Heart rate training beginner.

Liv3rman

Hi guys.
I have recently started to use a heart rate monitor with my Garmin 500 when I ride. After reading tons of internet bumf about HR training I'm finding it a little confusing. My personal details are 5'8" tall, weighing 198lbs (a little overweight i know!), and I have been road cycling around 60 miles a week for 4 months now.
I am spending approx 85% of a 25 mile ride with around 1000ft elevation in heart rate zones 4 and 5. My average is around 170bpm and my max (based on the calculated rate) would be 180. I do not feel lime I am working that hard, never get short of breath, which I surely would at this level sustained for 1.5 hours.
I just wondered if anyone could offer any enlightenment? Should I slow down because of a risk of problems?
Many thanks for any advice.

Liv3rman

Thanks for the reply Luke.
So I guess my max must be more than 180 if I can sustain 170 for long periods? Is having a higher max a good or bad thing?

phil s

Having a higher max is neither a good nor a bad thing, it just is what it is. The thing to do now is make sure you establish knowledge of a more realistic figure to base your training on. You wouldn't find training in zone 4 and 5 "not that hard"

imposter2.0

Liv3rman wrote:

Thanks for the reply Luke.
So I guess my max must be more than 180 if I can sustain 170 for long periods? Is having a higher max a good or bad thing?

Doesn't sound like you know what your true max actually is - which you really need to do if you are serious about HR training.

gotwood25

I reckon a good way of determining max HR is to do a Sufferfest interval session.
My Strava Max HR was calculated from around a years worth of rides, this was bumped up 3bpm after my first Sufferfest session (A Very Dark Place).

I have since done a LT test which I would recommend in setting your training zones more accurately.

A max of 180 though does seem very low though, think I get higher than that on the toilet!

Tom Dean

gotwood25 wrote:

I reckon a good way of determining max HR is to do a Sufferfest interval session.

Unlikely. Just do a proper test.

raymond82

Better still is to ride a 30 minute time trial, and using Strava/Garmin Connect/Golden Cheetah, find your average HR for the final 20 minutes. Call this your LTHR (Lactate Threshold Heart Rate) and find your training zones based on that, using the table in this article:

I just had a look at my HR at Alpe d'Huez this year (when I tried to get up as fast as I could) and found that my average HR in the last 20 mins of the first half an hour of climbing was 186. Unfortunately the link to how to use the zones for training doesn't work anymore and I find different things online. At what percentage of LTHR should I be biking during endurance training?

Tom Dean

raymond82 wrote:

Better still is to ride a 30 minute time trial, and using Strava/Garmin Connect/Golden Cheetah, find your average HR for the final 20 minutes. Call this your LTHR (Lactate Threshold Heart Rate) and find your training zones based on that, using the table in this article:

I just had a look at my HR at Alpe d'Huez this year (when I tried to get up as fast as I could) and found that my average HR in the last 20 mins of the first half an hour of climbing was 186. Unfortunately the link to how to use the zones for training doesn't work anymore and I find different things online. At what percentage of LTHR should I be biking during endurance training?

The link is ok for me. Here is the same article http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/posts/2012/5/4/joe-friels-quick-guide-to-setting-zones.html

BUT: you have not established your LTHR under this system. Do a proper test.

raymond82

Tom Dean wrote:

raymond82 wrote:

Better still is to ride a 30 minute time trial, and using Strava/Garmin Connect/Golden Cheetah, find your average HR for the final 20 minutes. Call this your LTHR (Lactate Threshold Heart Rate) and find your training zones based on that, using the table in this article:

I just had a look at my HR at Alpe d'Huez this year (when I tried to get up as fast as I could) and found that my average HR in the last 20 mins of the first half an hour of climbing was 186. Unfortunately the link to how to use the zones for training doesn't work anymore and I find different things online. At what percentage of LTHR should I be biking during endurance training?

The link is ok for me. Here is the same article http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/posts/2012/5/4/joe-friels-quick-guide-to-setting-zones.html

BUT: you have not established your LTHR under this system. Do a proper test.

My plan is to do a real test next year, for now I think this is something to go by. Thanks for the link! The one provided before also worked with me but in there the link under "my training plans" did not work. In the new link it does work!

Tom Dean

Ok but bear in mind there is no specific 'LTHR'. The best estimate you can make would be an average from multiple proper tests. The more (and the more recent) the better. Why do you prefer to use a figure from a single, wrong test protocol, months old?

raymond82

Tom Dean wrote:

Ok but bear in mind there is no specific 'LTHR'. The best estimate you can make would be an average from multiple proper tests. The more (and the more recent) the better. Why do you prefer to use a figure from a single, wrong test protocol, months old?

I guess that's a good point, after reading the previous post about how to estimate the LTHR I thought the Alpe d'Huez climb was a good reference. I find it easier to go all out on a climb than on the flat while having to take turns etc, I'd have to look for an appropriate route to test that here. But you're right, it would be interesting to do it again as it was quite warm the day in the Alps. Next year, if by then I can afford it, I would like to do a real test.

ednino

Liv3rman wrote:

Thanks for the reply Luke.
So I guess my max must be more than 180 if I can sustain 170 for long periods? Is having a higher max a good or bad thing?

