light weight mtb hard tail frames

swod1

i've currently got a trek 4500 that i've had for a year and was thinking of getting another bike either a full suspension or long travel hard tail but now decided why not just change the frame ?

Looking at frames i'm not sure what would be suitable because i run some 100mm rebas on my current trek which are very nice but if i was to go for say a carbon on one 456 frame the geometry would be off some what using 100mm forks when i've seen some of you guys using 140/150 forks on the front.

I ride to work and ride xc sometimes at weekends so i dont really need to go too aggressive with the bike.

Any one know if there is a rider weight limit on the carbon 456 as this would be an ideal upgrade but not sure if it would take my weight as i'm approx 17st, i have emailed on one but no response yet.

ideas welcome of what i should do.

lawman

The 456 is indeed very light, but it's so cheap because it's a pretty basic frame. For short blasts it's a very good bike, the geometry and ride position are superb, but it is a very harsh frame and I found it massively uncomfortable over longer distances. For longer rides I wouldn't recommend it, was the main reason I sold mine. Other lightweight frames with similar geometry and travel are difficult to come buy, unless you pay mega bucks for Ti, most are steel and relatively heavy. An ideal compromise could be the Cotic Soul, will take a 140mm fork and a dropper post and it's at the lighter end of the spectrum too for steel frames.

mcnultycop

I had a Trek 4500, put Rebas on then swapped the frame out for a Scandal (check link in my sig). I'm more than happy with it. You are limited to 100mm forks on the Scandal (I've heard on-one unofficially are OK with 120mm, but not according to the website) but it is a great frame.

BigAl

How much are you looking to spend?

The Cotic Soul is indeed a lovely frame but £500 ain't exactly cheap, and you'll probably need a new headset as it has a tapered headtube

You could try a steel 456 (or indeed an On One Inbred which is cheap as chips). Neither are light though.

Depending on the model you may be able to internally adjust the Rebas to 120mm which may suit the 456 better

jairaj

If using 100mm forks and only doing XC have a look at the On One Whippet instead or as suggested the Scandal.

I think they have the same or very similar geo. The Scandal made from Alu and the Whippet made from Carbon. Both are nice light frames. If you want a bit of compliance in the frame too then have a word with OnOne and see what they would recommend.

passout

As above whippet (carbon), scandal (alu) or inbred (steel). Basically the same but different materials & weights. Designed for 100mm forks but can take up to 120mm I've heard.

I had the inbred (which is not the 456) and liked it.

Currently I'm on a Whyte 905 with 120mm forks & prefer that though. Not a fair comparison really as its much more expensive.

You could also have a look at Ragely but I think thats more for 120mm forks really.

jairaj

If the inbred is anything like the 456 it'll be super heavy. Also Ragely tend to design bikes for the more aggressive type of rider.

swod1 what is your budget? Kenisis make some nice frames that are pretty light. Also are you open to 2nd hand? How about a Boardman HT frame

benpinnick

Buy a kinesis frame.

Twelly

How tall are you? I have a couple of frames for sale - a Cube Ltd Pro which I built up as a sub12kg xc bike or I have a Merlin Malt 1 frame which also fairly light. Both XL and both cheap. PM me if you're interested

rockmonkeysc

Do your forks have an internal travel spacer? You might be able to adjust them to 120mm.
I would recommend getting a used Giant Anthem frame, they are a great ride.

passout

benpinnick wrote:

Buy a kinesis frame.

Good option. I'd stick to Kinesis alu frames rather than the Decade Versa which is steel (I have one).

lawman

It's really bad I always forget about Kinesis considering I've had one for seven years! :oops: The XC130 is a great frame, just a bit too xc for me these days, but still a very, very good bike. Really comfortable and stupidly light, mine with a 140mm fork and 1x10 was under 23lbs!

The Rookie

Does it have a to a new frame, plenty of mid range ally frames out there, not as light as carbon for sure, but almost certainly lighter than a 4500 frame, a circa 2010 rockhopper or even the older (lighter) Carrera ht frame (pre 2011).

swod1

mcnultycop wrote:

I had a Trek 4500, put Rebas on then swapped the frame out for a Scandal (check link in my sig). I'm more than happy with it. You are limited to 100mm forks on the Scandal (I've heard on-one unofficially are OK with 120mm, but not according to the website) but it is a great frame.

