Why train with power?

mattclinton

Training with power may sound like a lot of science, but there's some very good reasons why you should be doing it right now!

1) Fitness Testing
With a power meter you can test your fitness whenever you like, for whatever duration you like.

2) Gauge your strengths and weaknesses
Having tested your fitness you can then determine your personal strengths and weaknesses. Train to improve your weaknesses and race to your strengths.
Average sprint but good fatigue resistance? That means you need to soften up your break away companions with a series of attacks before the finish.
Poor sprinter but good threshold power? You are likely to be good at time trialling or triathlons or if you are road racing you need to think about breaking away some distance from the finish.
Good threshold power to weight? You are likely to be good at long climbs and sportives.

3) Consistent measurement and motivation
Power is an absolute measure. It directly correlates with performance. If your power goes up and your weight and aerodynamics don’t change then you will go faster. The wind and hills will affect speed and many things affect heart rate, but power is comparable across time and between people. Seeing your power data going up is incredibly motivating to keep on training and makes you look forward to your goal race knowing for sure that you were fitter than you ever were before.

4) Determine if your training (plan) is working – learn what works for you – learn your body
As power is a consistent measure you can use it to track if your training is having the desired effect. If you spend 2 months working on increasing your threshold and you are still where you started, then you need to have a serious rethink of your training. If a week of a certain type of training yields a sudden major improvement, then maybe you should think about revisiting those sessions in the near future as your body has clearly responded well to that stimulus. A powermeter is an unforgiving mistress, it is clear when you are doing well and your power is up, conversely it will also show you when your form has disappeared. When your perceived effort at powers that would normally be comfortable is high then you need to be very vigilant to what your body is telling you. It could be you are overly fatigued or coming down with an illness, this is a warning sign that you need to have a few days rest to see how your body recovers.

5) Training Load
With powermeter data you can determine your optimum training load. You can use advanced metrics and algorithms like TSS® and Performance Manager® from Trainingpeaks®. With these you can plan your training to give you a consistent overload. Push your body hard enough to get better but not so hard that you risk illness. You may well find you are training less than you used to by removing the junk miles and making every session count.

6) Peaking and Tapering
Not only can you plan your training load you can also plan to be at your best. How long should you taper, if at, all for your goal race? For a short race like a kilo or hill climb you might taper for a few weeks so you are very fresh. For a longer race you might have as little as a few easy days in the week before the race.

7) Training at the correct intensities
A powermeter gives you instant feedback. This means you can use it to keep yourself at the right intensity for the duration of the effort you are doing. Whether that is a 5 minute interval at 110% of threshold or a 40 minute sweetspot ride, if you back off for even a second the power numbers will drop. You can train specifically for the demands of your goal event. Heart rate is affected by numerous factors other than the intensity you are riding (temperature, stimulants like caffeine, hydration, time of day, fatigue etc.) and it lags the effort you are doing. Once you have tested your threshold power you can determine your training levels.

8) Equipment and position optimisation
You can use your powermeter to optimise your equipment in terms of aerodynamics and rolling resistance. Using techniques like the ‘Chung Method’ or repeated rides up and down a section of quiet road, you can analyse ride data to determine the aerodynamic effects of changes of equipment or position. While it is not as accurate as a wind tunnel it will enable you to make significant gains and it will get you into the right ballpark.

9) Nutrition
You can use your powermeter data to determine exactly how many calories you burned during your ride. You can use this information to guide your nutrition before, during and after races and training. Also, if you are planning to lose weight, you can accurately monitor your calorie deficit so you lose weight slowly and consistently.

10) Pacing
In triathlons, time trials and mountain bike races it is crucial to pace yourself accurately from the start. There is no bunch in which to recover from major exertions. The power meter is a huge advantage at the start of these types of events where you can set yourself a limit on your power output so you can maintain the pace for the duration.

11) Race Analysis
You can use the power data from race files to:
a, determine if you did a good job of pacing
b, guide your future training
c, work out what went wrong or right – did you get dropped by the group? Couldn’t make it to the breakaway? Looking back at the data before that happened will guide you to improve that weakness or reuse that strength.


