Is a cycling coach worth it?

Gazmania1

Hi all,

Wondered if anyone has any experience of having a coach who can give them specific advice and training plans? I've been cycling for about a year and seem to be fairly competent and now want to kick on a bit and have set myself a few targets for 2014 to achieve this. I'm planning on doing the Majorca 312, the Fred Whitton and the full 3 days of the Tour of Wessex all within a month of each other as well as some racing etc throughout the year. anyway, I've checked out online training plans and things like that and they all seem set and inflexible and my work hours are long and all over the place so I would like a situation where I give someone my hours for the upcoming week and they just tell me what to do.

Is this the kind of thing that a coach would do or am I expecting a bit much?

Any advice would be great.

nammynake

You'll find enough hints and tips by searching the web or posting specific questions in here. If you're short on time have a look at the time crunched cyclist. I've not used it but others rate it highly.

If you have no inclination to research training tips or have money burning a hole in your pocket then a coach will of course help you improve.

I can't offer advice on the Majorca ride but a simple training plan for the Fred Whitton is to do a long and hilly ride every weekend leading up to the event, for at least 2 or 3 months, gradually increasing your distance up to 80 or 90 miles (and with similar elevation gain per mile as the Fred). Mid week do 2 or 3 shorter intense rides or turbo session (e.g. the 2x20 format). I followed this approach for this years Fred Whitton and managed under 8 hours, which I was pleased with given the conditions.

w00dster

Hi Gaz,
I personaly would recommend a coach. Ive never used a cycling coach but I have for other sports and can vouch for the benefits of training focused on you rather than generic internet plans.
A coach will discuss in detail about what your goals are, what you are able to commit (time and nutrition). Any injuries you may have, or even had.
It would be worth getting in touch with a couch. There are some coaches on here who are very knowledgeable and who coach some elite athletes. Might be worth getting in touch with them (look at my thread regarding weight training).

BenderRodriguez

Isn't the coaching support available via British Cycling free?

ric/rstsport

Gazmania1 wrote:

Hi all,

Wondered if anyone has any experience of having a coach who can give them specific advice and training plans? I've been cycling for about a year and seem to be fairly competent and now want to kick on a bit and have set myself a few targets for 2014 to achieve this. I'm planning on doing the Majorca 312, the Fred Whitton and the full 3 days of the Tour of Wessex all within a month of each other as well as some racing etc throughout the year. anyway, I've checked out online training plans and things like that and they all seem set and inflexible and my work hours are long and all over the place so I would like a situation where I give someone my hours for the upcoming week and they just tell me what to do.

Is this the kind of thing that a coach would do or am I expecting a bit much?

Any advice would be great.

That's exactly what you'd expect from coaching (coaching designed specifically for you, your goals, your circumstances, and the time you have available -- at least that's how we work). On the other hand Training Plans are pre-built and are designed for a variety of people and are therefore not suitable if you have specific demands or specific requirements.

Cheers
Ric

djhermer

Absolutely. I started using RST in May this year, firstly on an 8 week programme (not coached) and have now been on a coaching plan since mid July.

I have similar goals to you - at least I want to do the Tour of Wessex next year, but also Paris-Roubaix and want to start racing / TTing. My position was that I ride between 7-10 hrs/week no problem, i.e. I don't lack motivation and have a very suitable commute (28 miles each way) which i can throw into my weekly training as and when. I had been on this road for a couple of years but had completely plateaud. I decided I wanted to maximise the time on the bike and have some tangible targets. I didn't have any trouble reconciling the expense - i would go and splash out on bikes, components, kit and gear without thinking about it, none of which actually improved my cycling performance. Whereas a coach gives you a tangible return...well, a good coach and a good student combined should do.

Since July my FTP has increased at each test (another due this week). My performances on the bike have improved (personal not racing, measured over the same courses over a period of time), my average power has increased on rides of 60mins - 3 hrs. My sessions are varied and are all geared towards achieving something, even if that's a recovery. Note that the signficance here is that this is without any additional mileage/riding time. It's just structured and focused. I've also lost 2.5kg, again without doing anything else.

A coach can only do so much of course. It's still mainly down to you. I would wholly recommend it if you have some definite goals.

Of course, other coaches are available, but i can only comment on Ric and his team

jibberjim

Gazmania1 wrote:

my work hours are long and all over the place so I would like a situation where I give someone my hours for the upcoming week and they just tell me what to do.

