crappy technique? wrong bike? or just man up?

mattl80

Hi all, so i visited The forrest of Dean this weekend on my trusty old hard tail with a friend and some of his mates.

Had fun but fell off - a lot.
Not sure if this was down to just poor technique or my bike not being fit for purpose- i suspect it may be a bit of both but intreated to hear other views.

My main problem seemed to be that I was just kind of sliding around with my breaks at full lock, with an end result of becoming unbalanced and just falling off sideways on some of the steep gradients. On fast rooty sections my front forks just seemed to max out with the bars rattling around all over the shop.

I was riding my 09 kona kula deluxe HT with racing ralph tyres. With this being an old school XC race bike, I'm wondering if my frame geometry had anything to do with my lack of balance? or is that just me not leaning back enough? I found it hard to get my weight back off the front wheel. I also didn't seem to be able to get any grip with the tyres, i guess this was down to them being designed for XC.

Anyway, the take away from all this is that it's given me an excuse to buy a new bike. I really like the DH stuff and want to do more of it. Liking the look of the Specialized Stumpjumper Fsr Expert Carbon Evo.

supersonic

Downhill on an xc bike? That's the problem. If you want to do proper dh, get a dh bike.

rockmonkeysc

The Forest of Dean downhill tracks are very tame as far as DH goes. I have ridden them all on my Giant Anthem which has similar geometry.
You need to be very smooth to ride those tracks on an xc bike. If it was wet or even damp grip can be hard to find and locking brakes won't help.
A modern trail bike can be ridden pretty fast down those trails but only if you have the ability to ride it fast, otherwise you will be no better off than on your Kona.

kajjal

When I did a lot more MTB and was very fit I did part of a downhill course on an XC hardtail. It was fine as long as you keep your speed high enough, if your speed drops too low it becomes more of a technical obstacle course. Either way XC hard tails are not the easiest bikes to ride dedicated downhill courses. On steep trails they are fine.

rockmonkeysc

The FoD downhill trails are no harder than a red graded xc trail. They aren't even steep.

mattl80

I have heard that FoD downhill trails where relatively gentle in comparison to other places. guess i just need to man up then.
My HT actually got nicked today anyway so looks like i'll be getting a new bike. Anyone any experience with the Specialized Stumpjumper Fsr Expert Carbon Evo? would this be a good bike for the type of dh stuff at FoD?

kajjal

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The FoD downhill trails are no harder than a red graded xc trail. They aren't even steep.

Sounds like more practice is needed then

Muddy wet trails can be very testing to ride

cooldad

mattl80 wrote:

I really like the DH stuff and want to do more of it. Liking the look of the Specialized Stumpjumper Fsr Expert Carbon Evo. not sure how much difference it will make though.

It is not a DH bike.

mattl80

cooldad wrote:

mattl80 wrote:

I really like the DH stuff and want to do more of it. Liking the look of the Specialized Stumpjumper Fsr Expert Carbon Evo. not sure how much difference it will make though.

It is not a DH bike.

Yeah, hence my interest. I'm after something i can use for "light" DH such as the runs at FoD and the odd bit of trail riding as well.

mattl80

Kajjal wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The FoD downhill trails are no harder than a red graded xc trail. They aren't even steep.

Sounds like more practice is needed then

Muddy wet trails can be very testing to ride

I would like to blame the conditions but it was bone dry. I'll blame the tyres/bike insead.

paul.skibum

I would look at the Nukeproof Mega TR (I would do a link but its not my money but it is my time - dammit typing that used more time than getting the link would have) - trail bike with good geometry for dh oriented riding - downside is the 1x10 gearing which may limit its trail use depending on your own fitness and local riding.

rockmonkeysc

paul.skibum wrote:

I would look at the Nukeproof Mega TR (I would do a link but its not my money but it is my time - dammit typing that used more time than getting the link would have) - trail bike with good geometry for dh oriented riding - downside is the 1x10 gearing which may limit its trail use depending on your own fitness and local riding.

I have just got a Mega TR and it is really very good. Excellent at battering down gnarly trails but light and efficient for the climbs.
It comes with a single ring but you can fit a front mech. Or you can do a custom build reasonably cheap if you want 26" wheels.

mmacavity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvWp5ypjg0

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The FoD downhill trails are no harder than a red graded xc trail. They aren't even steep.

Well that's completely untrue.
They're not super steep, but they're steeper and more technical than any red trail i've ever ridden (in fact i've never really ridden a trail centre that has any kind of roots in the trail)

paul.skibum

mmacavity wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvWp5ypjg0

I did a course with the guy in that video - he's pretty good. He's a high level snowboard instructor too

rockmonkeysc

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The FoD downhill trails are no harder than a red graded xc trail. They aren't even steep.

Well that's completely untrue.
They're not super steep, but they're steeper and more technical than any red trail i've ever ridden (in fact i've never really ridden a trail centre that has any kind of roots in the trail)

They're really not technical. About the same level as the red trails at Bike Park Wales.
They aren't that rooty, I used to ride them at reasonable speen on my Anthem with no problems.

paulneenan76

Well, for my two pence, Rockmonkey is only part right. You can do most of the DH runs at FoD with middling ability and a half decent bike. However, you need more ability, a better bike, some protective gear, and bigger balls to ride them at reasonable speed. Certainly, I couldnt do the drop-offs on the GBU etc., and some of the Red runs elsewhere are as tricky, but mostly not. Clearly Rockmonkey is the shizzle!

rockmonkeysc

On any trail you need ability to ride faster!
Races have been won by Duncan Ferris at FoD on a 100mm travel DMR Bolt so I don't agree a big bike is fastest there.
Man up and ride the drops, the landing is so perfect you just ride off it, no need to lift the front or do anything. Drops don't get easier.

