Europcar / Veilleux

iainf72
iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited October 2013 in Pro race
Interesting post from Mr Pryde

http://www.biscuittinmedia.com/david-ve ... r-or-bust/
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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Comments

  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    ^and there you have your old skool way of doing things

    Thats how Bernaudeau trained when he was a pro*, why should it be any different now

    etc etc

    Throw a stone and you'll hit plenty of other PT teams going about things the same old way


    *passing over his famous quote of dope controls in cycling being a breach of the freedom of work, obvs
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Ha thats a good one. At the end of the day though their job is to keep the sponsors happy and they dont have a problem doing that. Voeckler alone knows how to get more exposure than entire teams.

    Dont forget that they are Prof no Prt. Without looking a the quality of wins, they are 12th in the rankings and have more wins than Garmin, Radioshack, Astana and Lampre to name a few. Astana`s win tally is woeful given the amount of money they bring to the table. Note also that OPQS have more wins than any team and they are not SRM and `new school` donkeys like some teams. Point wise they are top of the PROFs but bottom of all the PRTs.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    Met Cousin and Gene in the Pyrenees couple of weeks before the Tour. They also just seemed to be riding aimlessly. Admittedly the fact that the Solour was shut didn't help their plans to 'get to the next valley'.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    that comment is your best work yet Frenchie
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    frenchfighter wrote:
    they are 12th in the rankings and have more wins than Garmin, Radioshack, Astana
    Probably not the best choice of teams seeing as between them they won two Grand Tours and three Monuments. (Lampre are crap though - I'll give you that)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Following on from Rich's post, if in any doubt that all wins are not created equal, pls see Belkin's 9 stage wins plus GC at Tour of Hainan. Only WT team there.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    For those who have trouble reading this is the visually impaired version of my post.
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Without looking a the quality of wins, they are 12th in the rankings and have more wins than Garmin, Radioshack, Astana and Lampre to name a few.Astana`s win tally is woeful given the amount of money they bring to the table. Note also that OPQS have more wins than any team and they are not SRM and `new school` donkeys like some teams. Point wise they are top of the PROFs but bottom of all the PRTs.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    rather than the f kin about on mountains like a group of 3rd cats I would have been more inclined to consider http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/538824/europcar-faces-questions-over-pierre-rolland-s-cortisol-levels.html for V's distance


    funny how these have managed without 'not really knowing what they are doing' - don't you think they were just trying to tell that complete stranger to stop butting in and peggin their ride :lol:
    Yukiya ArashiroJPN
    Natnael BerhaneERI
    Giovanni BernaudeauFRA
    Franck BouyerFRA
    Anthony CharteauFRA
    Sébastien ChavanelFRA
    Bryan CoquardFRA
    Jérôme CousinFRA
    Damien GaudinFRA
    Cyril GautierFRA
    Yohann GèneFRA
    Tony HurelFRA
    Vincent JérômeFRA
    Christophe KernFRA
    Morgan LamoissonFRA
    Davide MalacarneITA
    Bryan NaulleauFRA
    Alexandre PichotFRA
    Perrig QuémeneurFRA
    Kévin RezaFRA
    Pierre RollandFRA
    Björn ThurauGER
    Angelo TulikFRA
    Sébastien TurgotFRA
    David VeilleuxCAN
    Thomas VoecklerFRA
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    funny how these have managed without 'not really knowing what they are doing' - don't you think they were just trying to tell that complete stranger to stop butting in and peggin their ride :lol:
    It wasn't a complete stranger - it was a 'Girona-based pro' - quite likely Dan Martin as he's just been at the Braveheart dinner with all the journos.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Half a dozen of their wins down to a trackie turned neo pro.

    The wooden boards: light on panache, heavy on winners. :)
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    RichN95 wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    funny how these have managed without 'not really knowing what they are doing' - don't you think they were just trying to tell that complete stranger to stop butting in and peggin their ride :lol:
    It wasn't a complete stranger - it was a 'Girona-based pro' - quite likely Dan Martin as he's just been at the Braveheart dinner with all the journos.

    Cristian Meier Green Edge is a Girona based pro - as are many others not at WT (or pro conti) level - it is all hearsay

    Voekler was pissing on Girona based pros at Lombardy
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:

    Cristian Meier Green Edge is a Girona based pro - as are many others not at WT (or pro conti) level - it is all hearsay

    Voekler was pissing on Girona based pros at Lombardy

    1. Joaquim Rodriguez
    ..
    4. Dan Martin
    ..
    ..
    34. Thomas Voeckler

    Right.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    I doubt it was Dan Martin - he wouldnt look down on someone for not using an SRM given that he himself rides on feel. For more info see the Pure Climbers thread.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I doubt it was Dan Martin - he wouldnt look down on someone for not using an SRM given that he himself rides on feel. For more info see the Pure Climbers thread.


    This whole climbing on feel thing is nonsense. He uses a SRM meter (garmin) and the data will be sent to his team and coaches, who in turn will feed back. Everyone climbs on feel and SRM at a pretty similar rate, do you really think when Froome went on Ax3 he was purely on his watt's no he would have been 'feeling' good and would have known how much he could push etc.

    Sky have stated the riders must send them power files regularly as it allows the coaches to monitor the riders training etc.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    From 2009. Been a few years so maybe he is different but I doubt it.
    Someone who I am very excited about is Dan Martin. I read an interview with him recently and will summarise as it is very interesting.

