Power2max Powermeters

oldhairylegs

After a half decent race season this year, I have somehow ended up going up to 2nd Cat and think that I probably need to train with a bit more purpose and focus if I am not going to get my butt handed to me at every race next year. :shock:

Training with power seems to be the way forward so I am seriously considering getting a Power2max power meter; I would be very interested to hear the views and opinions of anybody using one of these.

Please don't turn it into a debate about the pros and cons of using power meters though!

Thanks

OHL

buckles

They're alright

FatTed

I have the Quarq 22, because of better back up incase of problems.
see these reviews
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-reviews/power-meters
and as posted on the forum before
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.co.nz/2013/0 ... meter.html

stueys

Type s is out in feb which is a bit lighter.

okgo

The latest ones as far as I can see are no better or worse than anything else out there and certainly do the job very well, a few people I know would have them over a Quarq. Who cares about the weight!

twotyred

I've had a P2M since 2011 and its performed reliably. If I needed another power meter today I'd probably get another P2M as its £300 cheaper than the Quark.

skinnyrider

ANyone hating on P2M are not worth listening to.

Their price point is brilliant.
They're accurate.
They're great.

There is no reason to get anything else.

dgstewart

I've just got one last month and it's been excellent so far. I chose the P2M meter with the Rotor 3D+ cranks so I could move it between my winter bike (threaded BB) and my summer/race bike (BB30).

I could have waited for the newer Type S which would be lighter and cheaper (model for my race bike's Specialized FACT cranks, so no cranks needed), but that would have meant waiting until Feb/Mar time (I wanted to get training with it through the winter), but more significantly I couldn't swap it between bikes (and that was one of my top criteria).

I think the weight difference between this and my original Specialized FACT crankset is around 170g extra, so pretty small. I'm hoping the benefit from a more dedicated/focused training plan is likely to overcome 170g ;-).

I also know two other guys who trained and raced with the P2M meter last season with no problems at all. I partly opted for this meter on the basis of their experiences and recommendations.

buckles

skinnyrider wrote:

ANyone hating on P2M are not worth listening to.

Yes but people will always promote stuff they chose and dismiss stuff that they didn't, even if there's nothing wrong with the stuff they didn't choose. Unfortunately objective reviews are few and far between

dgstewart

Buckles wrote:

Yes but people will always promote stuff they chose and dismiss stuff that they didn't, even if there's nothing wrong with the stuff they didn't choose. Unfortunately objective reviews are few and far between

Yep, true in many cases. I can't say anything about other PMs as this is my first (hopefully not buying any more for a long time, given the price of them!). All I can say is it's been flawless so far.

I know others with PowerTaps and most are happy with those (one packed in after a month, but replacement works fine). One guy has a PowerTap and a P2M and they seem to correlate well.

amaferanga

Buckles wrote:

They're alright

Do you have one?

buckles

amaferanga wrote:

Buckles wrote:

They're alright

Do you have one?

Have had the FSA Gossamer one since xmas eve 2012. I haven't scientifically tested it, so anything I say about it is completely subjective.

This is the problem when asking for advice about power meters... if they work without any obvious problems, how can anyone seriously comment about how good they are?

Aside from the Stages semi-power meter there is only one I wouldn't recommend and that's only due to the fact I prefer a crank based power meter for practical reasons, and the cost of replacing the inevitable broken torque tube outside of the warranty period is a p*sstake

lukasran

Buckles wrote:

Yes but people will always promote stuff they chose and dismiss stuff that they didn't

hence your stages bashing is irrelevant. i have one and even if it was awful i would defend it to the death because it cost me a wedge. but seriously they all seem to work very well when reviewed together has anyone heard of a damning review of any that wasn't just opinion. boring post but true.

Grill

skinnyrider wrote:

ANyone hating on P2M are not worth listening to.

Their price point is brilliant.
They're accurate.
They're great.

There is no reason to get anything else.

This. Plus you can swap between bikes, rings, and anything else you like without any hassle. Only a PowerTap can rival it for ease of use.

buckles

lukasran wrote:

Buckles wrote:

Yes but people will always promote stuff they chose and dismiss stuff that they didn't

hence your stages bashing is irrelevant. i have one and even if it was awful i would defend it to the death because it cost me a wedge. but seriously they all seem to work very well when reviewed together has anyone heard of a damning review of any that wasn't just opinion. boring post but true.

I haven't been 'bashing' the Stages PM at all, I just think it's way overpriced for what it is.

Grill

madasahattersley wrote:

Grill wrote:

skinnyrider wrote:

ANyone hating on P2M are not worth listening to.

Their price point is brilliant.
They're accurate.
They're great.

There is no reason to get anything else.

This. Plus you can swap between bikes, rings, and anything else you like without any hassle. Only a PowerTap can rival it for ease of use.

Apart from the Quarq is just as easy to use...

Unless you have a SRAM S975 or CinQo Saturn...

Grill

From Quarq's FAQ page:

'Recalibration
Do I need to send in my SRAM S975 or CinQo Saturn power meter if I swap the chainrings?
If you are replacing worn rings with a new pair of the same model, no recalibration is necessary. If you are swapping from Road to TT or Road to CX rings, or Brand X to Brand Y, or converting to a single speed with or without a bash guard, recalibration is highly recommended. You can do this using an accurately measured weight and Qalvin's Calibrate Slope routine. If you do not have access to Qalvin, you can return the power meter to Quarq for inspection and factory calibration.'

Grill

See now this is going to turn into a groupset slagging match!

wavefront

One thing to bear in mind, is the even though Power2Max meters are talked about as being 'budget', the one I just ordered still came to about £1150 (Rotor 3D plus, Praxis chainrings, bolts, BB30 bearings,tax, and shipping) and I wouldn't call that cheap! Though I'll concede, cheaper than a Quarq.

