disc road wheelset ideas

giant_man
giant_man Posts: 6,878
edited December 2013 in Road buying advice
So I am looking for a suitable wheelset for disc road frameset with shimano 10 speed groupset.

I'm thinking Stans NoTubes ZTR Alpha 340 disk rims with Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs + Sapim D Light spokes - comments/opinions?
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Comments

  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I think you mean the ZTR alpha 400 disc rim. The distributor does not show the rim you mention on the b2b site.

    The only other rims that I would suggest are Velocity A23 with non machined sidewall and H plus Son archetype's. The ryde rims have not landed yet so difficult to suggest those until they do. Personally I would use the Novatec D7111/D712 SB hubs - lighter and cheaper and fine for road use (and off road) or Shimano XT over Hope hubs. Hope are nice and blingy but they are not my go to hubset there are some very good alternatives and Hope only want to sell hubs to shops who buy there wheels. What do wheel builders want with there wheels silly Hope.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    No, the 340s was what I was thinking of, no?

    http://www.justridingalong.com/wheel-pa ... -rims.html
  • lewiskinch
    lewiskinch Posts: 94
    I heard the 340s are a little flexy. Personally I'd go H plus and son
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    Novatec 711/712 (they are that good!) A 23 non machined or Archetype or other rim you fancy and Alpina DB spokes... the D-light snap as you sneeze.

    Anyway, that's what I ride... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    hmm interesting thanks
  • gwillis
    gwillis Posts: 998
    I'm running h plus sons with novatec 711/712 hubs and dt swiss comp spokes along with 2 of my friends (one has hope hubs). So far they have remained true and seem very comfy compared to my other wheelsets . I'm really pleased with mine and the hubs are a doddle to maintain . I haven't heard a bad thing about the rims and I'll be building a set up in the future for my non disc bike too.
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    I run a 32h Hope Pro2 Evo hub, Archetype rim and Sapim race spokes on my rear commuter wheel. Not super light (1025g with brass nipples) but tough as you like, handsome and although the Hope hubs aren't super consistent in terms of their bearings, they are easily rebuildable.
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    420g tell me that I was right it is the ZTR alpha 400. The 340 rim with brake track is 385g. Take the brake track of and the rim would be lighter. So Just Riding along have made a mistake. As I said I can find a 340 disc specific rim on Paligaps B2b website. If it not here it can't be bought.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Novatec 711/712 (they are that good!) A 23 non machined or Archetype or other rim you fancy and Alpina DB spokes... the D-light snap as you sneeze.

    Anyway, that's what I ride... :wink:

    Well not for long hopefully :D
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    smidsy wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Novatec 711/712 (they are that good!) A 23 non machined or Archetype or other rim you fancy and Alpina DB spokes... the D-light snap as you sneeze.

    Anyway, that's what I ride... :wink:

    Well not for long hopefully :D

    Well, this saga with HED UK is ongoing... apparently they have received a massive order from the USA, but none of the full black rims they had on order arrived... so it might be another few weeks before I can release my A 23... it's been 5 weeks now... had I known, I would have bought them straight from a USA retailer... they were even cheaper with Glorycycles... even factoring in import duties etc...
    Live and learn...
    left the forum March 2023
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    No rush for me mate, whenever you have them is fine - I have not sorted the frame out yet.

    Christmas will no doubt slow down the deliveries so do not expect them until January.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    420g tell me that I was right it is the ZTR alpha 400. The 340 rim with brake track is 385g. Take the brake track of and the rim would be lighter. So Just Riding along have made a mistake. As I said I can find a 340 disc specific rim on Paligaps B2b website. If it not here it can't be bought.
    OK well it doesn't really help me, just proves you're right about something. So the 340 isn't available, fair enough, perhaps I should have started with the 400 instead. Good rim? Bad rim? These are without brake track, yes?

    I was originally thinking of the Stans NoTubes ZTR Iron Cross rims, running them tubed not tubeless, but apparently, rightly or wrongly, I've been told you can only run tyres on these at 60psi, so I guess not what I want, hence the 340/400 query ...
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    giant man wrote:
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    420g tell me that I was right it is the ZTR alpha 400. The 340 rim with brake track is 385g. Take the brake track of and the rim would be lighter. So Just Riding along have made a mistake. As I said I can find a 340 disc specific rim on Paligaps B2b website. If it not here it can't be bought.
    OK well it doesn't really help me, just proves you're right about something. So the 340 isn't available, fair enough, perhaps I should have started with the 400 instead. Good rim? Bad rim? These are without brake track, yes?

    The 400 is a tubeless road rim, so it's got to have a brake track. The Iron Cross doesn't, but it wont take road tyres, only cycle-cross ones.
    If you are not going to go tubeless, Stan's rims don't make much sense to be honest... you'll just have a tight rim that gives you grief when you have to fit a tyre, that will only take Stan's rim tape... of course IF you do want to run tubeless, then they make perfect sense
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Which is why I suggested the A23 NMSW or H Plus Archetype.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Novatec 711/712 (they are that good!) A 23 non machined or Archetype or other rim you fancy and Alpina DB spokes... the D-light snap as you sneeze.

    Anyway, that's what I ride... :wink:

    Sounds lovely. How much would that kind of wheelset cost?
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    gabriel959 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Novatec 711/712 (they are that good!) A 23 non machined or Archetype or other rim you fancy and Alpina DB spokes... the D-light snap as you sneeze.

    Anyway, that's what I ride... :wink:

    Sounds lovely. How much would that kind of wheelset cost?

