Undetectable strava doping

jigglepan
jigglepan Posts: 3
edited November 2013 in Road general
It's happened...

http://ridejuicer.com

"Just ride faster"
«1

Comments

  • BillyMansell
    BillyMansell Posts: 817
    This was raised a couple weeks ago when someone destroyed the times for Box Hill and other climbs, but then it's always been easy to edit gps data to improve your speed by simply reducing ride time.
  • motd2k
    motd2k Posts: 71
    I don't think it's as easy as people believe - it's not just a matter of changing some timestamps... the lat/lon would have to be extrapolated for each datapoint too...

    http://www.scarletfire.co.uk/2013/06/ho ... on-strava/ explains how to detect the old digitalepo website, not sure if it works with this new one... but you'd have to presume not given they claim it to be undetectable.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    I don't really use Strava these days, but I still have an account. I entered the ride ID of a ride I did in the alps in July. I'ts doubled the amount of climbing for a start, so that's detectable, if you compare my original ride with the 'juiced' ride, the route is the same but the juiced ride has double the climbing.

    Also, the overall average speed was actually lower on the juiced ride and the actual summit heights for some reason are lower.

    It's a bit of a mess, which some might see as a good thing.
  • motd2k
    motd2k Posts: 71
    Doubt that'll help too much as a fingerprint - you can override elevation data from dodgy GPSes by clicking the 'Elevation (?)' button in Strava. Average speed being lower does sound odd though, I might feed it one of my rides and see how it does with that...
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    I just use Strava to track improvements against myself on certain climbs.
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Hopefully, if the Strava scores are no longer credible, it will stop all the lunatics who ride with complete disregard for their or anyone else's safety just to get a KOM. I will still use it to see how much I improve my times and fitness. not interested in leader boards.
  • Jon_1976
    Jon_1976 Posts: 690
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Hopefully, if the Strava scores are no longer credible, it will stop all the lunatics who ride with complete disregard for their or anyone else's safety just to get a KOM. I will still use it to see how much I improve my times and fitness. not interested in leader boards.

    Same here, its a good tool for maintaining/improving fitness. I did fall prey to kom mania on one occassion, felt a right prat after and havent bothered since.
  • Cygnus
    Cygnus Posts: 1,879
    motd2k wrote:
    I don't think it's as easy as people believe - it's not just a matter of changing some timestamps... the lat/lon would have to be extrapolated for each datapoint too...

    http://www.scarletfire.co.uk/2013/06/ho ... on-strava/ explains how to detect the old digitalepo website, not sure if it works with this new one... but you'd have to presume not given they claim it to be undetectable.
    But that won't work if someone has spent lots of time manually editing the gpx file.
  • littledove44
    littledove44 Posts: 871
    A friend of mine waited for the hurricane last week and then blasted downwind to get a KOM. If it makes him happy then who am I to complain? Many of our local sector KOM's are set by guys who help each other with drafting etc.

    Personally, I avoid drafting, big winds and any other factor that might convince me I am getting fitter than I really am. I love Strava. Keeps me motivated to push just that little bit harder every time I climb the hill back up to my house.

    I suspect I am like many others though, I ride to impress myself, not to compete. KOM's only last until someone who can really ride turns up and thrashes the time.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    littledove44 wrote:
    I love Strava. Keeps me motivated to push just that little bit harder every time I climb the hill back up to my house.
    I haven't used Strava but ridewithgps has the whole segments malarkey going on though so I have used it to train.

    Last summer I had a bit of epiphany whilst actually setting a pb on a climb. Whilst totally maxed out it struck me that my riding had been taken over by damned segments. Whilst having a measure of a planned hard effort is good for training purposes, being a slave to segments took some pleasure away from the riding for me so I stopped.
    Nowadays I'll only upload a ride if I was specifically working on a certain aspect and have a segment set up for that purpose. Keep it as a useful tool but don't be a slave to it.
    One local on ridewithgps has clearly improved massively as a climber. But he just appears on certain climbs day after day after day gradually creeping up the leader board and then deleting all the slow rides he started out with.
    I'm 50:50 on whether this represents good training or being a slave to segments.
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    I don't really bother with the KOM stuff but I do get some comfort by looking at the age related board. I think I'm top of all the local segs.
  • gubber12345
    gubber12345 Posts: 493
    littledove44 wrote:
    A friend of mine waited for the hurricane last week and then blasted downwind to get a KOM. If it makes him happy then who am I to complain? Many of our local sector KOM's are set by guys who help each other with drafting etc.

    Personally, I avoid drafting, big winds and any other factor that might convince me I am getting fitter than I really am. I love Strava. Keeps me motivated to push just that little bit harder every time I climb the hill back up to my house.

    I suspect I am like many others though, I ride to impress myself, not to compete. KOM's only last until someone who can really ride turns up and thrashes the time.
    snap....know a guy who did the same only with a 10 mile tt segment.stuck it on facebook to let everyone see it and brag a bit.....doesn't really count in my eyes if u have a 20 mph tailwind
    Lapierre Aircode 300
    Merida
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    Mikey23 wrote:
    I don't really bother with the KOM stuff but I do get some comfort by looking at the age related board. I think I'm top of all the local segs.

