Biggest rip-off in a cycle product? (courtesy of Campagnolo)
Comments
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mrushton wrote:The 80th anniversary ser they brought out was some ridiculous price compared to the standard SR. And there is the special chain tool at £150 or buying a KMC link for £3(?) As for brakes? DA are arguably the best out there for the money and I use Campagnolo (I don't go that quick) and Shimano do 2 deep drop options. Of course they don't have the Italian 'heritage and design'
The special chain tool is just a legitimate tax for people daft enough not to use quick links.
As for DA brakes - people do say they are 'arguably the best' but there are never actually any facts to back this up. Have they been shown to be more effective than Campag Skeletons? If so, why? Is the metal stiffer, is the design more rigid? Are they much lighter for the money? It's all very well trotting out a well worn phrase but when that phrase is never supplied with any actual justification I get suspicious! Given that there is no real world difference between my SR brakes and my Centaur brakes (as I would expect - they are just a couple of levers, a pivot and a spring after all) I think I am reasonably justified in being sceptical!Faster than a tent.......0 -
It's a small price to pay for peace of mind for me, I'd rather stick with what I know from my own experience is 100% reliable. I'm not saying that the quick links aren't, just that I don't have personal experience to back it up and I really, really don't like chains snapping (I've had it happen years ago while commuting in traffic resulting in a random crash that could have been much worse). The tool is a one-off purchase, and it's also just a very good quality general workshop chain tool. You could justify the purchase on the latter grounds alone.Rolf F wrote:The special chain tool is just a legitimate tax for people daft enough not to use quick links.0 -
I once borrowed a bike (that I now own) and there was a differnce between the DA brakes on the bike and the Record I had at home. Perhaps it's the dual pivot on the rear but for me there was a difference but not enough to swap over.M.Rushton0
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Rolf F wrote:As for DA brakes - people do say they are 'arguably the best' but there are never actually any facts to back this up. Have they been shown to be more effective than Campag Skeletons? If so, why? Is the metal stiffer, is the design more rigid? Are they much lighter for the money? It's all very well trotting out a well worn phrase but when that phrase is never supplied with any actual justification I get suspicious! Given that there is no real world difference between my SR brakes and my Centaur brakes (as I would expect - they are just a couple of levers, a pivot and a spring after all) I think I am reasonably justified in being sceptical!
I have Centaur Skeletons (2009) and DA 9000s and the latter are definitely more powerful, or at least they flex less. Both are excellent though.0 -
neeb wrote:
It's a small price to pay for peace of mind for me, I'd rather stick with what I know from my own experience is 100% reliable. I'm not saying that the quick links aren't, just that I don't have personal experience to back it up and I really, really don't like chains snapping (I've had it happen years ago while commuting in traffic resulting in a random crash that could have been much worse). The tool is a one-off purchase, and it's also just a very good quality general workshop chain tool. You could justify the purchase on the latter grounds alone.Rolf F wrote:The special chain tool is just a legitimate tax for people daft enough not to use quick links.
Park Tools offer a similar products - the CT4.3 for £59.95 (Parkers) and a portable version CT6 for £17.95. Even Parks CT4.2 chain splitter with the CT11 peener is still half the Campag. price. Still, no-one gets rich underestimating the public.M.Rushton0 -
You can get the Record / SR ones with a dual pivot on the rear if you want, in which case I can't believe the functioning would be significantly different. Within the campagnolo range at least, you are purely paying for weight savings with the more expensive models.mrushton wrote:I once borrowed a bike (that I now own) and there was a differnce between the DA brakes on the bike and the Record I had at home. Perhaps it's the dual pivot on the rear but for me there was a difference but not enough to swap over.0 -
It's not quite as nice as the Campagnolo one though. Given that people are happy to pay vast sums for the bling value of a label one level up the model line when it comes to things such as shifters and dérailleurs, I hardly think that being willing to pay a few quid more for a really high quality, if slightly overpriced, workshop chaintool designed specifically for the system you use by the manufacturer themselves is necessarily a symptom of irredeemable idiocy...mrushton wrote:Park Tools offer a similar products - the CT4.3 for £59.95 (Parkers) and a portable version CT6 for £17.95. Even Parks CT4.2 chain splitter with the CT11 peener is still half the Campag. price. Still, no-one gets rich underestimating the public. Each to their own, I enjoy owning and using my campagnolo chain tool. 0 -
neeb wrote:
I will see your 76.99 RRP for 4, and raise you to 89.98 RRP for 4
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-flash ... er-blocks/0 -
The thing that really put me off the Campag chain tools is that the 11-speed version (unlike the competing Park CT 4.3 or Pedro's Tutto) isn't even backwards compatible with 10-speed! So if, like me, you currently have a 10-speed setup, you can't buy the 11-speed tool as a long term investment, you have to buy the 10-speed tool now and then the 11-speed tool if you upgrade later. Each of the Campag tools is more than double the price of the Park CT 4.3, which looks like a high quality gadget.0
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How much does a brake pad weigh? 5 grams, I would assume... that makes it £ 4 per gram, which is way more than silver and not far off the price of gold... better to collect those shavings...
left the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:How much does a brake pad weigh?
