New Walking Jacket

Peddle Up!

I'm up for a new walking jacket. I've used Berghaus in the past, but the GorTex seems to fail after a couple of years. I hear good things about Paramo, but I hear bad things too. Any tips guys?

pandosdad

Have a look at the skogstad website. Good value and well made

MichaelW

Ignore the bad things.

morstar

Unusual for Gore to fail after just a couple of years. Do you reproof? It may be breathability you're losing rather than waterproofing.

cougie

I've had paramo and I've had berghaus.

I prefer paramo. My last coat lasted years.

Peddle Up!

morstar wrote:

Unusual for Gore to fail after just a couple of years. Do you reproof? It may be breathability you're losing rather than waterproofing.

Yes, with Nikwax but the membrane failed in several places (I had Lancashire Sports Repairs take a look at it.

Peddle Up!

pandosdad wrote:

Have a look at the skogstad website. Good value and well made

Never heard of them, but well worth exploring. Thanks.

Escher303

By far the best walking jacket I've had is a Rab Vapour Rise, copes with typical UK drizzly, humid weather better than anything else I've had. Soft shell so not 100% waterproof, but you just get really damp in a waterproof through sweat anyway. I carry a cheap and lightweight waterproof to throw on over the top if it's really chucking it down. The hood is good, the fabric is extremely tough, done a lot of climbing in it too, it's brilliant. For context (and I was a bit of an outdoor gear addict until I changed to bikes) I've had both hard and soft shell jackets from The North Face, arcteryx, Berghaus, haglofs, Patagonia, montane, buffalo, paramo and used Goretex, paclite, pertex, event and several soft shell fabrics. The Rab is the most useful in most conditions Found most of the time in the UK in my experience. Coupled with a pertex insulated jacket, a pertex windproof and a lightweight cheap waterproof I can cope with any situation from full on arctic, cairngorm hoolie to all day peeing down. Much less weighty than other systems too.

claddo

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com

Outdoor Gear Lab... great comparative reviews.
There are plenty of other/similar materials to Gore Tex out there now as well.
I have a Marmot Paceline that I'm pretty fond of (its even good on the bike). Super stretchy & light. My Millet triple Gore Tex is for winter hikes and skiing.
The Patagonia & Arcteryx stuff always looks stylish & beautifully finished

As Escher says; look at the softshell stuff closely as well.

Pross

If only you could find anywhere that actually sells NFTO stuff then you could buy a jacket that would help fund a pro cycling team

morstar

Peddle Up! wrote:

morstar wrote:

Unusual for Gore to fail after just a couple of years. Do you reproof? It may be breathability you're losing rather than waterproofing.

Yes, with Nikwax but the membrane failed in several places (I had Lancashire Sports Repairs take a look at it.

Fair enough, they are the guys who know their stuff.

Is there something you're doing to contribute to the failure? e.g. lightweight jacket + heavy rucsac? Have you tried 3 layer goretex if durability is an issue?

Not having a dig, just curious, I used to sell the stuff in a previous life and out of literally thousands of jackets sold per year, the genuine returns rate (outside of obvious triers on) was genuinely minimal. I find it unlikely that 10 years on Gore would be any less durable than in my retail days.

None of that is to say there aren't many good alternatives.

Peddle Up!

morstar wrote:

Peddle Up! wrote:

morstar wrote:

Unusual for Gore to fail after just a couple of years. Do you reproof? It may be breathability you're losing rather than waterproofing.

Yes, with Nikwax but the membrane failed in several places (I had Lancashire Sports Repairs take a look at it.

Fair enough, they are the guys who know their stuff.

Is there something you're doing to contribute to the failure? e.g. lightweight jacket + heavy rucsac? Have you tried 3 layer goretex if durability is an issue?

Not having a dig, just curious, I used to sell the stuff in a previous life and out of literally thousands of jackets sold per year, the genuine returns rate (outside of obvious triers on) was genuinely minimal. I find it unlikely that 10 years on Gore would be any less durable than in my retail days.

None of that is to say there aren't many good alternatives.

I'm at a loss on what might have caused it. I have been carrying a heavy 'sac but the worst failures were on the sleeves. :?

Garry H

Gore Tex is guaranteed "for life". If the fabric is letting water through, they will replace it.

My preference is for eVent jackets. Montane make a couple of decent ones.

Agree with the comments about the Rab Vapour Rise as well, although not very good in a prolonged downpour. Also check out the Montane and marmot variants.

morstar

Peddle Up! wrote:

I'm at a loss on what might have caused it. I have been carrying a heavy 'sac but the worst failures were on the sleeves. :?

A fight with Brambles maybe?

