2013 ZIpp 303 or 2014 Reynolds assault

pearceygy

Merlin cycles have the zipps on offer for £1,499 and the 2014 Reynolds assault will be on sale for £1,299
both wheel sets have a claimed weight of 1475g with good reviews so has anybody had both these wheel to give a fair comparison?
I live in Lincolnshire which is a mixture of flat with various short sharp hills I'm currently on Mavic Ksyriums elite s but find these very sluggish and rough to ride, so I,m looking at my new pair for increased speed and comfort.
cheers.

itsnotarace

Given the 2014 Assaults were only announced recently, I doubt anyone owns any yet. In the past, the Assaults have been given crappier hubs than the FortySixes which are more of a direct comparison with the Zipps on price.

Riding either won't make you faster, or more comfortable.

I would take the Zipps out of the two, I love my 303s

pearceygy

itsnotarace wrote:

Given the 2014 Assaults were only announced recently, I doubt anyone owns any yet. In the past, the Assaults have been given crappier hubs than the FortySixes which are more of a direct comparison with the Zipps on price.

Riding either won't make you faster, or more comfortable.

I would take the Zipps out of the two, I love my 303s

So what is it exactly that you love about them?
I've read read plenty of reviews where people insist they do make a diffrence so in your opinion
If upgrading these crap ksyriums isn't going to make any real diffrence ie speed, comfort, what other reasons would I choose to justify a £1500 upgrade?

ugo.santalucia

pearceygy wrote:

itsnotarace wrote:

Given the 2014 Assaults were only announced recently, I doubt anyone owns any yet. In the past, the Assaults have been given crappier hubs than the FortySixes which are more of a direct comparison with the Zipps on price.

Riding either won't make you faster, or more comfortable.

I would take the Zipps out of the two, I love my 303s

So what is it exactly that you love about them?
I've read read plenty of reviews where people insist they do make a diffrence so in your opinion
If upgrading these crap ksyriums isn't going to make any real diffrence ie speed, comfort, what other reasons would I choose to justify a £1500 upgrade?

If you look for comfort, you won't find it in a pair of race oriented wheels... maybe in a pair of tyres with a high TPI count, bigger volume?
As for the speed, how much faster do you want to be in order to invest £ 1500?

smidsy

pearceygy wrote:

If upgrading these crap ksyriums isn't going to make any real diffrence ie speed, comfort, what other reasons would I choose to justify a £1500 upgrade?

They look pro innit!

turnerjohn

though I love me 404's to be honest a set of good aero handbuilt wheels would be just as good (lighter) and about half the price, plus easy to fix.....I had to re-lace my rear 404 and it set me back around £90...and that was done with sourcing parts abroad ! They look PRO and yes they are slightly faster but their a lot of money for not that much gain.

itsnotarace

pearceygy wrote:

So what is it exactly that you love about them?
I've read read plenty of reviews where people insist they do make a diffrence so in your opinion
If upgrading these crap ksyriums isn't going to make any real diffrence ie speed, comfort, what other reasons would I choose to justify a £1500 upgrade?

1. The weight - my front wheel is 514 grams and the rear is 640 grams bare = 1154g for the pair (tubulars)

2. Acceleration is immense when sprinting out of corners compared to my other pairs of wheels

3. Breezing up hills with little inertia to overcome

4. Hubs are easy to maintain, can be swapped between Shimano and Campag within a few minutes

5. Bearings are really slick and spin beautifully

6. Really strong, no worries bunny hopping potholes

7. External nipples so they can be trued without having to remove and reglue the tub (not that i've had to true them in 18 months but Reynolds are internal nipples last time I checked = admittedly this is less of an issue with clinchers)

8. Commonly used CX Ray spokes can be replaced easily and cheaply (again not that I've needed to)

9. Speed is much easier to maintain once you get above 20mph

Perhaps you should book test rides on both, maybe some or none of these things matter to you but £1500 is a lot of outlay so you want to get it right.

pearceygy

itsnotarace wrote:

pearceygy wrote:

So what is it exactly that you love about them?
I've read read plenty of reviews where people insist they do make a diffrence so in your opinion
If upgrading these crap ksyriums isn't going to make any real diffrence ie speed, comfort, what other reasons would I choose to justify a £1500 upgrade?