12) Coaching interaction
A powermeter enables you to get the best from your coach. Sending your powermeter data to your coach tells them not only how you completed the session that they planned for you to do, but also how your body responded to it. Longer term they can see if the training plan they are giving you is working or not and adjust it as necessary. It also allows you to see if the money you are paying your coach is worthwhile. If you can see you are getting fitter or your endurance is improving, then you can be happy they are earning the money you are paying them for their expertise.

buckles

omg SPAM!

dw300

Dat sig ..

mattclinton

Is that better? It's training advice, that's all.

:roll:

Team4Luke

can't disagree with that but riders should also use all available information, HR, feel, time to complete a session without this power is meaningless, training just taking note of power alone would be a mistake. At the end of the day your looking for more sustainable power at lower HR's than previously - this equals improved physical performance ie speed, the time taken to get from A-B if you are a tester. If you haven't previously done any structured progessive training then you will see an ability to ride a bit quciker than you used to be able to for the same effort/perceived/watts.
I wish people would not bang on abour HR being effected by allsorts, unless you pile down a load of drugs or huge amounts of coffee or really quite ill then it is quite stable especially at constant tempo efforts.

cougie

Mine isnt stable - I used to get cardiac drift on marathons.

(if you have a powermeter - I'd have thought that 99% of users would have a HRM that they are using together with it ?)

amaferanga

Team4Luke wrote:

can't disagree with that but riders should also use all available information, HR, feel, time to complete a session without this power is meaningless, training just taking note of power alone would be a mistake. At the end of the day your looking for more sustainable power at lower HR's than previously - this equals improved physical performance ie speed, the time taken to get from A-B if you are a tester. If you haven't previously done any structured progessive training then you will see an ability to ride a bit quciker than you used to be able to for the same effort/perceived/watts.
I wish people would not bang on abour HR being effected by allsorts, unless you pile down a load of drugs or huge amounts of coffee or really quite ill then it is quite stable especially at constant tempo efforts.

Have you ever used a power meter?

imposter2.0

amaferanga wrote:

Team4Luke wrote:

can't disagree with that but riders should also use all available information, HR, feel, time to complete a session without this power is meaningless, training just taking note of power alone would be a mistake. At the end of the day your looking for more sustainable power at lower HR's than previously - this equals improved physical performance ie speed, the time taken to get from A-B if you are a tester. If you haven't previously done any structured progessive training then you will see an ability to ride a bit quciker than you used to be able to for the same effort/perceived/watts.
I wish people would not bang on abour HR being effected by allsorts, unless you pile down a load of drugs or huge amounts of coffee or really quite ill then it is quite stable especially at constant tempo efforts.

Have you ever used a power meter?

Don't be silly - of course he hasn't.. His power-related posts are characterised by the same wilful misunderstandings every time. The annoying thing is, he never comes back to defend his ridiculous comments.

TONY.M

Team4Luke wrote:

I wish people would not bang on abour HR being effected by allsorts, unless you pile down a load of drugs or huge amounts of coffee or really quite ill then it is quite stable especially at constant tempo efforts.

Hi Team4Luke,

They are mentioning this because it is very true and important to note, even cardiac drift as noted above by cougie is often very considerable and also varies from time to time and from person to person considerably and without any obvious changes in training or lifestyle that would cause it.

Most experienced powermeter users will note that HR is not all it is often made out to be and can be sneakily fluctuating about independent of power produced and independent of actual fitness.

Unlike power HR should never be the target.

Tony

Wrath Rob

I find HR an interesting recovery metric, i.e. how much does my HR decrease by in 1 minute after an interval? The quicker it decays (if that's the right phrase for heart rate!) the fitter I am, especially with things like intervals. Of course, its still affected by other factors (envrionment, health etc) so is not the be all and end all, but is still useful.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Wrath Rob wrote:

I find HR an interesting recovery metric, i.e. how much does my HR decrease by in 1 minute after an interval? The quicker it decays (if that's the right phrase for heart rate!) the fitter I am, especially with things like intervals. Of course, its still affected by other factors (envrionment, health etc) so is not the be all and end all, but is still useful.

I find the power I can actually sustain during an effort is a far better indicator of fitness.

wallace_and_gromit

Surely targeting power, applying heart rate limits ang going by "feel" all need to be used in combination.

