Nelson Mandela

Southgate

Lookyhere wrote:

the ANC blew up a church full of whites

Er, you mean the headquarters of the South African Air Force. It's not a church for heaven's sake, it's a military base on Church Street! The clue is in the name.

what you don't grasp is that it was international isolation that bought the whites to the negotiating table and not a few bombs and shootings

I think you'll find my personal knowledge and experience of the anti-apartheid struggle is deeper than yours, to put it mildly.

There were several interconnected factors that led to the ANC victory.

1. Armed struggle. This had the effect of strengthening the morale the ANC and the people in the townships, and was a big psychological weapon against the regime. It ensured the whites were no longer insulated from the consequences of apartheid. Hitherto, the regime was able murder and torture its opponents with impunity, and the media was prevented by censorship laws from reporting on it. The ANC's military campaign was always subordinate to the political campaign.

What you almost certainly don't know is that there was a secret gun running operation organised from London using white British citizens which transported over 40 tons of weapons across the South African border over a six year period in preparation for an armed uprising. The uprising was only averted because apartheid was ended by negotiation.

2. Mass action in the townships to make the country ungovernable, including illegal strikes, defiance of the pass laws, school boycotts, illegal demonstrations etc. By the 1980s, the population was in open revolt and the regime could only cling on to power by resorting to naked violence and increased oppression. Despite heavy censorship, the reality of apartheid began to leak out to the world.

3. The decisive defeat of the South African army in Angola at the hands of the Cubans. This spelled the beginning of the end for the apartheid regime, and is hailed by Mandela (and historians) as the turning point in the struggle.

4. International isolation brought about by a ANC-led co-ordinated campaign of boycotts and disinvestment. It was successful precisely because the ANC was fighting on all fronts and had brought the horrors of apartheid onto the global stage.
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The reason apartheid was ended through negotiations, rather than through a bloody uprising, was because the international situation had changed beyond recognition following the collapse of the USSR and the socialist block. The regime, big business and the Western powers no longer feared socialism, and the ANC was forced into a compromise which ensured full political rights, but at the expense of sidelining the Freedom Charter (common ownership of major industries and land etc) and ensuring that South Africa remained safe for capitalism. That compromise lies at the roots of the continuing vast inequality that characterises South Africa.

Lookyhere

You are correct - the church massacre I referred too was the st james church shootings, carried out by the APLA, only 11 killed, many more injured, my mistake :oops:- no doubt you can defend their actions too ?
the subsequent forgiveness of the victims families towards their attackers was humbling.

But how does the side lining of the freedom charter excuse the in equalities in SA ? Zuma's salary, his life style ($15m on his house) and that of almost all the ANC leadership is a result of greed and nothing more, as shown in most African leaders since the collapse of colonialism.

You have not addressed the lack of political freedom there or the poverty or the lack of education for blacks, instead, you practice your patronising tone, quite similar to the attitude displayed by SA whites toward the blacks.... a slight change of belief and you d fit in around any SA white dinner party, Boss.

Southgate

Lookyhere wrote:

You are correct - the church massacre I referred too was the st james church shootings, carried out by the APLA, only 11 killed, many more injured, my mistake :oops:- no doubt you can defend their actions too?

The APLA was the military wing of the PAC, an organisation that achieved one quarter of one percent of the vote at the last election. It is not the ANC, so your accusation is (for the second time) without merit or meaning.

In fact one of the reasons cited by Mandela for the ANC embarking on armed struggle was that the regime had made a violent response absolutely inevitable. Either that violence is organised and channeled by a responsible non-racial liberation movement, or South Africa would descend into a bloody race war with the sort of bleak future that ensures.

But again, out of all the many atrocities and daily humiliations committed in South Africa by the white apartheid regime against black people, you focus on the tiny handful of white casualties. Why is that, exactly? Did you expect the regime, in fact any regime, would be able to enslave millions of people with no blowback? None at all? :shock:

The South African whites are the luckiest people in human history. A few dozen got killed, and the rest get forgiven and also get to keep their swimming pools and servants. Not a bad result after decades of murder, torture and exploitation of their fellow humans on the grounds of racial supremacy, eh?

As for my supposedly patronising tone, well it's hard not to be condescending to a guy who prefaces his remarks with a patronising and condescending "what you fail to grasp is..." and then goes on to get most of his facts wrong. :roll: It's a classic case of projecting your own MO onto others.

the playing mantis

Will SA go the same way as zim ultimately? Why have sa not curbed mugabe?