Trail Maintenance - Thoughts..

Thewaylander

Cwm Carn is a great place to see good drainage except where they have patched it in the last year or so where it gets a bit boggier(is that a word?)

Angus Young

benpinnick wrote:

Tracks are getting smoother and more sanitised in an attempt to speed up the development and limit rework required in the future. It means everything is getting samey and a lot less fun unless you ride at warp speed.

How much of it is for ease of construction and how much of it is a response to riders wanting to go ever faster, a second off here a second off there?

benpinnick

I can only speak really for my local trails, but in this case its 100% for convenience.

cooldad

benpinnick wrote:

... I am minded to rip up a lot of the trails laid down recently and start again with the surfacing etc. I would like to find a way to make them more loamy and natural feeling,...

Totally agree, get rid of the mini cobble effect. I'll even get off my backside to help rip them up.

rockmonkeysc

Angus Young wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

Tracks are getting smoother and more sanitised in an attempt to speed up the development and limit rework required in the future. It means everything is getting samey and a lot less fun unless you ride at warp speed.

How much of it is for easy of construction and how much of it is a response to riders wanting to go ever faster, a second off here a second off there?

Why would anyone want to make the track quicker? If it's quicker for one person it's quicker for most people. It just means a more boring track and less riding time and at Cwmcarn that also means more time waiting for the next uplift.

welshkev

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

Tracks are getting smoother and more sanitised in an attempt to speed up the development and limit rework required in the future. It means everything is getting samey and a lot less fun unless you ride at warp speed.

How much of it is for easy of construction and how much of it is a response to riders wanting to go ever faster, a second off here a second off there?

Why would anyone want to make the track quicker? If it's quicker for one person it's quicker for most people. It just means a more boring track and less riding time and at Cwmcarn that also means more time waiting for the next uplift.

yeah making it quicker doesn't make sense to me either :? for me you should only be able to ride a track quicker if you've found a better line or improved your technique, not taken all the bumps and roots etc out of it!

Huckfinn

cooldad wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

... I am minded to rip up a lot of the trails laid down recently and start again with the surfacing etc. I would like to find a way to make them more loamy and natural feeling,...

Totally agree, get rid of the mini cobble effect. I'll even get off my backside to help rip them up.

I agree as well it would be nice to have more natural trails at swinley, but they would get a lot of use and judging by the condition of the red trail that is still is 'original swinley' it will be a bog through the winter, unless good drainage is installed. The hard pack is a necessary evil to allow trails to be ride able throughout the year (even if it doesn't drain particularly well) in swinley's case.

benpinnick

The annoying part is that the section (Red 4) thats still natural was always the worst draining part of the forest (I believe due to a water leak from the pipe that runs under it but thats another discussion). The reason this was left natural was because its due to be ripped up later this year when they renew the pipe. Other sections of natural trails would stand up to abuse much better. Swinley actually drains very well, but people tend to remember only the last couple of years, which were really wet.

Huckfinn

but people tend to remember only the last couple of years, which were really wet.

Unfortunately that may be a continuing trend.

If you choose to remove the hard pack surface and there is a continuation of the heavy use swinley gets, the trail team will need to be on top of repairs etc. I will volunteer my services if I can get away from house DIY. Id also be interested in looking into the drainage side if needed.

cooldad

benpinnick wrote:

The annoying part is that the section (Red 4) thats still natural was always the worst draining part of the forest (I believe due to a water leak from the pipe that runs under it but thats another discussion). The reason this was left natural was because its due to be ripped up later this year when they renew the pipe. Other sections of natural trails would stand up to abuse much better. Swinley actually drains very well, but people tend to remember only the last couple of years, which were really wet.

Labyrinth is also still natural (Red whatever - still haven't got the numbers memorised except for Blue 1) and still the most fun.

Huckfinn

Its become my favourite part, although the entrance into it, it think its called 'Baby maker'? has smoothed out too and is really good.

cooldad

The actual red trail down is Deerstalker (red number something or other). Babymaker is the trail on the right of that.

Hob Nob

The trouble you now have with Swinley is the sheer volume of riders on the trails.

Quite a lot of sections couldn't cope before, and became 100+ meter sections of bog, that's only going to get worse over time.

The surface there is an odd one too, some sections are great, flowing fun, other sections just seem to be plain nasty. The bit after Red4 that everyone avoids that's new & cut in from the crossroads is a really sh*tty bit of trail. I'm (for the most part) quicker on an HT all the way round, but that section is like riding a road bike down a pot holed road after a hard winter.

For the most part, I like Swinley - it's easy to turn up, ride round it & go home. It's not got the biggest hill, it's not the most interesting place to ride, but it is local, and rides near enough the same speed all year round.

bennett_346

People actually ride swinley?

