385,000 Young Workers from Eastern Europe

RideOnTime
RideOnTime Posts: 4,712
edited January 2014 in The cake stop
Based on some American think-tank model the government thinks 385,000 Romanians and Bulgarians will come to Britain from the 1st January. I'm not sure on what possible basis they can make these estimates. I can't really see that they can have any idea. I guess people will come in connected groups depnding on who they know here and what prospects they've got in their home country.

The question is does it matter? 300 Polish workers live just down the road during the summer and except when they all go shopping at the same time in Tesco on Sunday you wouldn't have any idea they were there. I have never seen any of them in the Dr's.
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Comments

  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    I hope some come to Salisbury. I have some gardening for them to do.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    RideOnTime wrote:
    The question is does it matter? 300 Polish workers live just down the road during the summer and except when they all go shopping at the same time in Tesco on Sunday you wouldn't have any idea they were there. I have never seen any of them in the Dr's.
    ... buying value white bread... Mrs Bomp actually treated 2 Polish girls for constipation in A&E one time
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    If the country is relying on my 17 year old and his mates to put things to rights then sad days are ahead...
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    How dumb those who think we can just let everyone in and have complete free movement. We live on a small island with finite resources, space, the south east us bursting at the seams as is, and the green belt is being destroyed at a rate of knots. Stop uncontrolled immigration and you go a long way to solving lots of issues. Just let in who we want/ need, when we want/need. I really don't care how crappy their lives maybe in their home countries, that's not my concern, that's just the way it is, if people ate so bothered about that, give your money away to those less well off than you. The whole situation is ridiculous. It won't impact me in employment terms as I work in a skilled white collar role, but I have every sympathy for those it will effect job wise, and I don't mean the benefit addicted, never worked british underclass.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    If immigration wasn't profitable they would have put a plug on it ages ago... t is a fact of life and a universal truth that immigrants contribute more and use less public money, despite popular belief. You lot should really stop reading the Daily Mail... :wink:
    And let's not even mention what restaurants would be like without foreign influx... have you ever had a meal in Wales?
    left the forum March 2023
  • team47b
    team47b Posts: 6,425
    the playing mantis wrote:
    How dumb those who think we can just let everyone in

    That'll be the government then :D
    my isetta is a 300cc bike
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    That's why it's so easy to get into Canada and Australia...it's nothing to do with the ruling elites having a liberal socialist bent is it...
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    team47b wrote:
    the playing mantis wrote:
    How dumb those who think we can just let everyone in

    That'll be the government then :D
    Easy said when you didn't vote them in.
    Hands up those who did.

    I reckon those with most to lose from this are the Poles since none of the indigenous people seem to want the jobs.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • team47b
    team47b Posts: 6,425
    I just meant that TPM seems to be a bit harsh towards the party he voted in.
    my isetta is a 300cc bike
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    Yes but my vote was tactical. Complete waste of time though as the Tories are no better than the others. In every PR election I vote nige. When I remember.
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,516
    But you still get idiots magnifying fears to fit their own agendas and the fears are ill informed and narrow.

    The American Farage?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 34797.html



    Personally I rather live in a society where those that want to work can get on and those that don't can go the same little island where I would like to put all bigots and extremists.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    Yeah farage is a bigotted extremist....

    Hope you don't mind slowmart, but I'm coming round your house to eat your food and kip in the spare room. So are my 35 m8s. Hope you have room. We don't like our houses and think yours looks better.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    the playing mantis wrote:
    That's why it's so easy to get into Canada and Australia...it's nothing to do with the ruling elites having a liberal socialist bent is it...

    Canada and Australia aren't in the EU. The EU is committed to a single market which includes a single labour market. It's nothing to do with the "liberal socialist elite".
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    No sh it... And why have they done nothing to even attempt to extricate from or amend the terms of the relevant treaties/clauses? Why did the gov not take measures thsy they could have within eu law, to restrict the take on of people from the newly acceded states?

    Labour didn't admit allowing such immigration as a means of social engineering did they...
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,516
    the playing mantis wrote:
    Yeah farage is a bigotted extremist....

    Hope you don't mind slowmart, but I'm coming round your house to eat your food and kip in the spare room. So are my 35 m8s. Hope you have room. We don't like our houses and think yours looks better.


    Or you want to get on, take the better opportunities that are on offer and provide a better existence for yourself and your family.

    I'm not saying your wrong but the majority want to succeed and improve. Yes there will be wasters but I look at the lifestyle choice of many with a UK passport who choose to claim or its not worth working as the benefits accrue to a similar amount.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • rhext
    rhext Posts: 1,639
    As far as Immigration is concerned, I'm very much in favour of preserving our national character.

    Thankfully, it doesn't take much historical research to realise that accommodating and then adapting to successive waves of immigration is a key part of our national character and we wouldn't be who we are without it. Long may that continue!
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    That's fine, but I'm doing it round your house with all my mates, so hope you don't mind family being squeezed out. Us building another bedroom on the lovely garden etc etc.

    Look I don't blame the immigrants, we would all do what they do if we could. The country is a soft touch, and it's the governments fault. It shouldn't be allowed. Maybe if we were a huge country with masses of space well under capacity infrastructure system and resources and jobs going begging fine. But we are not. Likewise I agree re the work shy indigenous population. Limits on immigration should closely be followed by proper benefit reform and shift in the culture if those reliant fir no valid reason on benefits.