Each shoe is 15 grams including pad and mounting hardware, for the TRP's at least. 60 grams for the 2 pairs0 -
itsnotarace wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:How much does a brake pad weigh?
Each shoe is 15 grams including pad and mounting hardware, for the TRP's at least. 60 grams for the 2 pairs
Oh, that makes sense then... same price/weight as your Zipp rims, give or take... left the forum March 20230 -
Miowwwww... saucer of milk for one!
I run Corima cork pads to save an extra 4 grams per pad. Every little counts!0 -
MajorMantra wrote:Rolf F wrote:As for DA brakes - people do say they are 'arguably the best' but there are never actually any facts to back this up. Have they been shown to be more effective than Campag Skeletons? If so, why? Is the metal stiffer, is the design more rigid? Are they much lighter for the money? It's all very well trotting out a well worn phrase but when that phrase is never supplied with any actual justification I get suspicious! Given that there is no real world difference between my SR brakes and my Centaur brakes (as I would expect - they are just a couple of levers, a pivot and a spring after all) I think I am reasonably justified in being sceptical!
I have Centaur Skeletons (2009) and DA 9000s and the latter are definitely more powerful, or at least they flex less. Both are excellent though.
You'd need to back that up with numbers. Trouble with comparisons is that feel isn't really enough. For example - are the DAs really more 'powerful' or are you really feeling a difference in leverage ratio - which might, for example, give better modulation on the Campags at the expense of greater throw for maximum stopping power (which might then feel less powerful but ultimately stop the bike in the same distance).
As Neeb says, you can get DP rear brakes on Campag but they shouldn't really make much difference. If you are maximising your stopping power on the front, the rears won't add much - you'll just be locking the rear wheel if you put much effort into them. That's why Campag use SP rear as standard - you get finer control/modulation with SP at the expense of (unnecessary) braking power. If you think about it, logically it doesn't make sense to have the same brakes on the back as on the front.Faster than a tent.......0 -
itsnotarace wrote:I run Corima cork pads to save an extra 4 grams per pad. Every little counts!
I always use half worn pads as every little countsneeb wrote:I hardly think that being willing to pay a few quid more for a really high quality, if slightly overpriced, workshop chaintool designed specifically for the system you use by the manufacturer themselves is necessarily a symptom of irredeemable idiocy... Each to their own, I enjoy owning and using my campagnolo chain tool.
It is irredeemably idiotic but endearing and understandable with it!Faster than a tent.......0 -
RDW wrote:The thing that really put me off the Campag chain tools is that the 11-speed version (unlike the competing Park CT 4.3 or Pedro's Tutto) isn't even backwards compatible with 10-speed! So if, like me, you currently have a 10-speed setup, you can't buy the 11-speed tool as a long term investment, you have to buy the 10-speed tool now and then the 11-speed tool if you upgrade later. Each of the Campag tools is more than double the price of the Park CT 4.3, which looks like a high quality gadget.
That's odd. I've got the 10 speed tool and its fine for breaking 11 speed chains. I wonder if its the usual 'risk of death' propaganda Campagnolo put out?0 -
It'll be fine for breaking the 11sp chain, just not for joining it again using the Campagnolo special link pin. That has a bit of metal that has to be squashed on one side to lock the pin in (the technical term appears to be "peening"). If you are using the KMC quick link to join the chain however, I guess the 10sp tool (or any chain tool) will be fine for shortening the chain.APIII wrote:That's odd. I've got the 10 speed tool and its fine for breaking 11 speed chains. I wonder if its the usual 'risk of death' propaganda Campagnolo put out?0 -
P.S. On second thoughts, you probably should use an 11sp tool to break the chain if you are planning to join it again using the external link that you break - because the chain is narrower than the 10sp one you are likely to bend the external plates slightly with a 10sp tool, and you also need to make sure the pin of the tool is exactly aligned with the holes in the external plates or else you might damage them (the 11sp tool has a double pin to lock the chain so it's aligned with the pin of the tool).
However, if you are simply shortening or breaking a chain before joining it with a quick link, anything will do, as you are not reusing the external link(s) that you break, only the internal ones.0 -
neeb wrote:
It'll be fine for breaking the 11sp chain, just not for joining it again using the Campagnolo special link pin. That has a bit of metal that has to be squashed on one side to lock the pin in (the technical term appears to be "peening"). If you are using the KMC quick link to join the chain however, I guess the 10sp tool (or any chain tool) will be fine for shortening the chain.APIII wrote:That's odd. I've got the 10 speed tool and its fine for breaking 11 speed chains. I wonder if its the usual 'risk of death' propaganda Campagnolo put out?
