Reverb and seat clamp issues.

lawman

Just gone to fit my reverb to my Stanton, worked fine before and has been sat for a few weeks while I waited for my warranty situation to be sorted out. Long story short, I thought the frame was faulty as which ever clamp I used wouldn't hold the post tight enough. So sent the frame back, after a hugely drawn out process in which I was sent another frame, which I also considered faulty to then be told by Stanton I was a liar and the frames were fine. They sent the original frame back with a hope qr seatclamp claiming that it worked fine. They checked it with a normal seatpost. Rebuilt the bike ,fitted the post and the hope qr seatclamp was already on the frame. It wasn't tight enough to clamp the post properly so I tightened it a bit more so the post doesn't slip if enough force is applied. It's pretty damn tight. Went to drop the post and it went down with some considerable force and was very slow returning. Now it is locked solid, the lever won't return and I noticed oil leaking out of the hose by the head of the post... Checked online and it seems like overtightened seatclamps can have implications on the performance of the post (meant to be no more than 4nm on the seatclamp) Seems like far too much of a coincidence that it was fine beforehand but because the post is clamped so tightly to stop it sliding and twisting it's now got this issue. Any ideas?

supersonic

Both items could be at the limit of tolerance - in opposite directions. Have you tried another post?

supersonic

Oh, and why use a QR? I find the Hope ones to be bloody awful.

lawman

Tried the frames with several clamps, 3 different Hope QR, 2 hope bolted and a salsa bolted clamp. Also tried a Bontrager seatpost with the same results, the post just wasn't clamped enough to hold it tight. LBS picked up on the issue when they chopped the steerer on the bike for me. Since then (5 weeks ago!!) I've been trying to get it sorted to end up with the original frame that wouldn't clamp properly... I've tightened the hope qr clamp they supplied so it does hold the post tightly, but now I have the issues with my reverb, which given my research has thrown up the issue of over-tightening several times, I'm wondering whether its because of this my reverb's suddenly decided to piss oil and not work, as it hasn't been touched or used for weeks yet now decides it doesn't want to work.

supersonic

I'd clean the inside of the frame, then try one of these with the Bonty post:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/m-p ... p-ec039893

They even out the tension around the frame. I'd also use some carbon/assembly paste.

If it still fails, then I'd suspect the frame is over reemed.

lawman

The frame has never been used, I've built it, walked it to the LBS to get the steerer cut and then stripped it down, seat tube is perfectly clean. LBS have measured the reverb with some calipers and it came up slightly over sized, so it shouldn't be a problem. This has been going on for weeks and now it seems as a result of the frame being faulty I've had to do the clamp up so tight it's buggered my reverb, or that's how I see it anyway. The fact Stanton sent back the original frame that I got the LBS to verify was faulty (which they did) pissed me off, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt as being at uni and the frame being at home 100 miles away I figured I'd wait to see what was what. Do you think it's possible the over-tightening could have caused the post to fail as it has?

supersonic

How did they verify it? What did it measure at?

Impossible to tell really if it has caused the reverb to fail mind.

lawman

supersonic wrote:

How did they verify it? What did it measure at?

Impossible to tell really if it has caused the reverb to fail mind.

Vernier calipers. Can't remember the exact measurements, but they definitely said the post was slightly oversized on 31.6 it should be. The seat tube came out to be slightly ovalised as well. I mentioned this to Stanton and also the issue I had with the warranty frame they sent (it was damaged at the top of the seat tube and I couldn't fit the post, tried to force it and eventually it went in, again it didn't clamp securely when tested at the LBS and was visually "flat" at the point it was damaged). After numerous e-mails to Stanton about the issue I sent both frames back, I was told that they'd tried them with their own seatposts and BBB clamps and there were no issues and were sending the original frame back to me with a hope qr clamp, as that was all they had at the time. That was 2 weeks ago as I've only just managed to get the frame from home and rebuild the bike. To be brutally honest I'm seriously pissed off with the whole situation, I've bought the frame, built the bike, discovered an issue with both frames I've been sent, sent them back, been told there is no issue by Stanton and essentially been called a liar in an email I received and now this...

I can't think of any other reason for the post to suddenly develop this issue other than it being clamped to tight which stems from the frame being faulty.

Kowalski675

Note to self - don't buy a Stanton.

lawman

The service has been absolutely shite. I was initially told to send the frame back and the headset would be transferred to the new frame and then sent to me. They sent out a new frame before a courier was sent to collect the other, wasn't keen on sending the old frame back with headset as I'd been told it would be swapped by them. Thought hey ho, easy mistake to make, I'll get the LBS to sort the headsets and I've got a new frame, all is reasonably well. Checked new frame and I figured it was damaged as stated above. Explained to Stanton and sent both back, and then the arsey email arrived saying I'd given them "false information" and I'd wasted their time and money...