    Depends who builds it and if you source the hubs yourself from Ebay, but roughly speaking you would be looking at 300 pounds
    left the forum March 2023
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    Thanks. That is really helpful.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    I could just say fu$k it and buy Archetypes I guess ... no worries about brake track rubbing away.
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    the Archetypes are the obvious choice IMO. Okay they aren't super light, and they have a brake track - albeit non-machined - but they are good rims and well finished.

    If H Plus Son could make a disc-specific version for about 400ish grams then it would definitely clean up in the handbuilt disc wheel market, in my opinion. Handsome, light enough, tubeless ready, tough...
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    maddog 2 wrote:
    the Archetypes are the obvious choice IMO. Okay they aren't super light, and they have a brake track - albeit non-machined - but they are good rims and well finished.

    If H Plus Son could make a disc-specific version for about 400ish grams then it would definitely clean up in the handbuilt disc wheel market, in my opinion. Handsome, light enough, tubeless ready, tough...

    They are machined!

    So far no-one has come out with a convincing rim, which is light, has no brake shoulder and works for road tyres too, so in the meantime Archetype fills the gap nicely.
    left the forum March 2023
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    They are machined!

    You know what I mean.

    I think I'm going to go for Archetypes on my latest disc build. I've been around the block on the alloy rim idea and I always end up back with them. I just wish they were a tad lighter...
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    maddog 2 wrote:
    I think I'm going to go for Archetypes on my latest disc build. I've been around the block on the alloy rim idea and I always end up back with them. I just wish they were a tad lighter...

    Make them lighter... drill more holes in the rim bed, won't do no harm!
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Talking to the Chickens rep today and the Ryde Pulse disc comp is due for delivery at the end of January. He said Ryde claim the 330g weight is real as Ryde were over in the U.K showing the pre production rims. I will be getting the pre production sample shortly to take a look at exactly what this rim will be like. I am been promised some samples for test building too. Fingers crossed they will be good enough to actually use.

    Drilling holes in rims has this site turned into weight weenies!
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    Talking to the Chickens rep today and the Ryde Pulse disc comp is due for delivery at the end of January. He said Ryde claim the 330g weight is real as Ryde were over in the U.K showing the pre production rims. I will be getting the pre production sample shortly to take a look at exactly what this rim will be like. I am been promised some samples for test building too. Fingers crossed they will be good enough to actually use.

    Drilling holes in rims has this site turned into weight weenies!

    Don't know... I guess people will buy disc bikes because they are versatile and can be used on different terrains... pairing them with a weak rim defies a bit the point...
    For instance... next year I have signed up for Paris-Roubaix... would I show up with a 330 grams rim? Probably not... but then again, as these bikes become more expensive, people will invest in more than just one wheelset (which again defies the point of a do it all disc setup), so there might be a market for a 330 grams rim
    left the forum March 2023
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    ygm re. my disc build Malcolm
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I see disc brake bike differently. If you want a CX capable bike them a narrow MTB dic rim like a DT Swiss rim will work well but I think there will be a demand (and Ryde think so two) for light weight weight road (race) disc brake bikes. These will use light rims either carbon or alloy for narrow tyres. Some of the disc frames I have seem drawing of have clearnace on for 25mm tyres at the back which rules out a wide 23mm rim to begin with and the use of wider CX-tyres. These are road frames only, race bikes really.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    For those, like myself, luring after a set of HED Belgium C2 full black, bad news!
    I have just spoken at the phone with HED UK and these are currently no longer in production, as the black coat apparently flakes off the machined track, even without braking. So at HED they are now implementing a new process and they should come back in stock in the new year. I cancelled my order and decided to give the Stan's Alpha 340 disc a try myself (saving the best part of 100 quid)... they are 410 grams (what's the difference with the 400 then?), which should be plenty and I will build them with customised rim washers for extra strength, will post the photos on my blog... :D
    left the forum March 2023
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    Ugo, do you know what the difference in between the 711/712 hubs and the 521/522 hubs is? Have you seen the later? Do you have any comments on them?
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    gabriel959 wrote:
    Ugo, do you know what the difference in between the 711/712 hubs and the 521/522 hubs is? Have you seen the later? Do you have any comments on them?

    Yes, they are old style hubs, the rear has a steel freehub, 10 mm axle and cone/balls bearings, much like a Shimano Deore. I would be probably be inclined to go Shimano if you want something on the heavy and robust side... the new deore XT are lush, albeit only Centrelock.
    Wouldn't know where to source spares for those.. .also, they are not for discs, as far as I know
    left the forum March 2023
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    gabriel959 wrote:
    Ugo, do you know what the difference in between the 711/712 hubs and the 521/522 hubs is? Have you seen the later? Do you have any comments on them?

    Yes, they are old style hubs, the rear has a steel freehub, 10 mm axle and cone/balls bearings, much like a Shimano Deore. I would be probably be inclined to go Shimano if you want something on the heavy and robust side... the new deore XT are lush, albeit only Centrelock.
    Wouldn't know where to source spares for those.. .also, they are not for discs, as far as I know

    Mmm, thanks, they come with the wheels of a bike I am interested in (and it comes with Avid BB5s so I assume it is ok for discs?). I was just wondering if it would be ok to reuse them if I was to rebuild the wheel on a different rim like the Archetype or if it would be better to sell them and buy the 711/712 instead. It seems like the later.

    On the Novatec website they look almost the same as the 711/712.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra

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