    None of this will happen. Eventually it will be too late as this is a small island, you physically won't be any room left. When is enough enough? The quality of life of those already here will fall as to make it undesirable for more people to come, but by that stage the southeast will be one huge conurbation.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    rhext wrote:
    As far as Immigration is concerned, I'm very much in favour of preserving our national character.
    Thankfully, it doesn't take much historical research to realise that accommodating and then adapting to successive waves of immigration is a key part of our national character and we wouldn't be who we are without it. Long may that continue!

    The numbers coming into the uk are way over anything historical.

    How many more do you think we can accommodate? 1million, 5million? or maybe 120million extra ?

    Yesterday we learnt that uk educational standards are falling even further - how hard must it be for a teacher to teach in classes where many don't speak English and what effect does that have on the kids who want to get on?

    TPM is spot on :)
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    mamba80 wrote:
    how hard must it be for a teacher to teach in classes where many don't speak English and what effect does that have on the kids who want to get on?
    Errr, in more than one of my classes it's the Polish kids who seem to want to get on...
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    I blame the buck...err teachers!
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    In seriousness though, they may be mire motivated to learn maths, but that's not the point. If we can shift the feckless natives in some kind if exchange program id have no issue really. The issue is population growth, and all the associated issues that brings, that are magnified in an already densely populated island.
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,516
    the playing mantis wrote:
    In seriousness though, they may be mire motivated to learn maths, but that's not the point. If we can shift the feckless natives in some kind if exchange program id have no issue really. The issue is population growth, and all the associated issues that brings, that are magnified in an already densely populated island.


    http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o ... on_density



    The facts speak differently.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    the playing mantis wrote:
    In seriousness though, they may be mire motivated to learn maths, but that's not the point. If we can shift the feckless natives in some kind if exchange program id have no issue really. The issue is population growth, and all the associated issues that brings, that are magnified in an already densely populated island.
    Only 12.5% is urban. :shock:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

    Although no doubt that figure would rise if Scotland went independent.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    bompington wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    how hard must it be for a teacher to teach in classes where many don't speak English and what effect does that have on the kids who want to get on?
    Errr, in more than one of my classes it's the Polish kids who seem to want to get on...

    not all migrants from the EU are as fluent as your Polish kids.
    but the pt is, the uk's infrastructure is limited and crumbling and we ve not the money to build it up in the timescales that mass immigration requires.

    If you work or have a child in a state secondary school or drive or have used the NHS then you ll know this.
  • MaxwellBygraves
    MaxwellBygraves Posts: 1,353
    Slowmart wrote:
    the playing mantis wrote:
    In seriousness though, they may be mire motivated to learn maths, but that's not the point. If we can shift the feckless natives in some kind if exchange program id have no issue really. The issue is population growth, and all the associated issues that brings, that are magnified in an already densely populated island.


    http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o ... on_density



    The facts speak differently.

    The truth has no place in this thread, just like facts have no place within an organized religion.
    "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,516
    mamba80 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:

    not all migrants from the EU are as fluent as your Polish kids.
    but the pt is, the uk's infrastructure is limited and crumbling and we ve not the money to build it up in the timescales that mass immigration requires.

    If you work or have a child in a state secondary school or drive or have used the NHS then you ll know this.

    Can we blame migrants for the rain as well?
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    I've got some landscaping needs doing in Thatcham, that many of them should get it done in a couple of hours !
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    Slowmart wrote:
    the playing mantis wrote:
    In seriousness though, they may be mire motivated to learn maths, but that's not the point. If we can shift the feckless natives in some kind if exchange program id have no issue really. The issue is population growth, and all the associated issues that brings, that are magnified in an already densely populated island.


    http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o ... on_density



    The facts speak differently.

    What on earth are you talking about?! The UK is 3rd in Europe behind the low countries. Take England on it's own, as this is what in referring to and where the majority of people cone to. It might be even higher.

    As I said I will be round your gaff later on with all my m8s hope you have enough space for all of us, not to mention bathroom facilities etc.
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    MaxwellBygraves wrote:
    [quore="Slowmart"]
    the playing mantis wrote:
    In seriousness though, they may be mire motivated to learn maths, but that's not the point. If we can shift the feckless natives in some kind if exchange program id have no issue really. The issue is population growth, and all the associated issues that brings, that are magnified in an already densely populated island.


    http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o ... on_density



    The facts speak differently.

    The truth has no place in this thread, just like facts have no place within an organized religion.[/quote]


    What truth? The wiki link that actually supports my point...

    Or the truth that as an island with physical borders, there is a finite amount if space...

    Or the truth that the countryside is being built on to accommodate new houses, due to population growth caused by migration.

    Or the truth that population growth is the biggest issue the planet faces?
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Conveniently ignoring my post.
    From which this comes:-
    "The urban landscape accounts for 10.6% of England, 1.9% of Scotland, 3.6% of Northern Ireland and 4.1% of Wales.
    Put another way, that means almost 93% of the UK is not urban. But even that isn't the end of the story because urban is not the same as built on.
    In urban England, for example, the researchers found that just over half the land (54%) in our towns and cities is greenspace - parks, allotments, sports pitches and so on.
    Furthermore, domestic gardens account for another 18% of urban land use; rivers, canals, lakes and reservoirs an additional 6.6%.
    Their conclusion?
    In England, "78.6% of urban areas is designated as natural rather than built". Since urban only covers a tenth of the country, this means that the proportion of England's landscape which is built on is…
    Scotland and the North-East embrace paving
    … 2.27%.
    Yes. According to the most detailed analysis ever conducted, almost 98% of England is, in their word, natural."

    I agree with you on World population growth. More to do with resources than space though.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.

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