping firm = shipping firm potentially lose Stanton's custom, Stanton have to find another shipping firm. Nightmare.

Irrespective of all that, I'm going to be ordering a 631 (in 18"!) in the next few months. I can understand why you got your money back and went for the Bfe instead, but I'm between sizes with that bike (medium is too short for me, large is long enough but doesn't have enough standover height for my liking), and the Slackline is the closest to perfect geometry (for me, at least), that I've seen so far.

Needless to say, I'll let you all know how I get on.

lawman

jops wrote:

Ah, so it's the shipping conditions and not the manufacture itself? That's weird. Having spoken to a few people who have dealt with Dan that seems a very strange thing to leave to chance, considering how on the ball and considerate he seems to be.

Having said that, I've noticed that he's recently expressed frustration on the Stanton FB page at the time it's taking for his new batch of 631s to arrive (he's currently out of stock), so it seems as if he doesn't have complete control of that end of things. In a way, it's reassuring that the fault isn't with the way the frames are put together, but if they're all being wedged into tiny boxes then that is definitely an issue that needs to be sorted out - if as many frames are being knackered in-transit as it appears, then nobody wins. Customer is annoyed at Stanton/shipping firm and seeks refund, Stanton lose custom and has to chase up shipping firm = shipping firm potentially lose Stanton's custom, Stanton have to find another shipping firm.

Irrespective of all that, I'm going to be ordering a 631 (in 18"!) in the next few months. Needless to say, I'll let you all know how I get on.

That's what I figure, the tubing is made by Reynolds and if there was a fault with a tube, they wouldn't let it out the factory, it's quality stuff. Both my frames and the one I've heard of all had paint chips and damage around the top of te seat tube and the boxes had nearly been pierced, you could see exactly where the frame had been. As the seat tube is exposed and relatively thin, I don't think it would take much of a hit to damage it, so I think it's definitely a transit rather than manufacturing issue. I have to admit my dealings with Dan were mixed, I won't go into detail but I've certainly had better service from other manufacturers. If the frame comes to you without damage, you'll have a great bike, I was pretty gutted I had to ask for a refund, having looked forward to building it and then having so many issues having not even ridden it was pretty gutting to say the least. The bright side is I ended up with the BFe and so far I'm loving it!

jops

Yeah, all of this is enough to put the frighteners up anyone, isn't it? These aren't the sort of concerns you should have to be mindful of when buying a new frame - especially when you're laying out this sort of money - but I'm still going to risk it. What can I say, I like the look of the bike too much.

If I end up going through the same nightmarish scenario you had to, then I'll follow suit and get a Cotic. :P

stubs

I bought a Pipedream steel frame to build up for a friend a few years back and it came in a chunky box with a plastic top hat shaped bung in the seat tube, padding on the BB and headtube. I reckon you could have bounced it off the back of a lorry and it would have been fine. Seems a shame that skimping on packaging has cost Stanton a sale they are gorgeous looking bikes and I was so tempted myself before I got my Vitus.

Twelly

I am so close to pressing the button on a big green BFe...

Whats size is yours? How long is the headtube? (I know it says on the Cotic site but just wanted to check accuracy)

BigAl

TwellySmat wrote:

I am so close to pressing the button on a big green BFe...

Want it

Need it

Do it

Have it

:twisted:

lawman

stubs wrote:

I bought a Pipedream steel frame to build up for a friend a few years back and it came in a chunky box with a plastic top hat shaped bung in the seat tube, padding on the BB and headtube. I reckon you could have bounced it off the back of a lorry and it would have been fine. Seems a shame that skimping on packaging has cost Stanton a sale they are gorgeous looking bikes and I was so tempted myself before I got my Vitus.

Yeah the Slackline didn't come with one of those, the BFe and every other frame I've bought have, small detail but could be the difference between the frame arriving in usable condition and it not!

lawman

TwellySmat wrote:

I am so close to pressing the button on a big green BFe...

Whats size is yours? How long is the headtube? (I know it says on the Cotic site but just wanted to check accuracy)

Mine's a medium (17.5") and the headtube is bang on 110mm, plus around 21mm for the nukeproof headset I'm using.

Do it!

Twelly

All depends on whether the fork I would use will fit! Maybe nexr month if it does...

lawman

TwellySmat wrote:

All depends on whether the fork I would use will fit! Maybe nexr month if it does...

Hope it does, you'll get a great bike!

lawman

Had a couple more rides on this now and I've got to say it's exceeding my expectations! Had a quick afternoon sessioning the local DH trails and it felt really good, stable on the steeps and nimble on the twisty sections. It can hold a line really well and for my admittedly limited DH skills it's great fun!



Quick photo one of the lads caught of me, was pretty darn wet under tyre but no offs for me this time

Took it out to Nant Y Arian yesterday for some xc trails and again I was really impressed, climbs well, feels very planted on descents and you can feel the steel take the sting out of the trail, it's infinitely more comfortable than my old 456C.

