UK Is No Big Power

daviesee
daviesee Posts: 6,386
edited December 2013 in The cake stop
I cant wait to hear Cameron's response to this:-

http://news.sky.com/story/1176976/china ... to-cameron

The Empire is long gone.
The power is long gone.
The influence is long gone.
The UK is a small Country.

Time for everyone to realise and accept it.
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
«1

Comments

  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    madasahattersley wrote:
    Our GDP per capita is still 4x bigger than China's, and nominally still 7th largest in the world. Yes we're a small country, but also a rich and powerful one.

    Unless you're talking about self loathing - we're top of the class at that
    Per capita means nothing if you only have a small population.
    We may punch above our weight but we are still lightweight.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    7th largest economy in the world? Well, we aren't a mega-power but we're still a big power.

    Let's see the Chinese being as innovative as the UK in so many fields before they declare that we're finished.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Keep clinging to that if you want but this Country is on the wane.
    And that is how other Countries see us.

    We cant even build a railway without going cap in hand to China.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • random man
    random man Posts: 1,518
    daviesee wrote:
    I cant wait to hear Cameron's response to this:-

    http://news.sky.com/story/1176976/china ... to-cameron

    The Empire is long gone.
    The power is long gone.
    The influence is long gone.
    The UK is a small Country.

    Time for everyone to realise and accept it.

    If Cameron had not met the Dalai Lama, that article would not have been written IMO.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    I'm not disagreeing that we are, relatively, losing some power, but does China really have it so much better than us? They've got an ageing population, low birth rate, lack of women of child-bearing age. Hundreds of millions of them still live in absolute poverty. I just don't buy into this idea that the 21st century will see China becoming the world leader, I think it's far more likely we'll end up with a multipolar world.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    All super powers in the past have been built on the suffering of others.
    Both their own population and others.
    I dont see why China would be any different.

    They have the population and they have the money.

    I dont think it is right, but that is how super powers behave. Including the British Empire.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    ^^^

    Is that a response to my post?
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    johnfinch wrote:
    ^^^

    Is that a response to my post?
    Yes.
    Lets have the counter. :wink:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    daviesee wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    ^^^

    Is that a response to my post?
    Yes.
    Lets have the counter. :wink:

    Ok. I'm not quite sure how that responds to any of the points in my post. I wasn't judging China's morality, I was questioning whether they can become the hegemonic power that so many people seem to be convinced they will be in the future.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,017
    All Empires fall eventually. It is a natural cycle. I'm sure the Romans thought they would have an empire for ever.
    The British Empire is gone, America rose and its power is now on the wane as China rises. So it goes on.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    johnfinch wrote:
    daviesee wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    ^^^

    Is that a response to my post?
    Yes.
    Lets have the counter. :wink:

    Ok. I'm not quite sure how that responds to any of the points in my post. I wasn't judging China's morality, I was questioning whether they can become the hegemonic power that so many people seem to be convinced they will be in the future.
    Money - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22717939
    And a huge workforce which they are willing to abuse.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    madasahattersley wrote:
    daviesee wrote:
    madasahattersley wrote:
    Our GDP per capita is still 4x bigger than China's, and NOMINALLY still 7th largest in the world. Yes we're a small country, but also a rich and powerful one.

    Unless you're talking about self loathing - we're top of the class at that
    Per capita means nothing if you only have a small population.
    We may punch above our weight but we are still lightweight.
    How much of that is foreign money simply passing through London?
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    daviesee wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    daviesee wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    ^^^

    Is that a response to my post?
    Yes.
    Lets have the counter. :wink:

    Ok. I'm not quite sure how that responds to any of the points in my post. I wasn't judging China's morality, I was questioning whether they can become the hegemonic power that so many people seem to be convinced they will be in the future.
    Money - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22717939
    And a huge workforce which they are willing to abuse.

    I'm not saying that China won't go on to become a major power, just that there will at some point come a slowdown in her growth and we're more likely to see a return to the old days when there were a number of very large powers, rather than the post-1991 situation of having one superpower heading the world.

    I predict that in 50 years, we'll see China, India, USA, the EU and maybe a Latin American trading block all at the top table. Russia might be up there as well.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    madasahattersley wrote:

    Makes absolutely no difference...
    Does if they decide to move their money through Singapore.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • DesB3rd
    DesB3rd Posts: 285
    So a historic anomaly occurred where a small, unpopulous set of nations (by merit of their social/governmental arrangements and philosophical attitudes), managed to harness a technological & commercial revolution which propelled them to a position of unprecedented military & economic power. That was unexpected and historically odd.