    Thats nothing, I'm top of the weight related boreds.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    Just get a motor bike ride it carefully and you will have all the KOM's you want.

    I just use Strava to gauge my fitness and also to work out how to ride some segments better. I have one KOM but that is more luck than anything else. Best just to see what is possible and race yourself.
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    @ss... Yay, weight related and old gits rock!
  • matt-h
    matt-h Posts: 847
    NapoleonD wrote:
    I just use Strava to track improvements against myself on certain climbs.

    Exactly that

    Matt
    Scott Foil Di2 viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13020685&p=19496365#p19496365
    Genesis Volare 853 viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13020702&p=19589281#p19589281
  • backo
    backo Posts: 167
    the only segments on strava should be climbs hence KOM.
  • meursault
    meursault Posts: 1,433
    Mikey23 wrote:
    I don't really bother with the KOM stuff but I do get some comfort by looking at the age related board. I think I'm top of all the local segs.

    This, plus using it to track own progress.
    Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.

    Voltaire
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    Hardly in the spirit of Strava this thread, 'Get Out There And Show Them Who's Boss'
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • tootsie323
    tootsie323 Posts: 199
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    Mikey23 wrote:
    I don't really bother with the KOM stuff but I do get some comfort by looking at the age related board. I think I'm top of all the local segs.
    Thats nothing, I'm top of the weight related boreds.
    I'm probably just top of the weights...
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    I wince every time I see 'KOM', what happened to the 'the'? And PR instead of PB?

    Pfft.
  • motd2k
    motd2k Posts: 71
    Interesting that you don't appear to even have to ride the route at all in order to pimp the times with ridejuicer - I seem to be able to use other people's activity IDs just fine.
  • dwanes
    dwanes Posts: 954
    I choose a route, and if there happens to be any segments that I know about I will go for them. It can good for building up fitness If you target them sensibly.

    As for KOM, it is inevitable that most KOM will be wind assisted, intentional or not.
    Around where I live you need to be a very good, fit rider to be able to get near most KOM wind assisted or not, so there is no shame in taking advantage of a bit of wind.

    Plus you can easily get to know (with a bit of investigating) who the good riders are in the leaderboard and those who are playing at it.
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    I wouldn't choose a route based on segments, but when I download a ride and find that I'm fairly close to a Kom I'll push myself a little bit more when I'm on that route next time. I've managed to dislodge a couple of pros that way and get the Kom, a sad moment of glory for a bald middle aged bloke that pushed himself a little bit harder for two and a half mile.
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    true KOM shouldnt be wind assisted as they should only be a minimum cat 4 climb. whats the point of going for straight speed KOMs ? those are the easiest to get a good time from drafting. bit harder to climb a steeop hill without it just being you vs the incline. sure, hanging onto someines rear wheel is motivation but is not really assisting.
  • izza
    izza Posts: 1,561
    Bozman wrote:
    I wouldn't choose a route based on segments, but when I download a ride and find that I'm fairly close to a Kom I'll push myself a little bit more when I'm on that route next time. I've managed to dislodge a couple of pros that way and get the Kom, a sad moment of glory for a bald middle aged bloke that pushed himself a little bit harder for two and a half mile.


    Are you getting the Cliiiimb app from this Friday? - Looks fun with real time updates of where you are relative to others throughout the KOM segment.
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    izza wrote:
    Bozman wrote:
    I wouldn't choose a route based on segments, but when I download a ride and find that I'm fairly close to a Kom I'll push myself a little bit more when I'm on that route next time. I've managed to dislodge a couple of pros that way and get the Kom, a sad moment of glory for a bald middle aged bloke that pushed himself a little bit harder for two and a half mile.


    Are you getting the Cliiiimb app from this Friday? - Looks fun with real time updates of where you are relative to others throughout the KOM segment.

    I doubt I'll use that, I don't run Strava on a ride I just download my Garmin on to the site for a comparison with mates, I say that but certain segments can take hold.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 42,453
    I'm not sure how Digital EPO can be detected, as far as can tell it just ups the speed by reducing the time between each recorded point by the percentage requested so there are no glaring high speed segments, just a smooth increase over the whole ride. In a couple of years a Strava 'KOM' will have as much credibility as a Tour yellow jersey from the 90s and 00s and Strava will gradually die out.
  • bernithebiker
    bernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    true KOM shouldnt be wind assisted as they should only be a minimum cat 4 climb. whats the point of going for straight speed KOMs ? those are the easiest to get a good time from drafting. bit harder to climb a steeop hill without it just being you vs the incline. sure, hanging onto someines rear wheel is motivation but is not really assisting.

    The wind helps on any sort of segment, even the climbs. I can definitely get better times on Cat 4 type climbs with a good tailwind.

    I would say the wind is a factor in just about every KOM out there. Noone targets KOM's into a headwind, (unless they're pretty damn good!)
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 42,453
    What are these tailwinds of which you all speak? I tend to get headwinds, cross headwinds and (if I'm really lucky) a cross wind but these mythical tailwinds I hear people whisper about in dark corners don't exist in reality do they?

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