If target power for the hour long turbo session you have planned is x watts, and 20 minutes into the hour, you're averaging x watts but your heart rate is already 10-15bpm higher than normal for this stage then you need to modify your plan?

If you're aiming for a recovery session then doing it 10-15bpm higher than normal converts it to a much harder session, thus disrupting the longer term training plan. If you're aiming for a "flat out" hour, then you'll need to slow down at some point to miminise losses, and avoid the downside of a "fly and die". Again, blindly targeting a particular power level could be counterproductive.

And if you feel dreadful two or three sessions in a row then you probably need to back off for a while, irrespective of what the training plan, HRM or powermeter says.

FWIW, I target speed (on my turbo) for "hard" sessions and heart rate for recovery / easier / tempo sessions, but always guided by "feel", as I'm not as young as I was, sadly.

marcusjb

What makes you think someone training with power is 'blindly targeting a particular power level'?

wallace_and_gromit

marcusjb wrote:

What makes you think someone training with power is 'blindly targeting a particular power level'?

I don't think they do, in general, and for good reasons. At least not those who apply a bit of common sense to what they're doing. There will be some who do, though.

The debate does tend to be framed in a binary context though i.e. power or heart rate etc, whereas the reality of optimising training is much more complex, accounting for multiple factors.

poynedexter

so if i did want to train with power, what set up would i need and how much would it cost to convert a road bike. what would i need to get the data onto my laptop?

sorry for the stupid question here.

ric/rstsport

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Surely targeting power, applying heart rate limits ang going by "feel" all need to be used in combination.

If target power for the hour long turbo session you have planned is x watts, and 20 minutes into the hour, you're averaging x watts but your heart rate is already 10-15bpm higher than normal for this stage then you need to modify your plan?

If you're aiming for a recovery session then doing it 10-15bpm higher than normal converts it to a much harder session, thus disrupting the longer term training plan. If you're aiming for a "flat out" hour, then you'll need to slow down at some point to miminise losses, and avoid the downside of a "fly and die". Again, blindly targeting a particular power level could be counterproductive.

And if you feel dreadful two or three sessions in a row then you probably need to back off for a while, irrespective of what the training plan, HRM or powermeter says.

FWIW, I target speed (on my turbo) for "hard" sessions and heart rate for recovery / easier / tempo sessions, but always guided by "feel", as I'm not as young as I was, sadly.

to clarify, your HR does *not* determine the intensity of a session, which is what you're implying with this point: "If you're aiming for a recovery session then doing it 10-15bpm higher than normal converts it to a much harder session"

It could well be that the session feels harder than it's meant to be and at the same time your HR is elevated, and there may be good reason to reduce the intensity or stop, but it's not HR that defines this but power and feel.

furthermore, it's possible that you had a couple of days rest prior to doing some sort ofhard training and your HR is significantly raised because of that, or because of e.g. thermal stress. It's still perfectly possible to continue with your training at your desired power (if you can maintain the desired power).

Remember, that HR is only one aspect in a variety of complex mechanisms. It's just the speed at which your heart is beating. It doesn't take into account your stroke volume or cardiac output.

Ric

wallace_and_gromit

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

to clarify, your HR does *not* determine the intensity of a session...

And yet, if I do a turbo session of fixed length with a heart rate throughout the second half (i.e. once I'm warmed up and heart rate has settled) at 130bpm then it is always "easy" whereas if the heart rate throughout the second half is at 170bpm, then the session is "hard".

I'm not thinking that a particular heart rate means exactly the same level of intensity from one day to the next, but for me, the 130bpm scenario means sweating lightly, and able to coverse easily with passing family members, whereas the 170bpm scenario usually leaves me struggling to remember my name. So there must be some correlation between heart rate and intensity. No-one's heart rate varies so much that on one day they can complete a set piece of work at 130bpm, with the same work requiring 170bpm a few days later.

Interesting subject. Maybe the devil is in the detail of the definition of intensity.

wallace_and_gromit

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

It's still perfectly possible to continue with your training at your desired power (if you can maintain the desired power).

This seems rather circular to me. Unless I've misread your post, you're saying it's perfectly possible to continue training at your desired power if you can maintain the desired power. I don't think anyone will dispute this!

ric/rstsport

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

to clarify, your HR does *not* determine the intensity of a session...