As I say I've only just got the original frame back and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't hold the post tight enough under normal torque settings and now I've tightened it so much it does it's bollocked my seat post up... I work at a solicitors and will be having words to see where I stand, cos frankly this whole situation is a total piss take that's cost me money trying to sort it travelling backwards and forwards home at £35 a time and once again I'm left with no bike to ride... :roll:

Kowalski675

Sounds like time to invoke sale of goods act, rejecting the frame as not fit for purpose and not of merchantable quality. If you're working in a solicitors then you're in the perfect position - presumably you can get a strongly worded solicitor's letter drafted free, insisiting on full refund, plus any costs incurred (carriage costs and LBS labour), plus compensation for your time, plus cost of reverb replacement/repair, if you believe that the substandard frame has caused the damage (and it sounds like it has - sounds like overtightening has crushed the reverb), all underlined by a nice threat of small claims court action...

Then take your money to a company who doesn't treat you like poop.

lawman

Kowalski675 wrote:

Sounds like time to invoke sale of goods act, rejecting the frame as not fit for purpose and not of merchantable quality. If you're working in a solicitors then you're in the perfect position - presumably you can get a strongly worded solicitor's letter drafted free, insisiting on full refund, plus any costs incurred (carriage costs and LBS labour), plus compensation for your time, plus cost of reverb replacement/repair, if you believe that the substandard frame has caused the damage (and it sounds like it has - sounds like overtightening has crushed the reverb), all underlined by a nice threat of small claims court action...

Then take your money to a company who doesn't treat you like poop.

Yep it's looking that way.

Kowalski675

It's a pain in the ass and a downer if that's the frame you had your heart set on, but if I'd been treated like crap and called a liar I'd rather take my money elsewhere.

lawman

Yeah I'm gutted. On paper it's perfect, 65 degree headangle, 24" top tube 18" seat tube, reverb compatible, takes a tapered fork, iscg tabs... The only thing that could top it is the Ti version! Cotic Bfe is close but I'm between the medium and large size wise, which is why I was so keen on the Stanton because the geometry is exactly what I'm looking for.

I bought new forks and headset for it as well, so that's limiting my options on other frames, tempted to get a refund, sell the kit, some of it un-used and BNIB and put it towards a Bronson when I graduate next summer.

Kowalski675

lawman wrote:

I bought new forks and headset for it as well, so that's limiting my options on other frames, tempted to get a refund, sell the kit, some of it un-used and BNIB and put it towards a Bronson when I graduate next summer.

Yeah, real pain in the butt that you've already cut the steerer to suit that frame. I know the way you feel now. I had a problem with my Triumph not long after buying it. Despite it being under warranty I was f****d off by Triumph, who refused to honour the warranty claim. I was left with a bill of over £400 that the dealer obviosuly wanted paying, which we negotiated down to £250 (which I was still very pi**ed off at having to pay. It was the bike I'd wanted for three years, but that really soured the experience, and at first I was going to sell it as a result of how I'd been treated, but ended up keeping it (partly 'cos I just couldn't be bothered with the hassle of putting all the stock parts back on and selling it).

There's a couple of lacklustre reviews of the Bronson In MBR and MBUK this month, but the criticisms seem to centre on the suspension units, rather than the frame (haven't read them in full, just scanned them in Tesco), but I'd want more tham 3.5 stars out of 5 if I was buying a 5 grand bike...

lawman

yeah stuff like this is never ideal and it nearly always ends up badly for the consumer, but hey ho, such is life I suppose.

Read both reviews in MBR and MBUK and I'm not overly worried, a shock tune is easy to put right and I know what I want from it, tbh it sounds similar to how my Mojo rides atm. Sounds like both mags used the standard CTD evo shock, the Kashima will help a bit but getting a tune for weight and riding style should be something you do as it's impossible for the manufacturers to make a shock that pleases everyone. My LBS can get a demo bike in and the cost of a weekend demo is refundable, plus I get 10% off anyway Can't really afford it atm, might just have to use the one bike for a while

Kowalski675

Yeah, from my brief scan of the reviews the criticism seemed to be directed at the forks and shock, which as you say are tuneable, and never going to suit every buyer (and may not even be what you'll be speccing yours with anyway). I don't weigh much, so motorcycle suspension units on standard bikes are generally over-sprung for me, my StripleR now wears £800 worth of bespoke, built to order Wilbers shock at the rear end, specced 5mm longer than standard, sprung and valved for my weight, and with the spring powdercoated in my choice of colour (RAL 2002 vermillion orange, for the record, lol).