Huckfinn

Yep thanks for the correction I wasn't sure of the name, 'Baby Maker' is the one that joins with 'down hill section' which at the bottom joins with Labyrinth. Going to try and get over there tomorrow for a night time ride.

rockmonkeysc

Is there a hill at Swinley?

Huckfinn

sorry I use the term 'down hill section' lightly maybe 'free ride' might be a better term, Im not sure, its got jumps and table tops and stuff... its all trails to me.

cooldad

bennett_346 wrote:

People actually ride swinley?

Er yes, my house basically backs onto it. So some people do.

But I haven't actually ridden the new trails for months.

I might occasionally use them to link up other bits that actually don't really exist. Forget I said anything.

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Is there a hill at Swinley?

There is indeed. Or were you confusing the term 'hill' with 'mountain', of which there are none.

Northwind

benpinnick wrote:

I'm not a huge fan of the current trail building methods either. I hate to say it but its mainly Back On Track's influence Im afraid. Tracks are getting smoother and more sanitised in an attempt to speed up the development and limit rework required in the future. It means everything is getting samey and a lot less fun unless you ride at warp speed. We need to go back to hand laying tracks to get the really great stuff we saw in wales developed at places like CyB.

Not sure it's fair to blame Back On Track, it's a common trend which they're probably following as much as leading, but otherwise agree with every word tbh.

Thing is, big tracks like this can be ace- Berm Baby Berm at Glentress is a fantastic example, simple jumps and berms tracks benefit from it most as it means they keep the shape they need to work (a worn jump track is usually just rubbish, whereas worn or even worn out singletrack often gets better). But people have seen the logical conclusion of that and are now building more and more of that sort of thing.

It's not all bad, it does mean there's trails appearing that just wouldn't otherwise, so if they're not to your taste you just don't ride them- there'd be nothing there at all otherwise. But when it replaces existing trails it's more trouble. And when it replaces more natural-ish building that's also bad.

There's sometimes a third way, at CYB they added a runway track to "replace" the old Adam and Eve but left the existing and characterfully shagged out trail in place- just built a "bypass". Win/win, it takes the pressure off the old trail and means it'll last a lot longer (since it's not a simple linear thing, 100 wheels a day causes more than 10 times as much wear as 10 wheels a day, recovery time matters too) and now there's more choice. Wish we'd see more of that rather than old trails being ripped up to fit new ones.

benpinnick

Totally agree. I like wide smooth tracks where wide and smooth is needed, but where its a 'trail' it needs to be like a natural trail would be... thats what we started riding and fell in love with. This tarmac-alike trail explosion is a poor substitute.

cooldad

Totally. I hate evil roots but it's no fun without them.

Stevo_666

Northwind wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

You'd have trouble doing a decent DH course on a rigid...

I always post Jesse, here he is at the 2012 endurance downhill at fort william, 6 hours on the world cup track- he did 13 runs in total, beating 3/4s of the field. I had my skillz compensator with me so I managed to beat him by a place.

Unless that's a pic of bennett_346, my point still stands . [Awaits pic of bennett doing a DH course on a rigid].

rockmonkeysc

Part of the problem is people expect to have perfect trails provided for them (and bitch about having to pay to ride/park) but they won't ever pick up some tools and help maintain or build the trails they ride every week.
You can't really complain about trails unless you put in your share of work at your local riding spot.

Northwind

TESTIFY! I'm a placid sort of dude but sooner or later I'm going to hit some cunt with a mattock and turn the body into a trail feature.

bennett_346

Stevo 666 wrote:

Northwind wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

You'd have trouble doing a decent DH course on a rigid...

I always post Jesse, here he is at the 2012 endurance downhill at fort william, 6 hours on the world cup track- he did 13 runs in total, beating 3/4s of the field. I had my skillz compensator with me so I managed to beat him by a place.

Unless that's a pic of bennett_346, my point still stands . [Awaits pic of bennett doing a DH course on a rigid].

I er, well you see all the photos are, ahem.

Sorry my internet is messed up, the files won't er, upload.

Huckfinn

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Part of the problem is people expect to have perfect trails provided for them (and ***** about having to pay to ride/park) but they won't ever pick up some tools and help maintain or build the trails they ride every week.
You can't really complain about trails unless you put in your share of work at your local riding spot.

Not complaining about swinley £2 for 4 hours bargain, Im glad its there in its current state and I will be volunteering to help maintain it as I have already started to do at QECP which hasnt had the money thrown it.

rockmonkeysc

Northwind wrote:

TESTIFY! I'm a placid sort of dude but sooner or later I'm going to hit some **** with a mattock and turn the body into a trail feature.

The worst people are the ones who turn up to ride on a dig day and don't pick up a shovel all day.

cooldad

Some people are the workers, some of us are the ruling classes.

rockmonkeysc

Try telling trail builders that next time you see some. I would like to see a video of what happens and a video of the mattock extraction operation.

benpinnick

By ruling class, cooldad means 'teaboy'.