Gatorskin or 4Season

ugo.santalucia

Bordersroadie wrote:

When you get a flat like this it makes a mockery of all our deliberating about brand X and Y, TPI or whatever.

Hey ho!

Not really... I once found a rather big shard of glass planted inside my Randonneur PRO tyre, yet it did not get to the tube...

DiscoBoy

Bordersroadie wrote:

Well, it just goes to show...after not many miles on my lovely new Gator Hardshells (like Gatorskins but with a thicker tread and more sidewall protection) I drove through some hedge trimmings and got a thorn as hard as a bloody nail and as sharp as a needle right through the thickest, most protected part of the tread, right in the centre.

And it was dark. And raining. Of course.

When you get a flat like this it makes a mockery of all our deliberating about brand X and Y, TPI or whatever.

Hey ho!

Marathon plus would've coped

Bordersroadie

I anticipated those responses...

However, at least the Conti came off the rim and went back on quickly with no fuss, unlike the case with the tyres mentioned above.

I remain convinced it's far better to have a tyre that will very occasionally be unable to defend against super-hard thorns but is easy to remove/refit than a very heavy tyre that is almost impossible to change on a cold wet night.

Just like the tyres themselves, I feel that this debate could go round and round and round...

gabriel959

I use Marathon Pluses and they are great. I've had one puncture in 4k miles and they are still going strong.

Performance in the wet is very good, you have to a be a bit careful when the surface is slightly wet and there is gravel but otherwise they are fantastic, I have even ridden them around the muddy country park with no issues and no punctures.

The Randonneurs are great too, my wife has got them on her bike and she has never had a puncture in over 4 years, although I reckon she hasn't done more than 500 miles in them since I put them on!

mustol

I've got 25mm 4 Seasons on Fulcrum Racing 7 wheels (fit really easy by hand) and 23mm 4 Seasons on Shimano RS10s (can still fit by hand, but with some effort). Happy with the grip, rolling resistance and puncture resistance (especially 25mm) - although agree about the sidewalls - recently punctured front and rear 23mm tyres when I hit a pothole, running 90psi in front and 100psi in rear. I did try some Michelin Pro4 Endurance recently - couldn't get them on the RS10s - no way by hand and when I tried using the levers I pinched 2 tubes, so gave up and sent them back. I'll be sticking to the 4 Seasons.

blablablacksheep

this is just my opinion but..

When im training hard for a race id like to be able to ride corners like i would in a race, or at least keep speed through them...

I love gatorskins for commuting and love them for the chilled out mates rides we sometimes do but they utterly suck ball bags with corners, esp in the wet.

So ive decided to use normal GP 4000s for everything as their grip is great in corners, and yes they punture easily, but it depends on what you define as easily. Just use eyes more.

rant coming..

Most road cyclists just don't use their eyes enough, they too busy looking at their garmin to notice the 10inc thron in road .... :roll:

smidsy

Bordersroadie wrote:

I drove through some hedge trimmings and got a thorn as hard as a bloody nail and as sharp as a needle right through the thickest, most protected part of the tread, right in the centre.

No tyre would likely resist this - not sure what your issue is - other than riding through hedge trimmings.

birdie23

I've been riding GP4000S 25mm this winter. No punctures yet and no cutting either. Grip is pretty nice too. I did have Durano S 23mm on previously but they cut up pretty bad, got the GP4000S because of that and the fact Durano S don't come in 25mm which I wanted to try.

Monty Dog

Winter rides are typically 4-5 hours on narrow country roads strewn with flints and potholes, GP4000s would be shredded in 1 ride. 4 Seasons are ridiculously expensive for a training tyre - wore-out a pair but not prepared to pay £30+ each for replacements. Gave up on Gatorskins years ago - rubbish wet grip and cut too easily IME. 30mm Marathon Speed is providing to be comfy and reliable and others are getting sterling service out of Durano Pluses. I'd rather keep rolling and stay warm for a 1kph reduction in average speed than having to frequently stop for punctures. Lighter-weight tyres can wait for drier conditions / after Easter.

birdie23

Monty Dog wrote:

Winter rides are typically 4-5 hours on narrow country roads strewn with flints and potholes, GP4000s would be shredded in 1 ride. 4 Seasons are ridiculously expensive for a training tyre - wore-out a pair but not prepared to pay £30+ each for replacements. Gave up on Gatorskins years ago - rubbish wet grip and cut too easily IME. 30mm Marathon Speed is providing to be comfy and reliable and others are getting sterling service out of Durano Pluses. I'd rather keep rolling and stay warm for a 1kph reduction in average speed than having to frequently stop for punctures. Lighter-weight tyres can wait for drier conditions / after Easter.