Yeah, I have a peening tool for that. Just found it curious that the 11 speed tool can't break a 10 speed chain, which obviously doesn't need peening0 -
Rolf F wrote:MajorMantra wrote:Rolf F wrote:As for DA brakes - people do say they are 'arguably the best' but there are never actually any facts to back this up. Have they been shown to be more effective than Campag Skeletons? If so, why? Is the metal stiffer, is the design more rigid? Are they much lighter for the money? It's all very well trotting out a well worn phrase but when that phrase is never supplied with any actual justification I get suspicious! Given that there is no real world difference between my SR brakes and my Centaur brakes (as I would expect - they are just a couple of levers, a pivot and a spring after all) I think I am reasonably justified in being sceptical!
I have Centaur Skeletons (2009) and DA 9000s and the latter are definitely more powerful, or at least they flex less. Both are excellent though.
You'd need to back that up with numbers. Trouble with comparisons is that feel isn't really enough. For example - are the DAs really more 'powerful' or are you really feeling a difference in leverage ratio - which might, for example, give better modulation on the Campags at the expense of greater throw for maximum stopping power (which might then feel less powerful but ultimately stop the bike in the same distance).
Ok, powerful is probably the wrong word. And no, I have no idea of the numbers involved, this is all subjective observation. My subjective assessment of that observation is that the Shimano levers are probably slightly stiffer and the combination of leverage ratio and brake construction (and maybe even cables for all I know) produces a very firm, and also very well modulated stopping ability which slightly exceeds that of any other brake system that I've tried.
It's splitting hairs anyway though as all current mid to high end stuff works really well. (At least with aluminium rims!)0 -
Here.. £61.59 http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-new-super-recordrecord-brake-shoes-pads-blk/
I save you money, you`re welcome.
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MajorMantra wrote:It's splitting hairs anyway though as all current mid to high end stuff works really well. (At least with aluminium rims!)
That's the thing isn't it. People listen to reviews saying such and such is better than such and such but, when it comes down to it, the difference is only apparent if you are switching between products - ie the relative difference is identifiable but the absolute difference isn't.Faster than a tent.......0 -
Can't argue with that, I think we have a new top contender! Somehow it doesn't seem so expensive when they are priced in pairs rather than in full sets of four. Sneaky...itsnotarace wrote:
I will see your 76.99 RRP for 4, and raise you to 89.98 RRP for 4
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-flash ... er-blocks/
At least they are bright yellow so people can tell you have shelled out for them.. 0 -
Umm... thanks...too slow to go wrote:Here.. £61.59 http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-new-super-recordrecord-brake-shoes-pads-blk/
I save you money, you`re welcome. 0 -
wiggle used to have a listing for a rear derraileur from the Lightweight company (who make the wheels) and they were £800 each, i actually LOLd when I first saw it"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
neeb wrote:
Umm... thanks...too slow to go wrote:Here.. £61.59 http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-new-super-recordrecord-brake-shoes-pads-blk/
I save you money, you`re welcome.
It's not quite so terrible at that price. A set of four Swissstops costs more than £20 and those are just blobs of rubber. If a pad (that lasts 8 weeks in winter) can be worth a fiver then the shoe could just be worth twice as much. With a following wind....... And a certain willingness to be financially mugged.......Faster than a tent.......0 -
correctneeb wrote:
Possibly the 10sp chain, being wider, won't fit into the bit of the tool that holds the chain? Just guessing.APIII wrote:Yeah, I have a peening tool for that. Just found it curious that the 11 speed tool can't break a 10 speed chain, which obviously doesn't need peeningPegoretti
Colnago
Cervelo
Campagnolo0 -
Ref: the Oakleys, I fell off my bike at the weekend and the left hand side of my face skidded across the road.
Result was one damaged helmet, a battered and bruised face, and my Oakleys are all scratched on the left lens and left hand side of the frame.
My head hit the road with some force, and I was surprised that the lenses hadn't actually smashed.
I do not know whether or not a cheaper pair would have stood up to the impact the same, but I am glad I had them on0 -
Contact Oakley.GA1 wrote:Ref: the Oakleys, I fell off my bike at the weekend and the left hand side of my face skidded across the road.
Result was one damaged helmet, a battered and bruised face, and my Oakleys are all scratched on the left lens and left hand side of the frame.
My head hit the road with some force, and I was surprised that the lenses hadn't actually smashed.
I do not know whether or not a cheaper pair would have stood up to the impact the same, but I am glad I had them on
They do a replacement service. Much cheaper than buying a new set.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0