Is this the kind of thing that a coach would do or am I expecting a bit much?

Any advice would be great.

It's very much the sort of stuff a coach would do, that's an hour a week at least? Realistically more by the time you've analysed previous training results etc. So 1 hour a week at minimum wage is 27 quid a month, so if they're charging you that or less, then you have to query if you're really getting real individual attention - or why they're working for such a low wage?

Coaches can be useful, but they can also just give a generic safe plan that's more designed with not injuring you than getting the best, learning to train yourself is likely a better investment.

ric/rstsport

djhermer wrote:

Absolutely. I started using RST in May this year, firstly on an 8 week programme (not coached) and have now been on a coaching plan since mid July.

I have similar goals to you - at least I want to do the Tour of Wessex next year, but also Paris-Roubaix and want to start racing / TTing. My position was that I ride between 7-10 hrs/week no problem, i.e. I don't lack motivation and have a very suitable commute (28 miles each way) which i can throw into my weekly training as and when. I had been on this road for a couple of years but had completely plateaud. I decided I wanted to maximise the time on the bike and have some tangible targets. I didn't have any trouble reconciling the expense - i would go and splash out on bikes, components, kit and gear without thinking about it, none of which actually improved my cycling performance. Whereas a coach gives you a tangible return...well, a good coach and a good student combined should do.

Since July my FTP has increased at each test (another due this week). My performances on the bike have improved (personal not racing, measured over the same courses over a period of time), my average power has increased on rides of 60mins - 3 hrs. My sessions are varied and are all geared towards achieving something, even if that's a recovery. Note that the signficance here is that this is without any additional mileage/riding time. It's just structured and focused. I've also lost 2.5kg, again without doing anything else.

A coach can only do so much of course. It's still mainly down to you. I would wholly recommend it if you have some definite goals.

Of course, other coaches are available, but i can only comment on Ric and his team

Thanks DJ i'll pass your note to your coach. i don't think he comes on here very often!

Best wishes
Ric

BenderRodriguez

madasahattersley wrote:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Isn't the coaching support available via British Cycling free?

Absolutely not.

That surprises me. So, if you are a member of a club, and that club has a BC qualified coach, how much can you expect to have to pay them for advice? When I was a lad any such advice came free with your club membership!

wallace_and_gromit

jibberjim wrote:

So 1 hour a week at minimum wage is 27 quid a month, so if they're charging you that or less, then you have to query if you're really getting real individual attention - or why they're working for such a low wage?

I'd have thought that for most Weekend Warrior types (i.e. 30 or 40 something guys with families and jobs) a better use of £27 per month would be to hire a cleaner or someone to do the ironing to free up more weekend riding time. That said, if someone has shelled out on a coach and trains harder as a result then it's maybe not a bad investment!

For younger, hardcore racing types, then coaching would be a an excellent investment, as simply doing more won't make you much faster or help identifying specific weaknesses that can be corrected with a bespoke training plan.

djhermer

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

So 1 hour a week at minimum wage is 27 quid a month, so if they're charging you that or less, then you have to query if you're really getting real individual attention - or why they're working for such a low wage?

I'd have thought that for most Weekend Warrior types (i.e. 30 or 40 something guys with families and jobs) a better use of £27 per month would be to hire a cleaner or someone to do the ironing to free up more weekend riding time. That said, if someone has shelled out on a coach and trains harder as a result then it's maybe not a bad investment!

For younger, hardcore racing types, then coaching would be a an excellent investment, as simply doing more won't make you much faster or help identifying specific weaknesses that can be corrected with a bespoke training plan.

I'm 38. I already have cleaner, my ironing goes to a lovely lady called Denise, my wife looks after the garden and goes to work, I also work, we have a nanny to look after the kids. So I quite literally, just ride my bike. Only now i do it in a much more focused fashion, cos i asked someone who knows much more than me how best togo about it!

My point being, time to ride is not always the issue. I have the time to ride. It's how that time is used. I thought Weekend Warriors were people that joined the TA, not who rode their bikes into their 30s....

wallace_and_gromit

djhermer wrote:

I'm 38 ... So I quite literally, just ride my bike. Only now i do it in a much more focused fashion, cos i asked someone who knows much more than me how best togo about it!

You lucky barsteward! Not sure how that's relevant to my point about "most Weekend Warriors" though. You don't really count because you don't have to fight for every minute on your bike.

