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Accident

DavidjohnbDavidjohnb Posts: 14
edited November 2013 in Road general
Just about to pass a car when the driver opened his door right in front of me, hit and flew off my bike, I'm shocked and very sore and painful all down my right side, left hand swollen. Bikes left hand shifter totally smashed, front wheel badly buckled, handlebars bent and possibly the front carbon fibre forks are damaged. The driver was very apologetic and said he didn't see me. Have got all his insurance details etc, not feeling good, could have been worse. Not contacted the police and hope I start to feel better letter.
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Posts

  • You need to report to the police, for the record.
    All the gear, but no idea...
  • I think there are more urgent things to do that write a report on a forum

    1) Get yourself checked in hospital
    2) Report the accident to the police
    3) speak to the insurance

    In this order
  • There is no requirement to report it to the Police.

    The driver has complied with Sec170 Road Traffic Act 1988 so does not need to report it.

    No.5 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170
  • I was always under the impression that incidents involving injury needed to be reported to the police, regardless of exchanging details. While that link seems to counter that I would still be tempted to report the incident to the police to avoid any repercussions should it turn awkward later.

    Get checked out, inform the police.

    Paul.
    Giant Defy 2
    Large bloke getting smaller :-)
  • cattytown wrote:
    I was always under the impression that incidents involving injury needed to be reported to the police, regardless of exchanging details. While that link seems to counter that I would still be tempted to report the incident to the police to avoid any repercussions should it turn awkward later.

    If you cut your finger, do you put a plaster on it then call for an ambulance, just incase...?

    If you drop a candle, but quickly pick it up, do you call the fire brigade, just incase....?

    Just curious if you waste the time of other emergency services...? :roll:
  • Ah! Reductio Ad Absurdum.

    Must try harder.
    Giant Defy 2
    Large bloke getting smaller :-)
  • sungodsungod Posts: 14,355
    well, if we're going to play internet lawyers...
    If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of [F4a motor vehicle] does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—

    (a)to a constable, or

    (b)to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,

    the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.

    ..so unless the driver produced "a certificate of insurance or [etc.]", he hasn't complied with the law and is required to report the accident

    the op, after getting checked over at a&e, may wish to report it to the police in the event that no such evidence was presented
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    Read this thread:

    viewtopic.php?f=40052&t=12722930

    it sets out what you need to do when an accident occurs.
  • rphertsrpherts Posts: 207
    Davidjohnb wrote:
    Just about to pass a car when the driver opened his door right in front of me, hit and flew off my bike, I'm shocked and very sore and painful all down my right side, left hand swollen. Bikes left hand shifter totally smashed, front wheel badly buckled, handlebars bent and possibly the front carbon fibre forks are damaged. The driver was very apologetic and said he didn't see me. Have got all his insurance details etc, not feeling good, could have been worse. Not contacted the police and hope I start to feel better letter.

    "Didn't see you" = didn't look
  • DiscoBoyDiscoBoy Posts: 905
    Whilst I don't want to sound harsh, because this wasn't your fault and you're injured, but this can be avoided in the future by not riding in the "door zone".
    Red bikes are the fastest.
  • If you cut your finger, do you put a plaster on it then call for an ambulance, just incase...?

    If you drop a candle, but quickly pick it up, do you call the fire brigade, just incase....?

    Just curious if you waste the time of other emergency services...? :roll:

    BS

    In this case the OP has suffered substantial injuries, none of which were his fault (if you ignore the aspect of riding in the door zone).

    The initial steps are important in having a legal record of events, he needs to get checked over by a doctor so there is an official record of his injuries. He needs to contact the police so he has an official record of events.

    It's very often the case that a driver will be apologetic and admit fault at the scene, but then later realise what financially this is going to cost them, so change their story, say it was the cyclists fault, they weren't even there etc etc.