My LBS are good with demos too. I had a Trek Rumblefish for 5 days (including a weekend). Normally there's a charge, refundable against a bike purchase, but they waived that, which was nice. My nearest Santa Cruz stockist is Stif Cycles at Summerbridge, have had a few drools over their bikes when I've been over to Stainburn trails. They had a lovely V10 carbon custom build in one time - circa £8.5 grand...

lawman

Anyways back on topic! Done some more research and it seems like over-tightening is a common thing that pops us when people have issues. Once the post was clamped so it didn't slip I carried on building the bike and tried to cycle the post a few times. It was hard to push down and slow returning, figured it had been sat for a few weeks so might be a bit laggy and a few cycles should get it sorted. Well it didn't, it got worse and then seized and starting leaking. My question is, has the seat clamp being so tight caused the post to break as I tried to cycle it? Is this the possible reason why it worked perfectly and no doesn't?

dusk

Makes sense, there must be a reason that Rockshox recommend the torque value they do. And with regard to your frame, if the tolerances are correct and you have friction paste applied then I've found you can get away with your seat qr being not very tight at all with no slippage issues.

lawman

Yep friction paste seems to be a common suggestion, will get some from the LBS and get them to bleed the Reverb and see what's going on with it.

shindig

Friction paste works for me. Also on my very old orange clockwork i had to use piece of coke tin a shim for my USE suspension seatpost. Worked well.

lawman

shindig wrote:

Friction paste works for me. Also on my very old orange clockwork i had to use piece of coke tin a shim for my USE suspension seatpost. Worked well.

On an old frame I can understand using a cut up bit of coke can, but considering the frame is brand new and cost me nearly £400, if I have to do then something is seriously wrong!!

Dick Scruttock

That's pretty terrible service. I would be returning the frame for a full refund. It sounds like the pressure from the seat clamp has definitely damaged the reverb.

I always use friction paste when fitting my reverb in any frame, in the Cotic I have had no issues at all, it's never slipped down and it has been great.

MBR rated the Orange 5 best trail bike a few years ago so that discredits any review they do ever. Rock Shox's new pike seems to be the latest jizzfest in all the mags and many seem to think they are the best thing since the wheel so I would not expect a entry level fox fork to hold a candle to it.

lawman

Will be getting my LBS to get the calipers on everything and see if they have any friction paste, get them to bleed the reverb and see if all that cures it.

I will definitely be putting Pikes on my next bike. Even if Fox can make the 34 a bit lighter and bring back the old RLC style damper, it's still nearly £350 more than the pike. I also think the murdered out Pikes look badass and would go very nicely with a murdered out Bronson C frame. Might ask in my LBS if they could supply it without the shock and fit a Monarch Plus or Float X.

Kowalski675

lawman wrote:

I also think the murdered out Pikes look badass

Me too. black stanchions should be mandatory. Fox's Kashima gold looks gash.

lawman

Kowalski675 wrote:

lawman wrote:

I also think the murdered out Pikes look badass

Me too. black stanchions should be mandatory. Fox's Kashima gold looks gash.

Have to disagree, I think they look awesome!

Horton

Not that it helps your particular situation, but to balance, I've got a Slackline (albeit one of the original 853 tubed ones) and I cannot fault the frame, nor the service I had before buying it (Dan even dropped it off in person in Bristol for me when he was passing through rather than me having to get it shipped and wait ages before I could pick it up from an out of town depot).

Not needed to use any after-sales service as its been faultless in the year+ that I've (ab)used it. Can't fault my experience... As I say, sorry, it's no help but just wanted to balance...

Kowalski675

lawman wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

lawman wrote:

I also think the murdered out Pikes look badass

Me too. black stanchions should be mandatory. Fox's Kashima gold looks gash.

Have to disagree, I think they look awesome!

Can't stand 'em myself. Tacky as f**k and straight from Gashville, Tennessee. Same with Ohlins. I just hate gold, full stop. Went to all the hassle of removing and stripping my brake calipers to have them anodised black, because the OE gold anodising disgusted me every time I looked at my bike and ruined the look of it, lol.

Dick Scruttock

Any joy with it?

lawman

Bikes in the LBS atm being looked at, don't have a bleed kit at uni so they're bleeding it and see if that fixes it. If it does then they'll try some friction paste. Same LBS I that told me it was faulty, the guys couldn't believe I'd been sent the original frame back. Either way I'm strongly considering asking for a refund and sending it back, been nothing but trouble and I'm fed up of it. I've been riding and building bikes for the best part of 10 years and have never had this amount of problems and such shocking service.

The Northern Monkey

This sucks mate... was looking forward to having a pedal on it!

TBH though, i'd let your LBS measure the tolerances and give an opinion before farting about with friction paste. decide at that point if you want to send it back and get your cash back.

I would have refused the same frame being returned though and just requested a refund there and then. as soon as I feel like i'm being pissed about I lose all faith in the company I'm dealing with!
After the debacle with my works headset which the LBS completely fecked up, I refuse to use the LBS again.