    - Didn't fit into Britain's numbers approach so left for France, targetting races with big mountains.
    - Winner Route de Sud 2008 and 2nd Tour of Catalonia.
    - In the latter, he pushed Valverde so hard uphill that Valaverde told him afterwards that he had never seen a young pro with such attacking spirit.
    - His core is very static yet he doesn't do or believe in core-training.
    - "When I climb it is all on feel"
    - As an amateur, his DS said cycling was a matter of managing pain. Martin believes in this and that you can go deeper than you think. He can hold his 20min pace for 40mins just by doing so.
    - "I never go on power or heart rate".
    Contador is the Greatest
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    frenchfighter wrote:
    From 2009. Been a few years so maybe he is different but I doubt it.
    He may not race according to his monitor, but you can bet he uses it for training. His DS is as big a numbers guy as anyone at Sky.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    I'm not saying he doesn't have a feel for climbing, but I can guarantee that at somepoint at training camps he sits down with a coach, or when training at home receives a call or email,to discuss numbers. I mean how does he know he can do his 20 minute time for 40 minutes?
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Sorry to rain on someone's parade but Kenny Pryde's mystery rider source is indeed Dan Martin, with whom not only did Mr P spend the weekend getting hammered, but whose esteemed father Neil Martin was Mr P's riding companion on the Girona roads last week
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    From 2009. Been a few years so maybe he is different but I doubt it.
    He may not race according to his monitor, but you can bet he uses it for training. His DS is as big a numbers guy as anyone at Sky.

    Yep, he does not race by one he races on feel.

    From what he was saying it looks to me that he is more implying that they have a lack of structure rather than anything else. Which is a fair point.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    edited October 2013
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    From 2009. Been a few years so maybe he is different but I doubt it.
    He may not race according to his monitor, but you can bet he uses it for training. His DS is as big a numbers guy as anyone at Sky.


    The Garmin guys use:
    https://shop.srm.de/store_usa/product_i ... 714c17c4ba

    as per Dan Martin's bike spec
    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... -r5-37790/


    Anyone who tries to argue that Garmin and its riders arent into data....

    ...is being foolish
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Having an srm on your bike does not mean you race by numbers. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Dan Martin: - "When I climb it is all on feel". "I never go on power or heart rate".

    BTU2a9FIIAArRGq.jpg:large
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    I thought in some other thread we had established that Froome's HUD gets the NSA feed of his rival's SRMs?
    And in a racing scenario, anybody who races by numbers over feel is going to regularly blow if they go beyond capabilities on that day. Surely they all ride as hard as they can, or as hard as they need to, whatever is on the meter?
    I love TV as much as the French guy, but suggesting his riding has is a triumph of panache over power ignores the power of TV coverage.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • jimmythecuckoo
    jimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,718
    To be fair, when I got to the top of Els Angels I hadn't a clue where I was going...

    says more about my legs though.
    http://fendrieneu.home.blog
    My blog and pod...
    Beers of Belgium Cycling Club UK
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Yeah frenchie you can have a picture of Contador's power meter taped over, but that prove's absolutely nothing, what stage was it, was it a joke from the mechanic, did he actually ride with it like that.


    Surely without analysis the numbers aren't that useful: say rider A rode Ax3 in training and pushed 415W up it, but then in the race had cycled 175km before it he isn't going to be able t hit the exact numbers he hit when riding it start to finish in training. He now needs to ride on feel and still rides away and takes the yellow jersey. :D.

    If you've watched the British Cycling documentaries you will see how long the coaches spend going over the data, so I genuinely don't believe the data is that useful in race.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Here you go Frenchie, stage ten on the 2013 Tour de France and your hero has been using his power meter.

    http://cdn1.coresites.mpora.com/rcuk/wp ... Depart.jpg


    Here he is in training

    http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/6 ... ntador.jpg

    Another TDF13 untaped power meter.

    http://pelotoncafe.com.au/wp-content/up ... 00x400.jpg


    here he is after being dropped by froome on double alpe,

    http://d4nuk0dd6nrma.cloudfront.net/wp- ... 78-069.jpg


    JUST SAYING.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Also no idea why he's getting changed half way up a mountain

    http://www.thestar.com.my/~/media/Image ... 13&crop=1&
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Nice photos thanks for posting. The 4th one is right click save. Looking chubby in the 5th.

    Just fyi, just because you have an srm on your bike it doesnt mean you have to display power (it does a lot more than just that), or look at it, or use it, and in fact some riders have it on the bars but no set up on the back wheel so it cant actually show power.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ianwilliams
    ianwilliams Posts: 257
    Good interview with Veilleux here: http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2013/10/mechanical-engineering-advanced.html

    Just seems that he wasn't consumed with the sport completely, and wanted a life after it.
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    As has been said in a number of different ways in this thread. Numbers in a race mean nothing, all that matters, at any given time is, are you going well or are you going badly. You can have all the data you like, staring you in the face, but if you dont have the legs you are still out the back.

    Anyway, If we are going to get rid of all technology in bike racing, HR monitors and power meters will have to go. All aero developments, like bike frames, wheels, helmets, skin suits. Gears on bike will also have to go, they make it too easy for the none climbers to get over the big Cols. Team service vehicles will have to go too, riders will have to carry all spares and food.

    Get real, a power read out will not make you faster, and knowing another riders power output wont help either. :roll:
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Just fyi, just because you have an srm on your bike it doesnt mean you have to display power (it does a lot more than just that), or look at it, or use it, and in fact some riders have it on the bars but no set up on the back wheel so it cant actually show power.

    You don't have come up with some tosh sometimes. A SRM Powercontrol is a bit expensive for a bike computer, a Garmin is considerably cheaper and has the added advantage of supporting GPS.

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