Maro

I used to ride the old FoD DH trails on my DMR trailstar, RS judy SL forks with blown seals and V brakes, my mates on their DH bikes were not much quicker at all, probably cos I couldn't really stop even if I wanted to and possibly not down to my ability.

Anyway, the OP didn't actually say he was riding the DH trails, whether he was or not it sounds like maybe a bit too harsh with the brake levers thus locking the front wheel, and maybe a little less pressure in tyres might have helped. A new bike is always nice but IMHO not really necessary in this case.

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The FoD downhill trails are no harder than a red graded xc trail. They aren't even steep.

Well that's completely untrue.
They're not super steep, but they're steeper and more technical than any red trail i've ever ridden (in fact i've never really ridden a trail centre that has any kind of roots in the trail)

They're really not technical. About the same level as the red trails at Bike Park Wales.
They aren't that rooty, I used to ride them at reasonable speen on my Anthem with no problems.

Some of them are a lot more rooty than any normal trail centre stuff. You're full of some daft opinions....

angry_bird

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The FoD downhill trails are no harder than a red graded xc trail. They aren't even steep.

Well that's completely untrue.
They're not super steep, but they're steeper and more technical than any red trail i've ever ridden (in fact i've never really ridden a trail centre that has any kind of roots in the trail)

They're really not technical. About the same level as the red trails at Bike Park Wales.
They aren't that rooty, I used to ride them at reasonable speen on my Anthem with no problems.

Some of them are a lot more rooty than any normal trail centre stuff. You're full of some daft opinions....

Yeah but he's a riding god so everything is super tame and easy for him.

ilovedirt

Ah I see, I am but a mere mortal.

rockmonkeysc

The red xc trails at bike park Wales are as tech as FoD downhill trails.

The Rookie

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The red xc trails at bike park Wales are as tech as FoD downhill trails.

Yeah, we got that the first time and in the two repeated quotes.......

cooldad

The Rookie wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The red xc trails at bike park Wales are as tech as FoD downhill trails.

Yeah, we got that the first time and in the two repeated quotes.......

Just making sure no one mistakes his awesome awesomeness.

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The red xc trails at bike park Wales are as tech as FoD downhill trails.

Did you bring your tech-o-meter with you, or is it just your ninja instinct?

ednino

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The red xc trails at bike park Wales are as tech as FoD downhill trails.

There isn't any XC trails at Bike Park Wales, its just 1 hill with lots of different ways down

Why do people think cross country means 'easy downhill' :roll:

rockmonkeysc

It's trails down a hill but only the black trails are proper downhill trails. By downhill I mean trails which are best suited to downhill bikes and full face helmets.
The red and blue trails are better suited to xc/trail/all mountain bikes.
I don't think of xc as easy downhill. I ride equal amounts of both and see them as being very different and requiring different skills.
A red trail on an xc bike can be as hard as a black trail on a downhill bike.
Double black trails are just evil on any bike.

paul.skibum

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I ride equal amounts of both and see them as being very different and requiring different skills.

Nonsense - xc and dh do not require different skills - they both require you to be able to ride a bike.

XC may require you to ride up the hill as well but the downhill whether steep or gentle gradient are the same handling skills.

Ratings for trails are bs in any case - one mans red is another mans green - who gives a flying fudge if the FOD DH is no harder than a red in BPW? You are the man who in his own review of his bike said after a ride in the Quantocks - I never felt the 130mm lacking. Of course you didnt! you were riding on bridleways in the quantocks - I ride them on a hardtail and never thought the bike was lacking, I might have thought my skill was lacking but not the bike.

Balaclavas

Having ridden several of the DH trails at FoD and all the reds at BPW on my 130mm travel (not quite) trail bike. I have to say the reds at BPW were noticably easier, I never felt out of shape or had the anchors hard on. FoD though, I was often out of shape and clinging on, it was definately steeper.

Worth noting that a friend of mine coped with the same DH at FoD with only 120mms on his hard tail.

Wouldn't call either of them XC though, technical elements of either may be scattered round an XC course.

tobamory

Just buy yourself a nice Trail/All mountain bike, as I feel your probably going to do a lot more Trail and Mild downhill like Most of us do. Something like a Orange 5 or Bronson from Santa Cruz, or other makes in that kind of arena would be great. But weigh up how Much downhill youll do. I did some downhill on my solo and it was fine, and I don't think I,ll ever do anything as mad,
although I do like the V10

As for the bike, Bikeradar gave it a good review but im hearing horror stories about problems with the rear pivots and bearings, just have a check on forums.

Ask ya mate to borrow his, see if you still fall off

Also my wife rides my old Orange E8 pro with is a pure XC bike, she managed all Sherwood pines and others on it fine, but as XC bikes go, you always feel over the bars at the front, and not sat back like Trail/All mountain bikes, this can be somewhat un-nerving esp when doing downhill.