1. The weight - my front wheel is 514 grams and the rear is 640 grams bare = 1154g for the pair (tubulars)

2. Acceleration is immense when sprinting out of corners compared to my other pairs of wheels

3. Breezing up hills with little inertia to overcome

4. Hubs are easy to maintain, can be swapped between Shimano and Campag within a few minutes

5. Bearings are really slick and spin beautifully

6. Really strong, no worries bunny hopping potholes

7. External nipples so they can be trued without having to remove and reglue the tub (not that i've had to true them in 18 months but Reynolds are internal nipples last time I checked = admittedly this is less of an issue with clinchers)

8. Commonly used CX Ray spokes can be replaced easily and cheaply (again not that I've needed to)

9. Speed is much easier to maintain once you get above 20mph

Perhaps you should book test rides on both, maybe some or none of these things matter to you but £1500 is a lot of outlay so you want to get it right.

Thanks for the explanation maintaining speed is a factor for me as it can be hard keeping up with some of the lads on fast straights who all happen to have areo type deeper wheels than me.

sloppyschleckonds

Enve 3.4

itsnotarace

pearceygy wrote:

Thanks for the explanation maintaining speed is a factor for me as it can be hard keeping up with some of the lads on fast straights who all happen to have areo type deeper wheels than me.

Yes, but don't go and spend £1500 thinking they will add 1mph to your average speed, you just need to do less work to be able to stick with them. If you rode harder on your current wheels it would be the same outcome, or got into a more aerodynamic position on the bike by using the drops more and concentrating on keeping frontal area minimised.

ugo.santalucia

itsnotarace wrote:

7. External nipples so they can be trued without having to remove and reglue the tub (not that i've had to true them in 18 months but Reynolds are internal nipples last time I checked = admittedly this is less of an issue with clinchers)

Yes, in theory... I had a few problems doing exactly that... this is the older model and clincher, but spokes and nipples are the same, so one can extrapolate

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... o-zipp-now

I have contacted Zipp who unhelpfully told me this is a rare occurrence (while it's common knowledge it's not) not that they made any attempt to be helpful otherwise. For that kind of money one would expect at least a bunch of replacement spokes free of charge with no fuss (if it is such a rare occurrence wouldn't ruin them)... even Planet X would do that and they charge 3 quid for their carbon wheels...

thegreatdivide

'he uses them for racing rather than for cafe' glory'

You should get that MASSIVE chip off your shoulder ugo! So this bloke is a better person because he races yeah? Get a grip. People can buy whatever they want for whatever reason they want.

OP - I have 2013 303 FC's (tub version) and they are great wheels. As pointed out by the poster above, they're light, they're responsive, they're easy to maintain and best of all they look smart. The new FC black hubs are NOT the older silver models which, on rare occasions, had a few issues. Find me lots of internet tails of woe of 2012 (V8) or 2013 (V9) 88/188 hubs exploding like hand grenades and I'll eat my saddle...

DavidJB

FFWD's much better than either.

itsnotarace

Give over on spokes Ugo please, it's a non issue. The CX rays are in the Zipps are a common length and can be picked up at any good LBS

The posts you make on most wheel threads just smack of jealousy tbh

thegreatdivide

It basically means that 'normal' cyclists must ride 32 hole alu rims on sensible hubs while 'real' competitive cyclists are allowed to ride deep section or super-light wheels. If this isn't elitism...

ugo.santalucia

The two of you enjoy picking on my posts, it's nothing new and that's fine... I have no problem with that.

However, I think it would be more useful for the thread and the OP if you actually found a flaw in my reasoning, instead of wondering if I am Elitarian, or Envious or Conservative or Neonazi... which is frankly irrelevant.

