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Russell Brand vs Jeremy Paxman

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  • team47bteam47b Posts: 6,424
    Mikey23 wrote:
    @faf... None taken. Tired Tory claptrap is my speciality

    @t47b... Ok, I confess I don't keep up with his personal life. There is just something about him that winds me up and if he ain't on some substance during that interview, I'll eat my Margaret thatcher poster

    Bon Appétit! :D
    my isetta is a 300cc bike
  • symosymo Posts: 1,743
    morstar wrote:
    Mikey23 wrote:
    Erm, through the vote?[\quote]

    Considering his argument is that democracy doesn't work...

    I assume that remark is a joke!

    Democracy in the UK is a joke. None of parties represent the people, Tories have no legitimacy outside the SE. Labour has no remit inside the M25; SNP and Plaid Cymru are just bigots (but use nationhood as their banner; I just wish they had the balls to say we hate the English but we aren't at all racist).

    Brand's remarks are spot on. We supposedly live in a capitalist society but the banks appear to be socialist as they suffer no consequence for going bankrupt, but everyone beneath them suffer. No government in the UK has an appetite to punish tax avoidance as their friends and backers tend to be the largest users of tax avoidance systems.

    Personally I would prefer a proper capitalist meritocratic government, but Labour and Conservatives are ideologically opposed to such systems, the Tories because their friends would be usurped and Labour for the blind vision of equality at all costs.

    Given up voting, for UKIP read Plaid Cymru and SNP. For EDL read BNP. Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem all say the same thing. Who is left I can vote for?

    Mind you, only my opinion.
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    we are the proud, the few, Descendents.

    Panama - finally putting a nail in the economic theory of the trickle down effect.
  • i think they should get paxo on uni challenge or some other such show and ask him questions and see how clever he is. very i assume
  • team47bteam47b Posts: 6,424
    i think they should get paxo on uni challenge or some other such show and ask him questions and see how clever he is. very i assume

    Assumes amuses Seamus :D
    my isetta is a 300cc bike
  • symo wrote:
    morstar wrote:
    Mikey23 wrote:
    Erm, through the vote?[\quote]

    Considering his argument is that democracy doesn't work...

    I assume that remark is a joke!

    Democracy in the UK is a joke. None of parties represent the people, Tories have no legitimacy outside the SE. Labour has no remit inside the M25; SNP and Plaid Cymru are just bigots (but use nationhood as their banner; I just wish they had the balls to say we hate the English but we aren't at all racist).

    Brand's remarks are spot on. We supposedly live in a capitalist society but the banks appear to be socialist as they suffer no consequence for going bankrupt, but everyone beneath them suffer. No government in the UK has an appetite to punish tax avoidance as their friends and backers tend to be the largest users of tax avoidance systems.

    Personally I would prefer a proper capitalist meritocratic government, but Labour and Conservatives are ideologically opposed to such systems, the Tories because their friends would be usurped and Labour for the blind vision of equality at all costs.

    Given up voting, for UKIP read Plaid Cymru and SNP. For EDL read BNP. Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem all say the same thing. Who is left I can vote for?

    Mind you, only my opinion.

    Compairing the SNP/Plaid to UKIP is just daft. You’re just jealous because Englandshire has been run by the Tories since 1979 and it’s going to stay that way until the end of time (unless you're a Tory of course). At least the SNP and Plaid are trying to do something for their country. If we get independence we’ll bin Salmond and get down to some serious business. We’ll probably start by selling Scotland to Norway :lol:
  • kieranbkieranb Posts: 1,674
    I believe there are a few Labour MPs within the M25? Look at Lewisham for example.

    I do think he has a point, the only problem is trying to find a better alternative. True democracy hasn't had a long running yet, is it about 100 years or less since anyone over 21 could vote, will it be given a chance? Empires have lasted longer so maybe they are better?
  • secretsamsecretsam Posts: 4,948
    Can't be bothered watching it. Self-important and pompous vs unfunny and talentless.

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • edhornbyedhornby Posts: 1,780
    anyone noticed that Russell Brand has the same debating tactic as Boris Johnson? if you get a question you don't like, throw it back at the interviewer slightly more aggressively and then before it comes back a second time, start riffing on a different point... cheap tactic really

    he is right that the political parties aren't delivering for the 99% - but to have no solutions or active steps is just posturing, and he's insufferably narcissistic

    if you want a catalyst for political reform, just start counting and publishing spoilt ballot papers (but no political party is going to run with that one, ay theres the rub)
    "I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
    --Jens Voight
  • RideOnTimeRideOnTime Posts: 4,712
    kieranb wrote:
    I believe there are a few Labour MPs within the M25? Look at Lewisham for example.

    I do think he has a point, the only problem is trying to find a better alternative. True democracy hasn't had a long running yet, is it about 100 years or less since anyone over 21 could vote, will it be given a chance? Empires have lasted longer so maybe they are better?

    100 years is a start...
  • Paulie WPaulie W Posts: 1,492
    Good response from Robert Webb I think: http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/rus ... tion-there
  • giant_mangiant_man Posts: 6,878
    Bloke's an idiot imo, nothing structured to say, just pointing fingers ..
  • cornerblockcornerblock Posts: 3,228
    giant man wrote:
    Bloke's an idiot imo, nothing structured to say, just pointing fingers ..