If time isn't an issue then coaching is a good idea. My point was that if time is an issue - which it is for Weekend Warriors - then you will get a lot of "bang for your buck" if you spend some spare cash on buying more training time and just training more.

djhermer

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

djhermer wrote:

I'm 38 ... So I quite literally, just ride my bike. Only now i do it in a much more focused fashion, cos i asked someone who knows much more than me how best togo about it!

You lucky barsteward! Not sure how that's relevant to my point about "most Weekend Warriors" though. You don't really count because you don't have to fight for every minute on your bike.

If time isn't an issue then coaching is a good idea. My point was that if time is an issue - which it is for Weekend Warriors - then you will get a lot of "bang for your buck" if you spend some spare cash on buying more training time and just training more.

I know, I sounded like i was defending my position a bit too much! Must be my age. I agree with your sentiment - hence my point about it still being very much down to the individual. No point spending money on a coach if you don't have the time or if you lack motivation. You still need both to make the investment worthwhile.

Eddy S

BenderRodriguez wrote:

That surprises me. So, if you are a member of a club, and that club has a BC qualified coach, how much can you expect to have to pay them for advice? When I was a lad any such advice came free with your club membership!

You need to understand what the different levels of BC qualification mean.

L1 and L2 BC qualified coaches are not qualified or permitted to give individual coaching under the terms of their licence.

Only BC Club Coaches (which is an old qualification that is no longer offered) and BC L3 coaches can coach individuals.

The L1 and L2 coaches are in the clubs to promote, guide and teach from a mass participation perspective and are not taught the physiological aspects in the necessary depth to work with individuals.

BenderRodriguez

Eddy S wrote:

You need to understand what the different levels of BC qualification mean... Only BC Club Coaches (which is an old qualification that is no longer offered) and BC L3 coaches can coach individuals.

And what could I expect to have to pay if my club had a member with such a qualifications, and I wanted some advice from them?

imposter2.0

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Eddy S wrote:

You need to understand what the different levels of BC qualification mean... Only BC Club Coaches (which is an old qualification that is no longer offered) and BC L3 coaches can coach individuals.

And what could I expect to have to pay if my club had a member with such a qualifications, and I wanted some advice from them?

Why not ask them? It wouldn't be as simple as quoting a number though...

mamba80

Eddy S wrote:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

That surprises me. So, if you are a member of a club, and that club has a BC qualified coach, how much can you expect to have to pay them for advice? When I was a lad any such advice came free with your club membership!

You need to understand what the different levels of BC qualification mean.

L1 and L2 BC qualified coaches are not qualified or permitted to give individual coaching under the terms of their licence.

Only BC Club Coaches (which is an old qualification that is no longer offered) and BC L3 coaches can coach individuals.

The L1 and L2 coaches are in the clubs to promote, guide and teach from a mass participation perspective and are not taught the physiological aspects in the necessary depth to work with individuals.

thats interesting, i know a local youth female rider who moved to a club miles away, in somerset, on the promise of invidual coaching... their highest qualified coach is a L2.
so much of BC rules turn out to be guide lines and vice versa

BenderRodriguez

Whatever happened to newcomers to the sport simply taking advice from seasoned riders who clearly knew what they were doing? These days, perhaps because many people come into the sport as adults rather than schoolkids, many riders seem to have an inbuilt aversion to taking advice from other riders, even if that rider is telling them how to follow a wheel properly so as to reduce the risk of them bringing down the rest of the group!

Looking around the web it also seems that there is a huge variety in the quality of the paid coaching services on offer, so some coaches almost certainly are not really worth paying for their services. It seems to me that the common view that only someone with a coaching qualification is worth listening to, and if they have a coaching qualification then they must be worth listening to, is little more than an extension of the biggest scam of our age: the cult of 'managerialism'.

Then there is the issue that to get the best out of yourself you really do need to take the time to learn what works for you, as there is no guarantee that a paid-for training programme based on generalised principles, even one that is 'tailored' will be optimum for you.

It is also worth asking yourself what you really want from a coach. For example, you might simply want someone to interpret your power meter data and plan your training, or what you might need to perform to your best is someone who first and foremost motivates you and makes you believe in yourself, perhaps in the mold of someone like the late Eddie Soens. Ultimately, who is the 'right' coach for you is a very personal thing.