And yet, if I do a turbo session of fixed length with a heart rate throughout the second half (i.e. once I'm warmed up and heart rate has settled) at 130bpm then it is always "easy" whereas if the heart rate throughout the second half is at 170bpm, then the session is "hard".

perhaps determine was the wrong word to use? What i mean is that HR doesn't set the intensity, HR is a *dependent* variable. It's the power you're producing that sets the intensity (power being the independent variable).

Our intensity is determined by power. HR responds accordingly, but can vary for a multitude of reasons, which is using power to train with is, in my opinion, significantly better than using HR.

Of course when there is such a large difference as in your example, you could well think/feel that HR governs the intensity. But, if HR is tighter (say 10 b/min) it could be the lower HR which has the higher intensity, while the HR could be higher with a lower power for a multitude of reasons (e.g. thermal stress, altitude, etc).

ric

ric/rstsport

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

It's still perfectly possible to continue with your training at your desired power (if you can maintain the desired power).

This seems rather circular to me. Unless I've misread your post, you're saying it's perfectly possible to continue training at your desired power if you can maintain the desired power. I don't think anyone will dispute this!

i'm saying - if you read the sentence before - that your HR can be significantly elevated and so long as you can ride at the power then you can ride at it. For e.g., years back i conducted a thermal stress session, at a moderate intensity (< TT power) in a very hot and humid environment (~40oC and ~100% humidity). It was extremely unpleasant (for me at least) and while the intensity was low (power < TT power), my HR was super high. Way above TT HR and quite close to HRmax. I still rode through it. In fact if memory serves me correctly, the HR i recorded for that session was higher than any other session i've ever done for that time duration. In other words HR didn't define the intensity.

Ric

wallace_and_gromit

Ric - Thanks for the considered responses. We are on the same wavelength here but I needed to get my head round the terminology.

ric/rstsport

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Ric - Thanks for the considered responses. We are on the same wavelength here but I needed to get my head round the terminology.

i'm trying to think if i could have worded differently. been a tiring day! keep asking questions!

Max Bridges

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

It's still perfectly possible to continue with your training at your desired power (if you can maintain the desired power).

This seems rather circular to me. Unless I've misread your post, you're saying it's perfectly possible to continue training at your desired power if you can maintain the desired power. I don't think anyone will dispute this!

i'm saying - if you read the sentence before - that your HR can be significantly elevated and so long as you can ride at the power then you can ride at it. For e.g., years back i conducted a thermal stress session, at a moderate intensity (< TT power) in a very hot and humid environment (~40oC and ~100% humidity). It was extremely unpleasant (for me at least) and while the intensity was low (power < TT power), my HR was super high. Way above TT HR and quite close to HRmax. I still rode through it. In fact if memory serves me correctly, the HR i recorded for that session was higher than any other session i've ever done for that time duration. In other words HR didn't define the intensity.

Ric

Ric,

Your heart rate may not have defined the intensity of the power output but it did reflect the total stress your body was under. Your heart was working extra hard to cope with the excessive heat.

So although your power output may have been low and would have only accumulated few TSS points to reflect that low power output, you were put under considerably more stress overall, particularly your cardio vascular system.
It is highly probable that the session would have had a far greater training effect than the low power output would suggest. There is, I believe some research which points to training in excessive heat having a performance benefit similar to training at altitude.

I'm not suggesting it is better to train with heart rate than with power, but heart rate can give you useful information alongside power.

ric/rstsport

we weren't talking about the stress on the body, but about the intensity.

i haven't mentioned stress, or TSS

The temperature/thermal stress was just there as a way to illustrate things.

So, for clarity, i'll state again HR doesn't define intensity, it's power that does this. HR is a dependent not independent variable.

Ric

Max Bridges

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

we weren't talking about the stress on the body, but about the intensity.

i haven't mentioned stress, or TSS

The temperature/thermal stress was just there as a way to illustrate things.

So, for clarity, i'll state again HR doesn't define intensity, it's power that does this. HR is a dependent not independent variable.

Ric

Ric,

Sorry wasn't arguing, just commenting on the fact heart rate was so elevated by heat stress. Something I'm seeing a lot of in the gym where I do my training.