    You also need to go to your LBS and get a quote on how much it will be to fix your bike. You'll need this for the insurance company - Your word on how much it would be for you to fix it won't wash.
  • unixnerdunixnerd Posts: 2,864
    Keep a record of ALL expenditure related to the accident, even taxis to hospital and things like time off work. Photograph any bruising and damage to bike or clothing.
    http://www.strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible Price.
    Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert 2012, Cannondale CAAD5,
    Marin Mount Vision (1997), Edinburgh Country tourer, 3 cats!
  • I do ride beyond the door zone and am fully aware but on this occasion there was a car passing me, the left side of my bike took the hit which was enough to send me flying. With regards to the claim, the insurance company have informed me he has accepted liability. With regards to my injuries, I've been lucky, bruising and grazed. I understand with regard if there are any later disagreements but I also had a witness who saw it all from approx 5 mt away.
    Thanks for all your advice and comments, much appreciated.
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,600
    cattytown wrote:
    I was always under the impression that incidents involving injury needed to be reported to the police, regardless of exchanging details. While that link seems to counter that I would still be tempted to report the incident to the police to avoid any repercussions should it turn awkward later.

    If you cut your finger, do you put a plaster on it then call for an ambulance, just incase...?

    If you drop a candle, but quickly pick it up, do you call the fire brigade, just incase....?

    Just curious if you waste the time of other emergency services...? :roll:

    So reporting a road traffic accident is wasting police time? Judging by your username I assume this equates to 'wasting my time'? I wonder if your employers would take a similar view? What other issues do you consider a waste of time then? Maybe some minor criminal damage?

    As it stands all the OP has is someone's name and contact details which may or may not be genuine.
  • BozmanBozman Posts: 2,518
    Regarding informing the police, my insurance/solicitor asked for an incident number on one occasion when I got knocked off.
    I know squat about law but I was always told that you have to inform the police if you're injured in an RTA(is a bike officially classed as RT?), sounds like it was just another piece of censored that I've picked up in the last 45 years.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    You need to report to the police, for the record.

    They don't need to report it to the police. A reportable accident definition is "owing to the presence of a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road, an accident occurs whereby....." A cycle isn't a motor vehicle. The driver would have to report the accident to the police except that in this incident, they have complied with the second part of a reportable RTC in that they have provided the necessary details to a person having requested them.

    170: Duties in case of accident
    Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents.

    (1) This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a Mechanically Propelled Vehicle on a road or other public place, an accident occurs by which -
    (a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that vehicle, or
    (b) damage is caused -

    (i) to a vehicle other than that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
    (ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
    (iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
    (2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.
    (3) If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.

    (4) A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.
    (5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act -

    (a) to a constable, or
    (b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,
    the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.


    This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.

    (6) To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act, the driver -

    (a) must do so at a police station or to a constable, and
    (b) must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within twenty-four hours of the occurrence of the accident.

    (7) A person who fails to comply with a duty under subsection (5) above is guilty of an offence, but he shall not be convicted by reason only of a failure to produce a certificate or other evidence if, within seven days after the occurrence of the accident, the certificate or other evidence is produced at a police station that was specified by him at the time when the accident was reported.

    By producing insurance details to the OP, they have complied with the legislation and do not have to report the collision to the police.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    Pross wrote:
    cattytown wrote:
    I was always under the impression that incidents involving injury needed to be reported to the police, regardless of exchanging details. While that link seems to counter that I would still be tempted to report the incident to the police to avoid any repercussions should it turn awkward later.

    If you cut your finger, do you put a plaster on it then call for an ambulance, just incase...?

    If you drop a candle, but quickly pick it up, do you call the fire brigade, just incase....?

    Just curious if you waste the time of other emergency services...? :roll:

    So reporting a road traffic accident is wasting police time? Judging by your username I assume this equates to 'wasting my time'? I wonder if your employers would take a similar view? What other issues do you consider a waste of time then? Maybe some minor criminal damage?

    As it stands all the OP has is someone's name and contact details which may or may not be genuine.