I looked at Quarq originally and was prepared to pay a little more, but no-one had a bad word to say about Power2Max so I went for it. I'm hoping they are all they're cracked up to be (I'm sure they will be) and can't wait for it to arrive from Germany. Oh the other thing, is that they still only take a bank transfer - but so far it all seems fine with their communication.

jibberjim

madasahattersley wrote:

This. Plus you can swap between bikes, rings, and anything else you like without any hassle. Only a PowerTap can rival it for ease of use.

Apart from the Quarq is just as easy to use...[/quote]

Well, not quite as you need magnets moved / installed on the bikes for the Quarq, which you don't for a p2max, and as noted the ring changing is said to be different.

But both of those are effectively irrelevant to all users. Pretty much all power meters are fine, there are lots of problems with all types, some P2max's are truly awful - but other than one early model with excessive drift all have been replaced. Similarly I know of Quarqs that have problems, again all replaced and also there's the advantage that the warranty is transferrable.

The 60rpm limit of Quarqs is what rules it out for me, and it's not its fault, but the head units and analysis software currently available that are tied to 1second recording rather the event recording that Quarq relies on. P2max's 20rpm (or PowerTap's very low kph are much preferred for me) But that's because that's the type of inaccuracy I dislike - others will have different requirements, and there really isn't anything different.

Disclaimer - This house has 3 PowerTaps and 1 P2max in it.

TakeTurns

I already had a rotor crank so the P2M was ideal as I could just slip the device straight in.

Relatively cheap, yet on par performance wise.

oldhairylegs

Thanks very much for all your opinions and very helpful comments guys.
Some very useful pointers and a pretty good debate too.

I think I will go for the P2M Rotor 3D version; just need to decide on the 110 or 130 BCD.

Cheers all

OHL

Grill

What's it for? Personally I'd go for 110bcd unless it will be used exclusively for TTs or you don't do any hills. Pretty much all the cat2 riders I know run a 50/36 with 12-25.

dgstewart

No probs. When you say Rotor 3D, do you mean the basic 3D or the 3D+? The 3D+ is 150 euros more but is more compatible with different BB types - it's a BB30, but with the Rotor BSA30 BB it will fit threaded BBs too. This is what I went for, but if you only have threaded frames and don't expect to get a BB30 any time soon then the 3D would be fine (and cheaper).

As for 110BCD or 130BCD, it doesn't really make that much difference as you can play around with cassettes easily enough. I run a 53/39, as that what my race bike was to start with and it's been fine with an 11-28 cassette on the race bike and an 11-32 on the winter bike (plus I had two sets of 53/39 chainrings) . I don't know any serious racers who run 50/34 or 50/36 compacts, but that's not too say there aren't any. If I was choosing from scratch, maybe I'd be tempted with the 110BCD 52/36 "pro-compact", as that seems an ideal balance between the two.

Whatever you choose, I'm sure it will do the job fine and be great fun!

oldhairylegs

I do most of my training and general riding on a compact, although my road race bike has a standard chain set (I don't do TTs), so I just need to work out which way to go.

Was tending towards the compact version and both of your comments tend to reinforce this. I don't expect to be moving to BB30 any time soon, so will probably just go for the 3D and the 52/36 chain ring option would seem to be the ideal solution.

Many thanks again guys.

Grill

I have the normal 3D as all my frames are either PF86 or BSA (I absolutely detest bb30). I run super compact on one of my bikes and do like it. I would disagree that serious racers use standard and would counter that it's only really useful for strong sprinters.
Realistically, you need to know what your goals are as cat 2 is a whole different kettle of fish than 3/4. If you think you have what it takes to be a good cat 1 or even get to Elite then yeah, a standard might be on the cards, but you need to think about how often you spin larger than a 50-12. My guess would be hardly and by keeping the ratios tight you'll be a lot mor efficient. Besides I'm pretty sure you can get a 53 for a 110bcd if you really need it.

oldhairylegs

Grill wrote:

....If you think you have what it takes to be a good cat 1 or even get to Elite then yeah, a standard might be on the cards

Only in my dreams Grill!

At my age, if I could get enough points to keep my 2nd Cat, then I would be more than happy with that.

ollie51

+1 for P2M, cheaper than a quarq, just as good and you don't have to use a GXP bottom bracket and that can only be a good thing... Rotor cranks are fantastic too, limitless in BB type, light and durable.

James H-S

Grill wrote:

What's it for? Personally I'd go for 110bcd unless it will be used exclusively for TTs or you don't do any hills. Pretty much all the cat2 riders I know run a 50/36 with 12-25.

I honestly only know of a few cat 2 riders who ride with compacts. In some races youd just be spinning out without a 53/11. Ideally for racing you want a 53/39 and an 11/23 or 11/25 cassette.

Also regarding powermeters your better off buying a secondhand srm that a new power2max

amaferanga

If you get a 110bcd crank you can run 53/39 rings or compact rings - you can get 53/39 rings in 110bcd. 130bcd means you're limited to a minimum 38 inner, which may be an issue if you want to do some proper mountain accents.

You don't need 53/11 to race as a 2nd Cat in chippers.

I'm curious as to how a used SRM is better than a new P2M. It's another option, but not sure how you could say it's better.

bigpikle

I bought a new Quarq Elsa and a mate bought a P2M Rotor 3D at pretty much the same time. Both have been superb and in countless tests side by side and alongside my PT wheel they have been utterly comparable and consistent. You could argue the Quarq is slightly easier as its an easier chainset to swap over, but thats simply a factor of the Quarq spider versus the Rotor spider.

I'm in the market for a 2nd power meter exclusively for my TT bike and will get a P2M next time. Perfectly happy with my Quarq but why spend all the extra?