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Do i really need a dropper post for enduro

ashleyyyy2011ashleyyyy2011 Posts: 56
edited October 2013 in MTB general
Hi,

Just been to Afan and BPW, a friend of mine who cam with was thinking of selling his reverb because he never used it. 3 days of riding in south Wales and he is claiming it to be the best thing in the world.

He is now saying that i must have one as i'm entering the UK enduro series next year, and my normal post won't cut it.

I did all the stuff he did, and yes i did feel the seat every now and then when it got steep, but my question is, is it worth the £150+ for a post. (i happen to like the KS LEV more than the Reverb, but they aren't as cheap)

Rider feedback would be helpful.

Cheers
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Posts

  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,599
    You don't NEED one.
    But if you want one....
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  • edninoednino Posts: 684
    no, you don't need one

    I think they are stupid
  • I'm a big fan of them. To the extent that I tried riding with just a regular post (and a saddle ;)) on my new bike last weekend and found it horrible.

    That's because I've adapted to using them now though. It's become 2nd nature so when it's not there it's noticable.

    Had I never tried one, I'd not miss it.

    I think they're worth the investment (obviously), but they're not ESSENTIAL by any means. Neither are gears though, or suspension.
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 14,770
    Personally I don't feel the need for one. Just another skills compensator.
    I just ride with my saddle a couple inches lower than normal.
    Apparently you also need 160mm of suspension travel for enduro, I will be doing a couple enduro races on my Anthem and I have no intention of finishing anywhere near last.
    Enduro seems to be basically a new name for what we used to call mountain biking.
  • edninoednino Posts: 684
    Just another skills compensator.

    agree with this statement
  • Mojo_666Mojo_666 Posts: 860
    I wouldn't ride without one and I would say those who don't think they need one have mostly never tried one, or never ride anything with variations between gnarly downs and pain in the censored ups, or have breaks between sections where they can lower/raise saddle anyway. If you are riding an uphill then breaking into some trails with jumps (and plan on leaving the ground) and you need to drop your saddle doing so without stopping is a no brainer especially when you are on the clock.
  • mcnultycopmcnultycop Posts: 2,143
    I didn't think I needed one until I got one.

    I can ride without one, but I'd much rather not. I'm not sure how it compensates for skill, unless I should be able to operate my seat post quick release whilst riding and I'd never learned how to properly.
  • Dave_P1Dave_P1 Posts: 565
    You don't need one but it will help if your racing as there may be sections of the course that require you to sit down and pedal.
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,599
    mcnultycop wrote:
    I didn't think I needed one until I got one.

    I can ride without one, but I'd much rather not. I'm not sure how it compensates for skill, unless I should be able to operate my seat post quick release whilst riding and I'd never learned how to properly.
    You forget Rockmonkey is somewhere between god and jesus.
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  • edninoednino Posts: 684
    mcnultycop wrote:
    I'm not sure how it compensates for skill

    The skill is in doing it with the seatpost at full height.

    as regards to jumps, I've got plenty of photos of Nino getting big air on a hardtail with saddle at full height
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,599
    The real skill would be doing it on a rigid with canti brakes and 550 bars.
    You first.
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  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 14,770
    Mojo_666 wrote:
    I wouldn't ride without one and I would say those who don't think they need one have mostly never tried one, or never ride anything with variations between gnarly downs and pain in the censored ups, or have breaks between sections where they can lower/raise saddle anyway. If you are riding an uphill then breaking into some trails with jumps (and plan on leaving the ground) and you need to drop your saddle doing so without stopping is a no brainer especially when you are on the clock.

    Thats pretty much all I ride. I have tried dropper posts and don't want one. With my saddle 2" lower than ideal pedalling height I can climb and I can still comfortably ride any jumps and drops. Years of riding without one makes it a bit pointless.
  • 97th choice97th choice Posts: 2,222
    FFS, every mtb related technical development could be called a skills compensator. Unless you've got a rigid frame with 580mm bars and no saddle you're obviously sh1te then.
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  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    I can see why people like them, and why they are of benefit to them. What annoys is people who say that if you don't have one you don't ride hard enough/never tried one etc. Is nonsense. Is preference.
  • mcnultycopmcnultycop Posts: 2,143
    ednino wrote:
    mcnultycop wrote:
    I'm not sure how it compensates for skill

    The skill is in doing it with the seatpost at full height.