I did have a slight mishap on the very first section of singletrack, got a pinch flat half way down and on closer inspection I must have caught a rock pretty sharpish and found a fairly large ding in the rear Crest Can actually see the bead of the tyre where it's dented :oops: Need to remember I have a little less travel at the back than the Mojo!! Seeing as this is the second Crest I've dinged recently, this one and the rear on the Mojo, I'm gonna do the sensible thing and get both rear wheels re-laced to Arch EX's, JustRidingAlong have them on offer atm which is a bonus, so it's not gonna cost mega bucks for a bit of extra insurance now I'm starting to push them a bit harder than their Xc remit!!

allthegearnoidea

really do love the Green colour builds on these, great to se another full sussed rider being happy with the steelyness too,
Nice picture btw,

lawman

allthegearnoidea wrote:

really do love the Green colour builds on these, great to se another full sussed rider being happy with the steelyness too,
Nice picture btw,

It is such a nice colour, as a fan of green it suits me down to the ground Looks like they're putting the green as an option on new Rocket frames as well, would like to have a go on one!

Much as I love my susser it's nice to ride the hardtail every now and then, especially this time of the year with all the mud, lots of fun sliding around and it's a darn sight easier to clean as well!

Twelly

Lawman where did you get the green rim decals from? I have checked Slik Graphics and they dont seem to have them on the website and more.

lawman

TwellySmat wrote:

Lawman where did you get the green rim decals from? I have checked Slik Graphics and they dont seem to have them on the website and more.

I got mine from Slik. They're still producing them but you need to do it by putting a custom order worth £15 in your basket and then say you want Stan's *insert rim name*, wheel size and then which colour you want. The green from slik is a reasonable match and they're great quality. Gutted I've had to rip one of mine off to better assess the dent in my crest, will be ordering some for the Arch Ex's I've got to replace the crests, they've had a battering recently do thought it best to go for a burlier rim for both back wheels on the Cotic and Ibis

Twelly

Ok nice one cheers. Yeah im bringing the crests over from my other bike so im just going to run them untill they pop. Then ill look at something non-stans probably, sick of breaking fingers trying to squeeze tyres on the Crests!

lawman

TwellySmat wrote:

Ok nice one cheers. Yeah im bringing the crests over from my other bike so im just going to run them untill they pop. Then ill look at something non-stans probably, sick of breaking fingers trying to squeeze tyres on the Crests!

Yep they are sure are a bugger to get tyres on/off!! One of the reasons I love running them tubeless I really am a big fan of them though, they're very light and until recently when I started abusing them more than I probably should, they've proved really tough and reliable, main reason I've gone for Arch Ex's, basically a tougher version of the Crests and found them online in white for just £43 each

The Northern Monkey

Must stop looking at this thread. Mrs will lynch me if I get another bike before we have a garage to put more bikes in

lawman

The Northern Monkey wrote:

Must stop looking at this thread. Mrs will lynch me if I get another bike before we have a garage to put more bikes in

Do it, now I say!!!

ej2320

That bike looks awesome

If I had the money I'd love to have a Cotic as a second bike, it looks seriously pinned on that wet mud!

Out of interest what brand is that long sleeve jersey? I'm looking to get one myself

lawman

ej2320 wrote:

That bike looks awesome

If I had the money I'd love to have a Cotic as a second bike, it looks seriously pinned on that wet mud!

Out of interest what brand is that long sleeve jersey? I'm looking to get one myself

Cheers I was certainly really impressed by it that day, felt really planted on the DH runs, yet to take it on some of the harder tracks but first impressions are really good

The jersey is from The Cycle Jersey I think, we had them made up for our uni club as they're our colours, so not sure if you'd be able to get one without our sponsorship on. Kinda awkward anyways cos I don't even run conti rubber despite being sponsored by them

fizik

lawman wrote:

TwellySmat wrote:

Ok nice one cheers. Yeah im bringing the crests over from my other bike so im just going to run them untill they pop. Then ill look at something non-stans probably, sick of breaking fingers trying to squeeze tyres on the Crests!

Yep they are sure are a bugger to get tyres on/off!! One of the reasons I love running them tubeless I really am a big fan of them though, they're very light and until recently when I started abusing them more than I probably should, they've proved really tough and reliable, main reason I've gone for Arch Ex's, basically a tougher version of the Crests and found them online in white for just £43 each

Can't go wrong with arch ex's, light and very strong, had mine on a few bikes, id happily race xc on them or take them to the alps. Now got them on my BFe in (white too )

ilovedirt

I've never dinged a rim *touch wood*. This means one of two things (I'd like to think the latter!):

1. I need to ride harder

or

2. Having ridden several hardtails for a good while, I'm fairly easy on the wheels. The last one (Ragley Bagger) made me want to get air over literally anything I could! You need to learn to ride a bit lighter on it maybe - it's faster to gap over the rough stuff, rather than plough right through it, and your bike will thank you for it too

lawman

ilovedirt wrote:

I've never dinged a rim *touch wood*. This means one of two things (I'd like to think the latter!):

1. I need to ride harder

or

2. Having ridden several hardtails for a good while, I'm fairly easy on the wheels. The last one (Ragley Bagger) made me want to get air over literally anything I could! You need to learn to ride a bit lighter on it maybe - it's faster to gap over the rough stuff, rather than plough right through it, and your bike will thank you for it too

Yeah I think a combo of uplifting on Xc rims in case of the Ibis and forgetting I'm on a hardtail on the Cotic has led to the dings tbh, the one on the HD isn't too bad, more of a flat spot, but the BFe is a proper bad one, you can see the bead of the tyre where I hit whatever the hell it was that caused it!! Hopefully the Arch Ex's will fair a little better