    That's a bit harsh isn't it? All he's done is point out that there is no requirement in these circumstances to report the RTC to the police and by doing so, you would be diverting them away from something that does require their attention and action. He hasn't mentioned anything about it wasting time reporting incidents that do require police action and as a now thankfully retired supervisor, I'd concur fully with his thought process. So you want an incident number; for what exactly? You know an RTC has occurred as you have the bruises to show it. The driver has complied with you so all you need to do is contact his insurers either directly or through a solicitor/your insurers. An incident number does nothing to confirm or speed up that process.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    There is no requirement to report it to the Police.

    The driver has complied with Sec170 Road Traffic Act 1988 so does not need to report it.

    No.5 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170


    I think you may have mis interpreted this legislation.

    My understanding is that where the driver does not PRODUCE his insurance certificate at the scene he/she must report the accident to the police ASAP and in any event within 24 hours.

    Exchanging details at the scene is not sufficient to comply with the legislation
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,600
    philthy3 wrote:
    That's a bit harsh isn't it? All he's done is point out that there is no requirement in these circumstances to report the RTC to the police and by doing so, you would be diverting them away from something that does require their attention and action. He hasn't mentioned anything about it wasting time reporting incidents that do require police action and as a now thankfully retired supervisor, I'd concur fully with his thought process. So you want an incident number; for what exactly? You know an RTC has occurred as you have the bruises to show it. The driver has complied with you so all you need to do is contact his insurers either directly or through a solicitor/your insurers. An incident number does nothing to confirm or speed up that process.

    He has said 'would you waste the time of other emergency services'. As others have pointed out, he appears to have justified this by misinterpretting the law i.e. no requirement to report if documents and produced at the scene - from my reading of the original post this was not done. I've been involved in an RTA whilst driving in the past and the other driver gave his details. I asked if he wanted the police to attend (I went into the back of him when he pulled into my braking space as I check my shoulder to change lanes) and he said no. Fortunately, I reported it straight away as he subsequently informed the police a couple of days later claiming there had been injuries. I also had a witness that confirmed he had agreed not to bother the police - I reckon he'd had a few drinks or was deliberately trying to get me in trouble. I could have ended up in trouble if I hadn't reported it so I'm glad I did and would do the same again. If it causes a police officer a bit of paperwork that's just bad luck, it's part of their job and a legal requirement on my part.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    Davidjohnb wrote:
    Have got all his insurance details etc, not feeling good, could have been worse. Not contacted the police and hope I start to feel better letter.

    The OP says in his original post that he has the insurance details etc.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    spen666 wrote:
    There is no requirement to report it to the Police.

    The driver has complied with Sec170 Road Traffic Act 1988 so does not need to report it.

    No.5 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170


    I think you may have mis interpreted this legislation.

    My understanding is that where the driver does not PRODUCE his insurance certificate at the scene he/she must report the accident to the police ASAP and in any event within 24 hours.

    Exchanging details at the scene is not sufficient to comply with the legislation

    It doesn't say he merely exchanged details either though does it.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • BS

    In this case the OP has suffered substantial injuries, none of which were his fault (if you ignore the aspect of riding in the door zone).

    The initial steps are important in having a legal record of events, he needs to get checked over by a doctor so there is an official record of his injuries.

    I'm gonna Top Trump you and call Double BullShit.

    Substantial Injuries....?

    Oh do get a life, the OP has said he is 'Sore', if you think that is a substantial injury you want to start hanging around A&E's or accident blackspots to lend a hand with missing limbs or even a motorcyclist decapitation after hitting those central reservation wire things. It's not nice, trust me with that as you complain from your armchair.

    And why will a 'legal record of events' help him...? Do tell. Will the fact a solicitor writes it down rather than the OP writes it down make it any more believable or honest than if the OP writes it down himself...?

    And as for notifying the Police, please read my post again then click the link to the appropriate legislation. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
    Pross wrote:
    So reporting a road traffic accident is wasting police time? Judging by your username I assume this equates to 'wasting my time'?

    Yes.... I'm sensing you're a smart cookie.
    I wonder if your employers would take a similar view?