    Ah. Must make things harder for myself and more dangerous.
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    They make trails more fun! I find it much easier to ride faster with the seat down, yet I'm able to pedal hard with the post up. A section of Coed Y Brenin today really highlighted to me what a difference a dropper can make. Me and 2 other mates, all of similar fitness levels, but they leave me for dead on the downs and I'm no slouch! I set of about 30 seconds if not more behind them and had caught them by the end of the trail. As I caught I could see I was making up time on the climbs and losing a little on climbs, as I say they're both very, very good riders. I put this purely down to me being able to pop the seat up to pedal on the climbs and they couldn't with normal posts. Imo it's impossible not to see how they could make you ride faster. They take some getting used to, I'll admit that, but just like anything else, once you become used to it, it becomes second nature and makes a huge difference to the way you ride. If you live somewhere super flat, I can see why you could argue against them, but frankly for most of the trails around the UK, I wouldn't be without one.

    I'm also willing to bet those who slate them haven't spent any meaningful time on any droppers and are the stubborn fools still stuck in the 19th century and refuse to accept new or modern in any way.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Imo it's impossible not to see how they could make you ride faster

    Again it depends how you ride. They don't make me faster. Or Rockmonkey. And many others. If they make you faster, good.
  • Mojo_666Mojo_666 Posts: 860
    Mojo_666 wrote:
    I wouldn't ride without one and I would say those who don't think they need one have mostly never tried one, or never ride anything with variations between gnarly downs and pain in the censored ups, or have breaks between sections where they can lower/raise saddle anyway. If you are riding an uphill then breaking into some trails with jumps (and plan on leaving the ground) and you need to drop your saddle doing so without stopping is a no brainer especially when you are on the clock.

    Thats pretty much all I ride. I have tried dropper posts and don't want one. With my saddle 2" lower than ideal pedalling height I can climb and I can still comfortably ride any jumps and drops. Years of riding without one makes it a bit pointless.

    You must be made of specail stuff then because for me when I have my saddle at optimum pedal height it is in the way when I want to move the bike arround under me or bring it up closer to me on a jump or if I bunny hope the saddle hits may censored , on steep decents if i cant get back over the rear more then my weight is wrong and I pitch over the front etc etc, that saddle simply needs to be out of the way to do a lot of things for me (and seemingly the majority of people I ride with, even the ones without droppers still lower their saddles manualy)
  • Hob NobHob Nob Posts: 200
    Personally I don't feel the need for one. Just another skills compensator.
    I just ride with my saddle a couple inches lower than normal.
    Apparently you also need 160mm of suspension travel for enduro, I will be doing a couple enduro races on my Anthem and I have no intention of finishing anywhere near last.
    Enduro seems to be basically a new name for what we used to call mountain biking.

    Definitely. Drop these guys a memo, they obvious missed the last one: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Enduro-Wor ... Italy.html

    They are pretty much a 'standard' at the UKGE, Super Enduro & EWS races I have attended. I certainly wouldn't ride without one now if I had the choice.

    Of course though you don't 'need' one, it just makes life easier.
    ednino wrote:
    mcnultycop wrote:
    I'm not sure how it compensates for skill

    The skill is in doing it with the seatpost at full height.

    as regards to jumps, I've got plenty of photos of Nino getting big air on a hardtail with saddle at full height

    Funny how Nino was riding at Finale on a bike with a dropper post...
  • pilchpilch Posts: 1,136
    Personally I don't feel the need for one. Just another skills compensator.
    I just ride with my saddle a couple inches lower than normal.

    Personally I prefer to not destroy my knees by pedalling for long periods with my seat a couple of inches lower so I use a dropper when I want to then raise my seat back to a comfortable position to pedal.

    And you say...
    Personally I don't feel the need for one. Just another skills compensator.

    But...
    I just ride with my saddle a couple inches lower than normal.


    So... dropping your saddle manually is not 'a skills compensator' but using a button to do the same thing is?
    A berm? were you expecting one?

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  • lochussielochussie Posts: 276
    Riding seated with saddle below optimum pedalling height is slower, harder and can lead to knackered back. Seems crazy to spend a load of money on a bike and then accept this compromise. I find it hard to believe that anyone can go as fast/fun/safe on challenging steep/rough/twisty/jumpy terrain with saddle at optimum pedalling height as they can with saddle dropped. After all, you don't see many people riding DH with saddle at full height. It's censored having to have to get off frequently to adjust saddle height, or riding an unknown trail wondering all the time whether it's worth stopping to adjust.

    Of course, you don't need one, but the only issue for me is the reliablity and I can live with that.
  • It can save your knees & Legs a battering, I dont have a dropper on my bike, but have useed them in the past on borrowed bikes and did appreciate them, on an Enduro you would set your saddle at a compromise position that lets you get up the hills and down the steep stuff without having to stop and adjust your seat all the time, but this isnt optimum.
    You dont need one but if your Knees may thank you one day and you will find the down hill more fun and the uphill slightly less of a strain, its on my wish list
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  • pesky_jonespesky_jones Posts: 2,890
    edited October 2013
    pilch wrote:
    Personally I don't feel the need for one. Just another skills compensator.
    I just ride with my saddle a couple inches lower than normal.