    I agree, preferred Bamber Gascoigne myself.
  • BigJimmyBBigJimmyB Posts: 1,302
    I think the fact that it is sparking debate is the best thing about it......
  • symosymo Posts: 1,743
    BigJimmyB wrote:
    I think the fact that it is sparking debate is the best thing about it......
    This.......................
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    we are the proud, the few, Descendents.

    Panama - finally putting a nail in the economic theory of the trickle down effect.
  • dilemnadilemna Posts: 2,187
    Boris vs RB would be good.
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • Mikey23Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Paxman saying tonight that he totally agrees with Brand about the general publics disenchantment with politicians and the current political system
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 24,283
    Mikey23 wrote:
    Paxman saying tonight that he totally agrees with Brand about the general publics disenchantment with politicians and the current political system

    I think public disenchantment with politicians has been an ongoing topic to a greater or lesser degree since there were politicians, it's not much to say that you agree that there is disenchantment; it's what you propose to do about it that counts, and I'm not sure Paxman agrees with Brand on that.

    For my part, saying "they are all as bad as each other, so I'm not going to vote for anyone" is just a cop out. For a start, some of them are very much worse than others, so if all you do is make sure that purveyors of reactionary nonsense and bigotry aren't elected, then that's worth doing.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Mikey23Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Well put
  • meursaultmeursault Posts: 1,433
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mikey23 wrote:
    Paxman saying tonight that he totally agrees with Brand about the general publics disenchantment with politicians and the current political system

    I think public disenchantment with politicians has been an ongoing topic to a greater or lesser degree since there were politicians, it's not much to say that you agree that there is disenchantment; it's what you propose to do about it that counts, and I'm not sure Paxman agrees with Brand on that.

    For my part, saying "they are all as bad as each other, so I'm not going to vote for anyone" is just a cop out. For a start, some of them are very much worse than others, so if all you do is make sure that purveyors of reactionary nonsense and bigotry aren't elected, then that's worth doing.

    I think Brand is right. The primary job of an MP is to represent a constituency, to fight for it's best interest. When they are ALL self serving careerists, there is no point in voting for any of them. When the Labour party dropped clause 4 (not that they ever had the bottle to see it through) they released any ideological hold as an alternative to capitalism. So who is fighting for us? the working class?

    The only logical argument I can just about see, is go to the poll and spoil your paper, or as Paxman said, write none of the above. But I don't think that is the answer.
    Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.

    Voltaire
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,386
    Idealist view - An M.P. represents his constituency.
    Realist view - An M.P. represents his party.

    That is what is wrong with the system - Party politics.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • When I read a post earlier in the thread railing against party politics it seemed to me the way to shake up the system without altering the current framework is not to spoil ballots but for more independent MP's to be elected, get a few of them in parliment and the parties would maybe have to have a think about what they do. I'm not sure if that would result in not much ever getting done though with so many differing opinions trying to govern?
  • secretsamsecretsam Posts: 4,948
    Paulie W wrote:
    Good response from Robert Webb I think: http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/rus ... tion-there

    A bit partisan but well put by Mr Webb
    And he's at least funny, so that's Webb 2-0 Brand

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 24,283
    daviesee wrote:
    Idealist view - An M.P. represents his constituency.
    Realist view - An M.P. represents his party.

    That is what is wrong with the system - Party politics.

    An MP represents both his constituency and his party. And there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that so long as the two are balanced. Without political parties, you would just end up with a mess of single issue loudmouths (all of whom will have to be independently wealthy so that they can afford to run an election campaign) unable to agree on what day it was, never mind run a country. Granted some can lose sight of their responsibilities to their constituents, but if their constituents have any sense, they won't be re-elected.

    The balance between party and constituents is a difficult one: for example, your party advocates rationalising parts of the NHS by concentrating services in fewer, larger hospitals, and this may well make sense on a nationwide basis, but an MP never got re-elected for allowing the closure of their local hospital.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,386
    rjsterry wrote:
    The balance between party and constituents is a difficult one: for example, your party advocates rationalising parts of the NHS by concentrating services in fewer, larger hospitals, and this may well make sense on a nationwide basis, but an MP never got re-elected for allowing the closure of their local hospital.
    No?
    Try living in a constituency where they would vote a monkey in if it wore the correct colour of badge.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 24,283
    Ah yes, it's a bit more tribal up there isn't it. 'Safe seats' are the weak point of the system, it's true. I live in a Tory/Lib Dem marginal, and our (Lib Dem) MP is a very visible presence locally.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • edhornbyedhornby Posts: 1,780
    and Paxman has now admitted to not voting.... great :( easy vindication of the idiot, should have kept schtum
    "I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
    --Jens Voight
  • "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer
  • He's written a follow-up.

    Worth a read.
    "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer
  • Mikey23Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Wow that was powerful stuff, thanks for sharing.. The guy is obviously intelligent and articulate. There were a couple of bits where I wasn't quite clear what he is alluding to. It's almost as if he has found religion?
  • Mikey23Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    http://youtu.be/kpuCYnFaOCU

    Ah yes, well I'll be jiggered...
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