Did you ever weigh the frame as i would be interested in what it came out at, the frame is lightish on my 4500 2012 model but the oversized tubing makes it more heavier than it really needs to be.

lawman wrote:

The 456 is indeed very light, but it's so cheap because it's a pretty basic frame. For short blasts it's a very good bike, the geometry and ride position are superb, but it is a very harsh frame and I found it massively uncomfortable over longer distances. For longer rides I wouldn't recommend it, was the main reason I sold mine.

how long a ride did you do,i can do easily 20 mile plus on a local route through bridleways and down sections of trans pennie trail.

BigAl wrote:

How much are you looking to spend?

a couple of hundred, thats why i was looking at the carbon 456 at 300 ideally anymore and would be going into buying a 2nd bike territory.

TwellySmat wrote:

How tall are you?

i'm 5ft 10 so about a medium size frame.

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Do your forks have an internal travel spacer? You might be able to adjust them to 120mm.
I would recommend getting a used Giant Anthem frame, they are a great ride.

not sure on this as i bought them off the forum from nothern monkey, they do say 100mm on the fork leg. Are the giant anthem frames full suspension as i thought your xc bike was a full suspension ?

looking at the carbon 456, it says on planet x you can use 100mm forks and then i could later fit some 140 revelations or pikes for a bit more aggressive riding, a local park here has some good hills to go down of which my current bike isnt really suitable after nearly going over the handlebars due to my lack of skill.

i've looked at other frames like marin rocky ridge and cotic bfe but these look too heavy being made of steel.

lawman

I was riding 20-30 miles and it beat me up pretty badly after 3 or 4 hours. It was worse if I was out on the bike longer on group rides, riding it flat out for an hour or two on my own was fine.

I'd really recommend Kinesis though, I absolutely loved mine, can't bring myself to part with it. It's a shame the geometry isn't as slack as I've now become used to, other wise I'd still ride it, no question about it. For more XC type riding there's very little out there as good for the money. Either the xc3 or XC130 would make a great light weight xc bike, as I said before my Xc120 (essentially the same as the xc130) was under 23lbs even with a 140mm fork.

jairaj

I used to have a C456 too and if you want a cheap carbon frame then the Whippet is the one for you. It fits in better with the description you gave in your initial post. Or (my top option) a Kinesis frame.

I didn't find the C456 as harsh as other people are describing it as but just found the overall character was a bit bland unless you were riding it on steep and technical terrain. The slack head angle just made it feel a bit slow and cumbersome on the flats.

paulneenan76

Whatever frame you go for will be a nice step up on a 4500 frame. Personally, I never had an issue with my c456 frame in terms of "beating me up" though I did a 3 day trip to Afan recently and I did get a bit of back fatigue in the afternoon of the second day. I've just changed my set up to see if I can help reduce this - lower back was forcing me to slow up.

If you want a more XC focused ride then something like a Scandal, whippet or kinesis would be ideal. I'm sure the c456 would be fine on Rebas (look through the c456 owners thread to see if there's one) leaving scope for more travel if you fancy it.

The old adage of "best try one first" is really the best thing to do to reduce disappointment.

Paul

lawman

paulneenan76 wrote:

The old adage of "best try one first" is really the best thing to do to reduce disappointment.

Funny people always refer to that, until I bought the C456 I'd never previously ridden a bike I'd ridden before. I'd ridden a standard Mojo and a Maxlight XC pro2 but not the actual versions I ended up buying. I rode Bails87's C456 a few times before I got my own and it's the only bike I've not liked owning Imo buy practically blind and you'll be fine!

swod1

thanks everyone for the replies, they have been most helpful.

i've looked at the kinesis xc130 and like the look of this, it cant weigh 1500ish grams as it looks to be made of aluminum, its the xc3 pro thats has a carbon rear triangle.

so its a choice of kinesis xc130 or on one carbon 456, the latter i could upgrade to larger travel forks with 15mm front axle etc.

I can just see this being another bike build not just swapping bits over from my trek as i've all ready been pricing up nice upgrades like hope bb/headset and shimano xt brakes.

do new frames already have the bb and headset faced or will i need to take to lbs to have it done ?

jairaj

do new frames already have the bb and headset faced or will i need to take to lbs to have it done ?