Are you riding on shale trails Monty?! Plenty of hours on my GP4000S on the crappy Bedfordshire roads so far this winter and not a cut in sight.

Monty Dog

birdie23 wrote:

Are you riding on shale trails Monty?! Plenty of hours on my GP4000S on the crappy Bedfordshire roads so far this winter and not a cut in sight.

No, I'm riding on local roads (Hampshire, Surrey and Sussex) that see lots of farm and 4x4 traffic that distributes ample amounts of mud onto the road. The soil in these parts contains lots of small, 3-4mm razor like flints that simply shred tyres. When it rains, more flints get washed onto the roads. I've seen supposedly impregnable Marathon and Armadillo tyres sliced clean through. I have ridden in many other parts of the country, but apart from riding through broken glass, never experienced conditions so hard on tyres. It's a running joke on our group rides, but chances are, the rider with GP4000s will be the first to puncture.

rafletcher

I tried GP4seasons here in the Cotswolds, but the flints did for them in one ride! Now running bog standard Marathons, so far so good.

MattC59

I went for Duranos in the end, so far so good. Good feel and no p*******s. In fact on the first ride, 54 horrible wet rainy and muddy miles, my mate had two flats on gator skins and I was fine

How Far is too Far

I have 25mm Durano Plus on since November just sort of 1000miles and they still look almost new, no problems so far. Look like they will do go mileage.

Bordersroadie

smidsy wrote:

Bordersroadie wrote:

I drove through some hedge trimmings and got a thorn as hard as a bloody nail and as sharp as a needle right through the thickest, most protected part of the tread, right in the centre.

No tyre would likely resist this - not sure what your issue is - other than riding through hedge trimmings.

Smidsy, I think you missed the point, mate - I'm saying exactly what you're saying, ie that all my debating about what tyre to get counts for nothing when I ride over a thorn that would have gone through any tyre!

maltloaf_df

I've been much happier on my Duranos. Bought them just over a month ago when the gatorskins started to feel like ice skates. For £19 each I'm very happy

birdie23

Monty Dog wrote:

birdie23 wrote:

Are you riding on shale trails Monty?! Plenty of hours on my GP4000S on the crappy Bedfordshire roads so far this winter and not a cut in sight.

No, I'm riding on local roads (Hampshire, Surrey and Sussex) that see lots of farm and 4x4 traffic that distributes ample amounts of mud onto the road. The soil in these parts contains lots of small, 3-4mm razor like flints that simply shred tyres. When it rains, more flints get washed onto the roads. I've seen supposedly impregnable Marathon and Armadillo tyres sliced clean through. I have ridden in many other parts of the country, but apart from riding through broken glass, never experienced conditions so hard on tyres. It's a running joke on our group rides, but chances are, the rider with GP4000s will be the first to puncture.

Interesting, get a lot of flints here too because all the roads are below field level and flood so maybe I'm just lucky.

bigflangesmallsprocket

Since starting cycling again I've ridden Gatorskns, Rubino Pros, and Michelin Speediums.

The Gatorskins have always had a so-so reputation, but compared to tires I used in my yoof, I found these quite good. I DID have some issues with punctures initially, riding into work on a crappy industrial estate road. But that was before I discovered track pumps! Once up to a reasonable pressure they were fine and I had no problems with punctures ( being quite light, my tire pressures are relatively low anyway, but this did not adversely affect any puncture resistance once adjusted to correct pressure FOR MY WEIGHT), reasonably grippy (much better than any tire I'd used as a younger rider), and comfortable. The relative thickness of the rubber did mean that the occasional shard might get stuck in the compound, so regular inspection is essential, though this semi-regular occurance probably had more to do with the route I had to take to work than any inherent quality issues. Even when I had my initial puncture probs, the tires did not have any tendency to cuts, but were more prone to picking up small sharp shards, and as said, problem solved once pumped correctly.