    If they understand the legislation and have a sound operational background then i'd hope so.
    What other issues do you consider a waste of time then?

    Calls about Facebook mainly. :roll:
    As it stands all the OP has is someone's name and contact details which may or may not be genuine.

    Yes they might be false, but the driver was then exceptionally stupid as he gave the correct insurance details as according to the post before yours, the insurance company have accepted liability. I take it back about calling you a 'smart cookie', sorry about that. :wink:
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,726
    I will never understand with bike accidents where the driver is at fault why someone would trust to luck that the insurance details are correct. Calls need to be made. If at the time you can make the calls, do it, but if you're in shock, which you could well be, first note the number plate in case the person drives off, then ask for witnesses details and ask if they might hang around, then call the police.

    If you do all that, you should be alright. I wouldn't be doing it if you're not really hurt and there's no damage to the bike though. In my experience the police are quite happy to attend the scene of an accident, plus, they have to. Police may be short on resources but there's plenty of people calling them out for far far less than road accidents where someone is hurt and there is fault.
  • mfin wrote:
    I will never understand with bike accidents where the driver is at fault why someone would trust to luck that the insurance details are correct. Calls need to be made. If at the time you can make the calls, do it, but if you're in shock, which you could well be, first note the number plate in case the person drives off, then ask for witnesses details and ask if they might hang around, then call the police.

    If you do all that, you should be alright. I wouldn't be doing it if you're not really hurt and there's no damage to the bike though. In my experience the police are quite happy to attend the scene of an accident, plus, they have to. Police may be short on resources but there's plenty of people calling them out for far far less than road accidents where someone is hurt and there is fault.

    It would be hilarious if the feds turned up and actually started whining about being there "oh bloody hell mate.....got better things to do you know, can't you just ride clear of the doors??"
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,726
    It would be hilarious if the feds turned up and actually started whining about being there "oh bloody hell mate.....got better things to do you know, can't you just ride clear of the doors??"

    Or got on the radio saying, "yes I've arrived at the scene and can confirm there is an apparently very upset fully grown man dressed up in spandex here"
  • cmhill79cmhill79 Posts: 135
    I think there are more urgent things to do that write a report on a forum

    1) Get yourself checked in hospital
    2) Report the accident to the police
    3) speak to the insurance

    In this order

    I think if you're ready to post in a forum you're ready to do what was sensibly suggested above...
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    mfin wrote:
    I will never understand with bike accidents where the driver is at fault why someone would trust to luck that the insurance details are correct. Calls need to be made. If at the time you can make the calls, do it, but if you're in shock, which you could well be, first note the number plate in case the person drives off, then ask for witnesses details and ask if they might hang around, then call the police.

    If you do all that, you should be alright. I wouldn't be doing it if you're not really hurt and there's no damage to the bike though. In my experience the police are quite happy to attend the scene of an accident, plus, they have to. Police may be short on resources but there's plenty of people calling them out for far far less than road accidents where someone is hurt and there is fault.

    There's several points in that post that are incorrect. The police do not have to attend all RTCs. If the relevant documents have been produced (see sec 170 of the RTA) there is no need to call the police or for it to be reported to them by the driver as the legislation has been complied with. If an allegation is being made or it is a serious injury, then yes call them. Just because some other numpty wastes the police time doesn't mean you have the right to just because you judge your waste of time less incumbent than anyone else's. When you read through the posts on here about actual reported RTCs, thefts etc and the injured party moaning because the OIC hasn't got back to them, maybe it's because someone has called them to an RTC unnecessarily diverting them from the investigation yet again and delaying due process for the victim.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • I know drivers should check their mirrors when opening doors, but is there a good reason that the OP wasn't riding further away from the car than the width of the door?
    To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.
  • Mikey23Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    I think the Op has sorted it. It astonishes me how whenever anyone does an 'I've been involved in an accident' post, everyone becomes a barrack room lawyer and we end up with another pool of collective ignorance...
  • Everyone.....?
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