I average 180bpm for a 2 hour race
My max is 201bpm
Most normal rides im at 170-175 for long periods

Do a proper test because i think you'll find your max to be higher than 180

sandwats

Can anyone help out with a query about the 'mixed muscle zone'. I've been training using a HRM for a few months, following various turbo training workout suggestions online. Working mainly in what I understood to be zones 3 and 4, Tempo and Threshold.

However, I read yesterday that it's important to avoid training in the 'mixed muscle zone', as you're supposedly fatiguing all your muscle groups at the same time. But I can't find any definitive indication of where this zone lies in terms of percentage of maximum HR.

Does anyone else bother about avoiding this mixed muscle zone? The zones I've been following go straight from Tempo to Threshold with no indication of any zone to avoid.

Cheers in advance for any help..

imposter2.0

It's probably ok to avoid training in the 'mixed muscle zone' - provided you avoid racing in it as well. The fact that there are few available definitions of it is probably all you need to know about it...

sandwats

Cheers - I take it from that you're basically saying 'don't worry about it'?!

imposter2.0

sandwats wrote:

Cheers - I take it from that you're basically saying 'don't worry about it'?!

To be honest, I've never heard of it as a training zone, or in terms of training advice. So I'm not going to start worrying about it now

Alex_Simmons/RST

sandwats wrote:

Can anyone help out with a query about the 'mixed muscle zone'. I've been training using a HRM for a few months, following various turbo training workout suggestions online. Working mainly in what I understood to be zones 3 and 4, Tempo and Threshold.

However, I read yesterday that it's important to avoid training in the 'mixed muscle zone', as you're supposedly fatiguing all your muscle groups at the same time. But I can't find any definitive indication of where this zone lies in terms of percentage of maximum HR.

Does anyone else bother about avoiding this mixed muscle zone? The zones I've been following go straight from Tempo to Threshold with no indication of any zone to avoid.

Cheers in advance for any help..

Sounds like another phrase for the "no man's land" zone, which is of course nonsense. Adaptations from training are on a continuum across all the intensities we ride at.

What does however makes sense is not trainng at the same level all the time, as variety of training stimulus is important for fitness development. Of course if you just like riding your bike and don't care all that much about attaining fitness beyond the riding you currently do, then it doesn't matter much.

pandazoo

Thanks all some interesting points, great help. Can anyone point me in the direction of some indoor training plans for the winter? Cheers.

dw300

pandazoo wrote:

Thanks all some interesting points, great help. Can anyone point me in the direction of some indoor training plans for the winter? Cheers.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/plans

pandazoo

Thanks for the reply

bahzob

This is a good source for indoor training plans, since the sessions are by definition quite short. It's suitable for beginners or more advanced riders and for those wanting to train to race or train for a long steady ride/sportive.

It also has all that you need in order to test your HR and set appropriate zones.

Don't let the fact that the author is a t.o.s.s.e.r put you off, the content is in fact very good, especially if you fit the target demographic of those who want to train hard but don't have much time in which to do it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=time+crunched+cyclist&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=27744418501&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18569382342096101546&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_7fzhp764p1_e

izza

I've started using a Sportiiiis and Viiiiva package.

Gives you hr zones without always looking down at the Garmin, ties in with Strava for saving data and on desired segments shows me my real time progress.

Max Bridges

Is it even a good idea to take the heart rate route to cycle training?

Tom Dean

bahzob wrote:

Don't let the fact that the author is a t.o.s.s.e.r put you off,

Is this really necessary every time?

The fact you keep making these insults says something about you, which anyone taking your advice is going to be ignoring. The comment sort of makes itself redundant.

ai_1

Liv3rman wrote:

Hi guys.
I have recently started to use a heart rate monitor with my Garmin 500 when I ride. After reading tons of internet bumf about HR training I'm finding it a little confusing. My personal details are 5'8" tall, weighing 198lbs (a little overweight i know!), and I have been road cycling around 60 miles a week for 4 months now.
I am spending approx 85% of a 25 mile ride with around 1000ft elevation in heart rate zones 4 and 5. My average is around 170bpm and my max (based on the calculated rate) would be 180. I do not feel lime I am working that hard, never get short of breath, which I surely would at this level sustained for 1.5 hours.
I just wondered if anyone could offer any enlightenment? Should I slow down because of a risk of problems?
Many thanks for any advice.

As others have said, your max HR may be a lot different to what you get from any of the typical formulas. For example I'm 37 and the usual 220 minus age formula would suggest a max HR of 183 however I know mine is at least 193 on the bike and I've had it up to 199 while running in the last 12 months (had a thorough heart function check a year ago so was pretty confident I'd be okay to do an all out effort for the purposes of checking max HR). Minimum HR is some indicator of fitness but max HR doesn't really tell you anything except what your max HR is.

My HR can average high 160s for up to about an hour or I can manage low 160-162 for 4hrs. When I was less fit and a few years younger I could have averaged around 175 for half an hour but not anymore. I assume that's because my cardio system is now better able to accomodate the demands of my muscles and oxygen/bloodflow aren't the limiting factor anymore - don't know really!