Some do, some don't, you'll need to check before hand. My experience is they mostly need facing.

the latter i could upgrade to larger travel forks with 15mm front axle etc

Same with the XC130, as implied by the name, it can handle a 130mm fork.

mcnultycop

swod1 wrote:

mcnultycop wrote:

I had a Trek 4500, put Rebas on then swapped the frame out for a Scandal (check link in my sig). I'm more than happy with it. You are limited to 100mm forks on the Scandal (I've heard on-one unofficially are OK with 120mm, but not according to the website) but it is a great frame.

Did you ever weigh the frame as i would be interested in what it came out at, the frame is lightish on my 4500 2012 model but the oversized tubing makes it more heavier than it really needs to be.

I didn't weigh it I'm afraid, but it was miles heavier than the Scandal just by feel.

njee20

the frame is lightish on my 4500 2012 model but the oversized tubing makes it more heavier than it really needs to be

Tube diameter does not directly correlate to weight - you can make walls thinner on a bigger tube. They're not light frames though.

swod1

mcnultycop wrote:

I didn't weigh it I'm afraid, but it was miles heavier than the Scandal just by feel.

I hope it is and i hope i dont crack the new frame because i'm not a skinny lad either which is why i ended up with the 4500 in the first place due to the chunky size frame.

on the subject of the on one scandal it seems they are out of stock in 26er.

i've not checked if the kinesis frame is 26er which would rule out swapping frames and bits over.

the 456 titanium frame looks very nice but is it worth 800 just for the frame ?

njee20 wrote:

Tube diameter does not directly correlate to weight - you can make walls thinner on a bigger tube. They're not light frames though.

yeah and a bigger size than other frames, the seat clamp is bigger than 34.9 and i can't seem to find one to fit.

swod1

I'm still looking into mtb frames and have seen a few used boardman pro frames on offer for a good price.

Are these worth a look ?

lawman

The kinesis XC3 and XC130 frames are 26", either would be my choice, the Boardman's have a tendency to crack and I'd avoid them if you're a heavy guy.

swod1

lawman wrote:

The kinesis XC3 and XC130 frames are 26", either would be my choice, the Boardman's have a tendency to crack and I'd avoid them if you're a heavy guy.

Yeah i was thinking that, not having much look on getting hold of a kinesis frame seems no places around leeds to have a look at one.

I would be keeping the trek frame anyway to use as a ride about town bike etc with spare bits i have.

passout

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... Frame_2011

Might interest then - not sure of the sizing though...

swod1

Resurrecting the thread as having a recent browse on eBay over the weekend and I've won a boardman pro frame for 72 pound, was a cheeky bid, I thought I'd get outbid that's if the seller lets it go for that price.

Just wondering if this will be a worth while change/upgrade as thinking to strip my trek and fit the parts over to the boardman frame as my trek has xt gears, xt brakes and reba forks.

Ideas welcome on what to do with it or I'll just sell it on?

The Rookie

Weigh it, if its competitive on weight (sub 1.85Kg for an alloy frame as starting point) then as most stuff will swap directly, I'd do the reframe, worse case you'll need (as far as I can see) is a seatpost clamp, shim and a new front mech.

swod1

The Rookie wrote:

Weigh it, if its competitive on weight (sub 1.85Kg for an alloy frame as starting point) then as most stuff will swap directly, I'd do the reframe, worse case you'll need (as far as I can see) is a seatpost clamp, shim and a new front mech.

Cheers for reply.

The built up boardman frame is lighter as a lad I know has one and just lifting the bike up with your hand you can definitely tell the difference between his and my bike which is much heavier

I hope its a straight forward swap over of parts but forward thinking some complications with parts though, the seller has let me know the frame is a press fit bb and the frame uses a tapered headset lower cup looks 1.5inch.

Doing some research on crc it looks like I will need a shim to go on my straight 1.1/8 fork to make it 1.5inch, Hope do the bits but its pricey though.

Press fit bb never used one my trek has a threaded hollowtech 2 bb so I will need an adapter to use my deore chainset as I believe shimano are 24mm axle and the bb could be press fit 30mm cant tell until I get the frame and measure.

Could also be clearance issues with the triple chainset as boardman only spec for 2x up front don't they?

Antm81

Presuming the BB is still in I'd knock it out and fit a shimano one, its highly likely the have one for that standard and unlikely to cost much more yet will be a much better fit for the cranks.