What I said is that because Zipp has chosen to use CX ray + untreated alloy nipples, they do come stuck and the potential advantage of the user being able to true them is neglected, often leaving with a full rebuild as the only option... where is the flaw?

ivanoile

Campagnolo Bora 35 or Bora One would be better than Zipps and Reynolds

itsnotarace

ugo.santalucia wrote:

What I said is that because Zipp has chosen to use CX ray + untreated alloy nipples, they do come stuck and the potential advantage of the user being able to true them is neglected, often leaving with a full rebuild as the only option... where is the flaw?

What if I said I was thinking of spending a few quid having my Zipps rebuilt onto different hubs, just for fucking fun and screw the expense! They're not my only set of wheels, they are my happy sunny summer wheels

I can picture the steam coming out of your ears as you type your reply

ugo.santalucia

itsnotarace wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

What I said is that because Zipp has chosen to use CX ray + untreated alloy nipples, they do come stuck and the potential advantage of the user being able to true them is neglected, often leaving with a full rebuild as the only option... where is the flaw?

What if I said I was thinking of spending a few quid having my Zipps rebuilt onto different hubs, just for ******* fun and screw the expense! They're not my only set of wheels, they are my happy sunny summer wheels

I can picture the steam coming out of your ears as you type your reply

Do as you wish, I can't care less what you do with your money, if you want to burn it to light a cigar while you ride a shopping trolley on the Blackpool roller coaster, fine... I just think the OP has the right to be informed correctly and your point 7, although valid in principle, needed to be challenged, as my experience is that that's not the case.. end of

waterford123

if you want to burn it to light a cigar while you ride a shopping trolley on the Blackpool roller coaster,

I've 'done this. It's mental, right waste of money.

itsnotarace

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Do as you wish, I can't care less what you do with your money, if you want to burn it to light a cigar while you ride a shopping trolley on the Blackpool roller coaster, fine... I just think the OP has the right to be informed correctly and your point 7, although valid in principle, needed to be challenged, as my experience is that that's not the case.. end of

As you can see, I have done my responsible bit for the thread and told OP that he isn't going to see X mph increase in average speed and nor is he going to find more comfort, both of which were his reasons for upgrading. If he chooses to go ahead and spend that kind of money it's up to him to perform due diligence on the purchase and research as much as possible before making an informed decision. I am giving him the facts based on my own experiences as a long term user of these wheels to do so.

If your experiences with older models differs then fine, but your entire attitude towards factory wheels sucks quite frankly and basically reads the same every single time. Your posts just read like you have read something on the internet one time in some random place and regurgitated it for your own purposes whilst having zero actual experience with these wheels the OP is asking about, just like the Mavic SLR thread.

Carry on banging your "handbuilt H PLus Son on crappy hubs" drums, and enjoy your 1800 gram wheels. I will continue to enjoy my 1154 gram wheels sans spoke issues while laughing at you.

ivanoile

itsnotarace wrote:

Carry on banging your "handbuilt H PLus Son on crappy hubs" drums, and enjoy your 1800 gram wheels. I will continue to enjoy my 1154 gram wheels sans spoke issues while laughing at you.

I agreed until this part.TBH I like more handbuilt wheels than Zipps,as guys with Zipps usualy think that they are the best and number one thing in the race.And they talk about other people like you here.
And on the other side,you have to have a bit respect to the guy who is trying to reccomend something other,different than your's Zipps.

itsnotarace

Fair enough, I am only laughing at his narrow-mindedness that everyone who rides factory wheels should be lined up and shot.

I don't think I am the best because I ride Zipps. Far from it. I'm just fed up of Ugo jumping into every single wheel thread on this forum and offering his blinkered view

I don't comment on many threads on here asking for advice, unless I have specific experience about the product being discussed, and yet Ugo does it with impunity and hides behind his moderator status as if that is something to be feared.

ugo.santalucia

itsnotarace wrote:

Fair enough, I am only laughing at his narrow-mindedness that everyone who rides factory wheels should be lined up and shot.