Rubino Pros: A slightly nicer ride than the Gatorskins and more grippy, but more prone to surface cuts, probably due to a softer compound, but not affecting the carcass or causing more punctures. I can only recall having one puncture on these, though I never rode them on the same dodgy road that caused my Gatorskin punctures, I've a feeling that might have shredded these tires at the lower pressures I mentioned earlier.

Michelin Speediums: Censored awful! Bought these specifically as hardwearing winter tires. VERY hard tires, and probably hardwearing due to the hard compound, but I never really got a chance to give these a good testing. The grip was so bad I took them off after less than a month. Lots of tread, but very slippy in the wet; no use at all in icy conditions, I didn't get much further than the end of my driveway before giving up. They came off after a bad experience after a very wet and windy ride. Riding downhill in driving wind and rain I was all over the place, nearly into busy traffic on a straight but narrow country road. And no, it wasn't a case of speed-shimmy; I repeated the experience almost immediately after turning in toward town on the next downhill. Being aware of the possibility of subconciously over-gripping my bars due to the hard side-wind, I had the same experience with the wind behind me on the next quieter stretch, checking myself and how I was holding onto the bike, but with exactly the same results. I'd been persevering with these tires but this was the final straw, a very scary experience! It's possible that a heavier rider might be more 'planted' and secure on these tires, but I can't recommend them at all, quite the opposite in fact. A long review of these tires, but to tell you just how crap they are!

Of the three, I'd say the Gatorskins are more hardwearing and puncture-resistant; the Rubino Pros still good puncture resistance and reasonable wear, possibly not on industrial roads with lots of associated debris; the Michelin Speediums, stay away from unless you're entering a cyclists version of 'Dancing On Ice'!

MrSweary

Is it me or are a lot of people confusing Conti GP 4 Seasons with Conti GP4000s?

Anyway - have run 4 Seasons for 18 months now on 3 different bikes. Worth every penny for me - especially in the wet.

DeVlaeminck

Currently got gatorskins on the Winter bike. Very long lasting to the extent I can still see the centre seam on the front, no cuts or punctures after about 2k miles, feel wooden and don't grip in the wet.

Have previously run 4 seasons and they are more of a fast training tyre,in fact a first cat I used to know raced on them. My personal favourite was the Michelin Krylion carbon, I think the Pro4 Endurance is the modern equivalent but I have yet to try them.

FransJacques

Gatorskins ride like 1/2" plywood and they're dangerous when wet. NOT for spirited riding at all. Great for poodling sans speedy corners.

3 weeks ago on a frosty morning 3/4 of our group wiped out - 3/4 of them rode gatorskins. He who stayed up had the Grand Prix. I think the durometer of the rubber is all wrong for 0-3C grip. It's too hard.

I punctured on Pro4 Endurance's with 1.5 laps to go when in a 2-man break at cyclopark (of all places) so I can't say they're the best either but at Ribble they're certainly cheap @ £23.

TheDutch

4Season on the front and Gatorskin on the back for my London commute. The back one will be destroyed by glass long before the tyre is worn out, so the cheap, solid rubber makes sense there for me. Not so bothered about the poor wet grip at the back, there's no way I'd want one on the front though.

Todd Sweeney

I ran Michelin Krylion Carbons for years and they were great all year round. I switched to Open Pave's as I got them on sale at a good price and initially they were excellent - no punctures for the first year and they roll really beautifully. However, they just cannot handle the flints and small sharp objects spread on the lanes by the recent wet weather. Perhaps they wear out/degrade quickly too? They have cut up very badly over the last month and I've had 4 punctures since the turn of the year. They are now covered in slits.

I didn't really know what to go for as a replacement for the next few months - in the end I thought I'd give the Gatorskins a try. Ordered today - can't wait for them to come!