I see massive variations in heart rate day to day depending on if the air conditioning is on or not. I'm also finding the sessions in excessive heat very effective.

Max Bridges

I have also found that these temperature variations make it impossible to compare heart rate to power from session to session. With the temperature varying, sometimes the air con switches on mid session or switches off mid session, some days the gym is cool others excessively hot, and with no fan you get hotter and hotter whatever the temperature, there is no stable relationship between power and heart rate.

I have found the heart rate reflects how stressful the session was though. Very hot very high heart rate sessions take longer to recover from than a cooler session at the same power, (yet they get the same TSS?).

So I agree entirely with Ric that power is far superior to heart rate.

I use 1. Feel, 2. Power when & if available, 3.Heart rate. But I never use heart rate as some sort of proxy for power. One use I put it to is to judge the total stress of a training session, this combined with power, in my opinion gives a clearer picture of training than power alone.

buckles

Hi Trev

ozzzyosborn206

Ric something i don't quite understand in relation to power and high heat and humidity is like you say when it is very hot and humid your HR will be elevated compared to 'normal conditions' and you would probably be unable to produce the same power your would in normal conditions due to the heat so by my thinking does that not mean that power would then not be the constant that you could use to determine your intensity by and what you may normally be able to hold for an hour long TT you could not hold for a 20min TT? The heart rate you could maintain would be a similar level to normal conditions though?

I have only just got a power meter but in July I did the island Games in Bermuda and lots of the guys who had power said their power they could maintain was a fair way lower than normal despite their RPE still being maxed out. I think Andrew Roche who won the time trial reckoned he was about 50watts down?

ric/rstsport

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

Ric something i don't quite understand in relation to power and high heat and humidity is like you say when it is very hot and humid your HR will be elevated compared to 'normal conditions' and you would probably be unable to produce the same power your would in normal conditions due to the heat so by my thinking does that not mean that power would then not be the constant that you could use to determine your intensity by and what you may normally be able to hold for an hour long TT you could not hold for a 20min TT? The heart rate you could maintain would be a similar level to normal conditions though?

I have only just got a power meter but in July I did the island Games in Bermuda and lots of the guys who had power said their power they could maintain was a fair way lower than normal despite their RPE still being maxed out. I think Andrew Roche who won the time trial reckoned he was about 50watts down?

as mentioned to Trev, maybe thermal stress wasn't the best example.

anyway, yes, in a hot environment it's likely that people who are not acclimated will produce lower power (but you'll likely travel faster due to air density being less). It is also possible and normal that your HR could be significantly elevated (which is what i was wanting to illustrate with this point). It doesn't mean that you're getting the benefit of a higher intensity (with the higher HR). It's very likely that if you continually trained at a lower power with a higher HR (in a thermally challenging environment) rather than a more thermo-neutral environment and higher power that your fitness would decline (just like if you go to altitude and train at a high altitude your fitness will decline -- this is why you have the live high - train low idea).

ric

wallace_and_gromit

Ozzy - I spent many years doing TTs on my rowing machine, which is based round the same powermeter as in the Wattbike, and pretty accurate, by all accounts. Said machine lived in the loft, I found that temperature and humidity had a massive impact on performance, as measured by average power or distance rowed. The loft was very sensitive to external conditions, with measured tempartures ranging from near freezing to over 30C. Once things warmed up past 15C, for a given heart rate, performance declined. The accepted wisdom was that the body had to expend a lot of energy simply cooling itself down. (Rowing is actually slightly sweatier than turbo work, based on my experience of both.)

From optimium conditions (for me below 10C) to the mid 20s, sustainable power for a given heart rate dropped by around 10%. Pacing strategies and perceived exertion by heart rate were essentially the same as in optimum conditions, but the pace/power was reduced. It was a bit easier to get very high heart rates when it was hot, but 9 times out of 10, the heart rate was an excellent guide to how hard you were working (as opposed to what was being applied to the machine) and upwards deviations from usual heart rate schedules always had an unpleasant result - one simply couldn't maintain the work throughout the session, even though it was in theory an achievable pace.

cougie

Certainly for running most of the energy used is just trying to keep the body cool. I'd imagine with windchill its not quite so bad for cycling.