Thanks for the free insult, as usual, is well received. Didn't line you up and shoot you, just commented on one of your points... with manners, I think

itsnotarace wrote:

I don't think I am the best because I ride Zipps. Far from it. I'm just fed up of Ugo jumping into every single wheel thread on this forum and offering his blinkered view

Again, thanks for the free compliment...

itsnotarace wrote:

I don't comment on many threads on here asking for advice, unless I have specific experience about the product being discussed, and yet Ugo does it with impunity and hides behind his moderator status as if that is something to be feared.

You have nothing to fear. If anything, my status as moderator is protecting you and a couple of others, who would otherwise get a ban for the unacceptable language they use when they reply to a polite comment.

smidsy

seems elderone has a like minded soul at last!

davidwilcock

Just get the ones with your favourite stickers

itsnotarace

ugo.santalucia wrote:

You have nothing to fear. If anything, my status as moderator is protecting you and a couple of others, who would otherwise get a ban for the unacceptable language they use when they reply to a polite comment.

You would have to ban half the forum in that case, there are many more insults in threads asides from this one.

Are you still flouting the forum rules yourself by advertising your wheelbuilding business?

Actually, I'll tell you what. How about you stop commenting on threads about factory wheels you have no experience with, and I will stop pulling you up over it. How does that sound?

northpole

I have no experience of the Reynolds. I have the clincher version of the 303's, sort of!! I tried to dip my toes in carbon rimmed wheels by buying a 303 FC rear and paired it with a dura ace c35. The logic (if any!) was a lack of confidence in a carbon brake surface on both wheels.

This odd pairing works for me (I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why it's daft as a brush!). I still have my fulcrum zero's and recently switched back to them with hardier tyres in preparation for the autumn weather. What struck me was how stiff the fulcrums feel after the other wheels - a bit of a shock combined with the very stiff frame on my bike - particularly going over cattle grids in the New Forest!

I still think I prefer the idea of an alloy braking surface and quite probably if I were to buy a set of wheels again, I'd probably opt for the dura ace (assuming I could find a hub to suit Campag!) as good all rounders, even if they carry a minor weight penalty. For my level of riding I don't think there has been any noticable difference in speed - sportives are as racy as I get! Strangely, I have found them more comfortable, albeit in the mixed configuration mentioned above.

As an aside, one other thing worth the OP thinking through - some folks won't give this a second thought, others in hindsight may recognise this. Setting aside the money aspect, when you kit your bike out with Zipps and the like, they can set a level of performance expectation in your mind and the mind of others! Just make sure you are comfortable in your mind's eye about this, combined with your level of fitness.

Peter

Colinthecop

waterford123 wrote:

I've 'done this. It's mental, right waste of money.

Have you got any pics so others can experience it without having to waste money...?

8)

neeb

itsnotarace wrote:

As you can see, I have done my responsible bit for the thread and told OP that he isn't going to see X mph increase in average speed

Actually, he should do, although "X" here is probably something like 0.3... Still, if you ride exactly the same route at the same level of effort you will probably notice a small increase in speed on solo rides with deep section wheels. You may not notice this from one ride to the next because there are several other factors (not least wind) that vary from one ride to another and have the same or greater effects, but your averages over several rides should go up by a little bit (definitely only a fraction of 1mph though). And if you get really light tubs, they will certainly feel nice and responsive. Whether or not you think this is worth the money is up to you.

ugo.santalucia

itsnotarace wrote:

You would have to ban half the forum in that case, there are many more insults in threads asides from this one.

The vast majority of forum users are well behaved and have manners, it's only you and a handful of others who use abusive tone and have anger management issues. We do ban people from time to time. This is the forum of a commercial site and abusive tone and language are not tolerated

itsnotarace wrote:

Are you still flouting the forum rules yourself by advertising your wheelbuilding business?

Don't know, check for yourself...

itsnotarace wrote:

Actually, I'll tell you what. How about you stop commenting on threads about factory wheels you have no experience with, and I will stop pulling you up over it. How does that sound?

Deal