Despite my reservations about the new industry of paid-for coaching services, I do think that if you find the right person and have your eyes open, the money spent on professional advice can be worth it. Even I have done this!

For what it is worth, I found this guy to be excellent and good value. He also offers a 'menu' of services, whilst some coaches seem to expect you to sign up for months on end.

http://sports-lab.co.uk/

BenderRodriguez

jibberjim wrote:

Coaches can be useful, but they can also just give a generic safe plan that's more designed with not injuring you than getting the best, learning to train yourself is likely a better investment.

I am pretty much of the same mind, but some specific services that a coach can offer, such as lactate testing, bike fitting and so on could still be very useful, especially for someone who is a newcomer.

Eddy S

BenderRodriguez wrote:

...These days, perhaps because many people come into the sport as adults rather than schoolkids, many riders seem to have an inbuilt aversion to taking advice from other riders, even if that rider is telling them how to follow a wheel properly so as to reduce the risk of them bringing down the rest of the group...

Perhaps you should go and have look at the great work and huge time commitment that goes on at the Go-Ride clubs up and down the country by teams of volunteer coaches who gain the qualifications on their time and frequently on their own dollar.

madasahattersley - I don't think that you really understand the structure and purpose of the 'BC coaching system' that you so readily criticise. It's certainly not there to give you free, invividual coaching. L3 coaches are not 2-a-penny - it takes a year and a lot of work to achieve the qualification on top of the prior time and experience gained through being a L1 or L2. And that's just for your specific discipline.

I'd love to get my L3 licence which I would have to also pay for. We do it for nothing because we want to give back to the sport. But having a family life, holding down a manic full time job, training, racing if I ever get enough training done, spending weekends taking middle son racing means there is no time. And I suspect my other L2 coaches are in the same situation.

BenderRodriguez

Eddy S wrote:

Perhaps you should go and have look at the great work and huge time commitment that goes on at the Go-Ride clubs up and down the country by teams of volunteer coaches who gain the qualifications on their time and frequently on their own dollar.

And what has that got to do with the tendency of many riders who are new to the sport to ride dangerously, especially in road races (possibly after watching the antics of people like 'Cav') and to tell others who try to point out the errors of their ways to 'fek off'?

When I was a lad if another rider, especially a more senior one, said that your riding was wanting, you felt shamed took notice! Now, at least from what I have heard, many lower category events are crash-fests due to irresponsible and inconsiderate riding and only the vets try to look after one another's safety, as they were brought up to do.

BenderRodriguez

madasahattersley wrote:

I hunted for help from British Cycling for years before giving up. I sent long email enquiries to them asking what I could do to help myself, because really I didn't have a clue. I used to just go out and pedal my bike whenever I had the chance, with no help. Essentially all I got in reply to my many attempts to get through to BC was 'Go along to a Go-Ride session.' I went along to one and I was a 16 year old in a group of 10 year olds. I got nothing out of it.

Were there no experienced riders in your club who you could turn to for advice? Most of the best advice I have ever had came from such riders, non of who had any sort of official coaching 'qualification'.

ric/rstsport

just as a point of interest, i coach one person FOC each year to try and help people out. i don't have any specific criteria on this, some years it's up and coming racers, sometimes someone doing something for charity.

top_bhoy

madasahattersley wrote:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

I hunted for help from British Cycling for years before giving up. I sent long email enquiries to them asking what I could do to help myself, because really I didn't have a clue. I used to just go out and pedal my bike whenever I had the chance, with no help. Essentially all I got in reply to my many attempts to get through to BC was 'Go along to a Go-Ride session.' I went along to one and I was a 16 year old in a group of 10 year olds. I got nothing out of it.

Were there no experienced riders in your club who you could turn to for advice? Most of the best advice I have ever had came from such riders, non of who had any sort of official coaching 'qualification'.

Thankfully there was about 3 members of my club who were exceptional in helping me out, lending me stuff and giving general advice, but any form of coaching certainly was never an option for me until I started earning money, and giving substantial amounts of it to a coach.

Sounds like there's been little change in a system that made Robert Millar move to France in the late 1970's because of a lack of support in the UK.

It's understandable that not everyone who asks for support can be catered for but since cycling receives lottery funding, there is an expectation that access should be transparent and open to all. Did you ever receive a response from BC on the programme they use to select the highest potential youths? It makes sense if they selected those who come through the youth/junior club scene by doing well in local then regional events.