    So... dropping your saddle manually is not 'a skills compensator' but using a button to do the same thing is?

    If you lacked the ability to do it manually, and you had to get a dropper, then it would be a skills compensator!
  • Some compelling arguments in here, the thing i find most interesting is the idea it will knacker your knees and back, that could be considered a major factor for me.

    The whole skills compensator idea is IMO not an argument, Suspension, bar widths, stem lengths, tube angles, have all helped us go faster, not be less skillful, there is no way i could have ridden the afan trails on a rigid, long stem, narrow bars bike from the 90s, as fast as i went down on my EX 8 with 130mm F & R travel, wide bars and slacker angles.

    So the dilemma still remains, although i think this is a more valid discussion than wheel size.
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    and i can split the atom of a molecule... of a molecule... of a molecule
  • Hob NobHob Nob Posts: 200
    I don't think the question does remain really. They are pretty much a standard issue part now, and very prominent in this particular genre of racing. I'd go so far as to say 95% of people are running droppers in the races I have done.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    As above- you don't need it, you might well find it very useful. And it's absolutely nothing to do with dropping your saddle, the number of people not doing that in enduro races is zero- it's about raising it. Really we call them by the wrong name. Of course, you can climb with a dropped post but every bit of effort you waste doing that comes out of the effort you can put in elsewhere.

    Does depend very much on the event though, some races I've done have had horrible pedals where not having a dropper would be brutal and a big disadvantage (in one inners race a local feller timed himself on the lap and discovered he was better off jumping off, raising the seat, doing the climb then dropping it again at the end, because if he rode the climb out of the saddle he couldn't pedal the final section as hard). Other ones, it's basically irrelevant, I fitted a standard post for the first inners night/day race because I'd never have used the dropper (but I figured I was fairly likely to crash :) )

    The point of enduro racing, for most people, is that you don't need anything you don't have- you just rock up on the bike you already choose to ride this sort of thing on. But you can choose to spend money to make it better for the job, if you want.

    But that works both ways, because what works for enduro racing usually works well for normal riding. I wouldn't be without my dropper posts now, they're a gamechanger for everyday riding. In the garage I have a 20lb rigid mtb with a dropper- riding without suspension is a laugh, riding without a dropper is just annoying. People bang on about flow as the holy grail of biking and absolutely nothing else adds flow like a dropper.
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  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    Northwind wrote:
    The point of enduro racing, for most people, is that you don't need anything you don't have- you just rock up on the bike you already choose to ride this sort of thing on. But you can choose to spend money to make it better for the job, if you want.

    But that works both ways, because what works for enduro racing usually works well for normal riding. I wouldn't be without my dropper posts now, they're a gamechanger for everyday riding. In the garage I have a 20lb rigid mtb with a dropper- riding without suspension is a laugh, riding without a dropper is just annoying. People bang on about flow as the holy grail of biking and absolutely nothing else adds flow like a dropper.

    Couldn't put it better myself!
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 14,770
    lochussie wrote:
    After all, you don't see many people riding DH with saddle at full height.

    Have you never seen how high Steve Peat has his saddle?
    You don't need it dropped to the top tube. Two inches lower than optimum pedalling height at most.
    I rarely drop my saddle unless I know there are good size jumps.
    People did manage to ride fast before droppers were available.
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    lochussie wrote:
    After all, you don't see many people riding DH with saddle at full height.

    Have you never seen how high Steve Peat has his saddle?
    You don't need it dropped to the top tube. Two inches lower than optimum pedalling height at most.
    I rarely drop my saddle unless I know there are good size jumps.
    People did manage to ride fast before droppers were available.

    Have you seen how tall Steve Peat is?! :lol: When I rode Llandegla last year without a dropper, I set the saddle in between the optimum height for climbing descending and quite frankly, it was far from the best of both worlds. It was the worst of everything. I couldn't sit down and mash the pedals, I couldn't drop it out the way, it murdered my back, killed my knees and generally made me miserable.

    Sure you don't need one, hell as has been said you don't need suspension gears, discs brakes whatever, people rode fast without those too, but I don't see anyone moaning about it! :wink: Give it 5 years and they'll be standard on all but entry level and proper weight weeny bikes.
  • Hob NobHob Nob Posts: 200
    lochussie wrote:
    After all, you don't see many people riding DH with saddle at full height.

    Have you never seen how high Steve Peat has his saddle?
    You don't need it dropped to the top tube. Two inches lower than optimum pedalling height at most.
    I rarely drop my saddle unless I know there are good size jumps.
    People did manage to ride fast before droppers were available.

    Except at Finale (and Punta Ala) he ran a dropper post, like everyone else...

    I'm sure you will be fine at the Enduro's next season, with your seatpost dropped just a couple of inches, and no doubt you will tell us how many people you beat who had one.
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