    That undeveloped nations would eventually recognise and form strategies to apply the same “tricks” (while also recognising & avoiding the trailblazer’s meanders and dead-ends), to their economies, governance and much larger nations/populations is no surprise.

    Think of it as the ironing out of the anomaly; the mismanagement of the great polities of the East kept those entities disproportionately underdeveloped and impotent for a long time but it wasnt going to continue forever…
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    The number of students coming here from China to study at our universities suggests they still rate us for something.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    verylonglegs wrote:
    The number of students coming here from China to study at our universities suggests they still rate us for something.
    That was mentioned in the report in the link.
    Studies and tourism.
    Thats it.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    daviesee wrote:
    Keep clinging to that if you want but this Country is on the wane.
    And that is how other Countries see us.

    We cant even build a railway without going cap in hand to China.

    thats what u lot get for voting for over a decade of labour.

    we should just frimpong the c unts that will teach em who's a big boy
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Does it actually matter whether the UK is a big power or not? For all their world power status, would anyone here rather have been born in china or the USA?
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    omg! to be an american! i wish!

    actually thinking bout if i was american and not a plummy englishman (when in the 52 states) they wouldnt like me nearly as much
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    daviesee wrote:
    verylonglegs wrote:
    The number of students coming here from China to study at our universities suggests they still rate us for something.
    That was mentioned in the report in the link.
    Studies and tourism.
    Thats it.

    Is that so bad though? China as a collective apparently doesn't rate the UK anymore...hmmph, hardly likely to keep anyone with a sensible head awake at night. Only Sun readers worry about being British these days and if the world gives a fark.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    You can hardly blame the Chinese, after all, how would you react if Cameron gave you a picture of him and Sam ! what a tzzzer!

    We, in the west, used these countries for cheap labour, relocated factories and put our own people on the dole, they copied our tech and now we go cap in hand with our begging bowl, no wonder they treat us thus.
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    When Scotland legs it and leaves UK x% smaller, will UK get lobbed off the G7 and G8?
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Daz555 wrote:
    When Scotland legs it and leaves UK x% smaller, will UK get lobbed off the G7 and G8?
    Hmmmmmm.
    Finally a plausible reason for why Cameron wants us to stay.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • adamfo
    adamfo Posts: 763
    daviesee wrote:
    madasahattersley wrote:
    Our GDP per capita is still 4x bigger than China's, and nominally still 7th largest in the world. Yes we're a small country, but also a rich and powerful one.

    Unless you're talking about self loathing - we're top of the class at that
    Per capita means nothing if you only have a small population.
    We may punch above our weight but we are still lightweight.

    The UK is the second largest economy in Europe

    German GDP (PPP) $3.1 T
    UK 2.3$ T

    2012 IMF figures

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _%28PPP%29
  • adamfo
    adamfo Posts: 763
    daviesee wrote:
    I cant wait to hear Cameron's response to this:-

    http://news.sky.com/story/1176976/china ... to-cameron

    The Empire is long gone.
    The power is long gone.
    The influence is long gone.
    The UK is a small Country.

    Time for everyone to realise and accept it.

    Actually we are No.1 8)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_power
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Fine.
    But thats statistics, not perception and as I said earlier that could all go very quickly and very easily.

    To misquote an old saying - What would you give to see yourself as others see you?
    Well, there you had it.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    daviesee wrote:
    To misquote an old saying - What would you give to see yourself as others see you?
    Well, there you had it.

    Either that or we had a statement based on politics. The mainstream Chinese media is pretty much a propaganda service for the government. That the UK is not a big power was pretty much a government statement. How much faith do you put in the words of the Chinese government?
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    johnfinch wrote:
    daviesee wrote:
    To misquote an old saying - What would you give to see yourself as others see you?
    Well, there you had it.

    Either that or we had a statement based on politics. The mainstream Chinese media is pretty much a propaganda service for the government. That the UK is not a big power was pretty much a government statement. How much faith do you put in the words of the Chinese government?
    To turn that around, how much faith do you put in the words of David Cameron?
    Especially when the EU are pretty much dismissing everything he says while he is in China.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    daviesee wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    daviesee wrote:
    To misquote an old saying - What would you give to see yourself as others see you?
    Well, there you had it.

    Either that or we had a statement based on politics. The mainstream Chinese media is pretty much a propaganda service for the government. That the UK is not a big power was pretty much a government statement. How much faith do you put in the words of the Chinese government?
    To turn that around, how much faith do you put in the words of David Cameron?
    Especially when the EU are pretty much dismissing everything he says while he is in China.

    No, I don't trust our government and I don't trust the Chinese government. I just believe that the UK is (for now) still a big power, even if we aren't a superpower.

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