RE, the lifetime guarantee... Gore do genuinely honour this but it is subject to wear and tear. I.e. if the jacket is uncompromised but leaks, they do replace some very old products. If the issue is wear and tear, they will reject.

I do recall a problem on the sleeves once but can't remeber the outcome.

Event fabric is good, it is essentially Gore tex (PTFE) but the way they apply the protective treatments to the membrane enable it to retain increased breathability.

Garry H

I've had two Gore Tex replacements over the years, no quibble. All three jackets were heavily used, climbed in etc.

secretsam

not north face - had some of their stuff, not impressed

I need a new jacket too - my old CragHopper's died - so any reasonably-priced recommendations welcomed

CHRISNOIR

I splashed out on a Haglofs Spitz jacket a few years ago and it's been brilliant. Lightweight, extremely waterproof and warm despite being thin material. Very good as an outer shell although I think it's really designed for climbing.

Agree about North Face though - seem to have lost it a bit.

buckles

I genuinely misread the thread title. Thoughts were a mix of 'joke thread' and 'why would any one need a jacket for that?'

Peddle Up!

Buckles wrote:

I genuinely misread the thread title. Thoughts were a mix of 'joke thread' and 'why would any one need a jacket for that?'

:shock: :shock:

pinno

Walking !?!?! WTF do you want to do that for?









PS Berghaus

Pross

Buckles wrote:

I genuinely misread the thread title. Thoughts were a mix of 'joke thread' and 'why would any one need a jacket for that?'

Well....

CHRISNOIR wrote:

I splashed out on a Haglofs Spitz jacket

:shock:

Peddle Up!

Thanks for all the advice guys (and the humorous diversions :roll: ). I decided to go for a Paramo in the end as the (very) favourable reviews far outweighed the negative ones. Go Outdoors are doing a good price on the Alta 2 so I bought one of those.

First impressions are good. The quality of construction is excellent and zips and fittings are especially good. For important closures the jacket has poppers rather than Velcro which usually gets clogged with fluff in my experience. I'm planning a walk in the rain on Sunday so I can test the water resistance.

I think the jacket is best suited for autumn and winter use as it keeps you warm (but no sweaty).

Regarding my old jacket does anyone know if a warranty claim can be lodged in respect of the Gortex failure in the sleeves? Thanks.

lakesluddite

Buckles wrote:

I genuinely misread the thread title. Thoughts were a mix of 'joke thread' and 'why would any one need a jacket for that?'

...well you can get a smoking jacket - everyone needs a hobby!

mpatts

Peddle Up! wrote:

Thanks for all the advice guys (and the humorous diversions :roll: ). I decided to go for a Paramo in the end as the (very) favourable reviews far outweighed the negative ones. Go Outdoors are doing a good price on the Alta 2 so I bought one of those.

First impressions are good. The quality of construction is excellent and zips and fittings are especially good. For important closures the jacket has poppers rather than Velcro which usually gets clogged with fluff in my experience. I'm planning a walk in the rain on Sunday so I can test the water resistance.

I think the jacket is best suited for autumn and winter use as it keeps you warm (but no sweaty).

Regarding my old jacket does anyone know if a warranty claim can be lodged in respect of the Gortex failure in the sleeves? Thanks.

Berghaus are excellent at warranty claims in my experience - give them a call.

I once tried to claim on the lifetime warranty on my mountain hardwear softshell - it was the first gen one, I'd had it for 10 years. They told me to eff off (nicely). I bought another one!

dilemna

mpatts wrote:

Peddle Up! wrote:

Thanks for all the advice guys (and the humorous diversions :roll: ). I decided to go for a Paramo in the end as the (very) favourable reviews far outweighed the negative ones. Go Outdoors are doing a good price on the Alta 2 so I bought one of those.

First impressions are good. The quality of construction is excellent and zips and fittings are especially good. For important closures the jacket has poppers rather than Velcro which usually gets clogged with fluff in my experience. I'm planning a walk in the rain on Sunday so I can test the water resistance.

I think the jacket is best suited for autumn and winter use as it keeps you warm (but no sweaty).

Regarding my old jacket does anyone know if a warranty claim can be lodged in respect of the Gortex failure in the sleeves? Thanks.

Berghaus are excellent at warranty claims in my experience - give them a call.

I once tried to claim on the lifetime warranty on my mountain hardwear softshell - it was the first gen one, I'd had it for 10 years. They told me to eff off (nicely). I bought another one!

Lifetime warranty applies to the life of the product not the owner ............... So if you'd had it 10 years and it was worn out no wonder they told you to sling your hook. The jacket was at the end of it's life. But you bought another one.

dilemna

Garry H wrote:

Gore Tex is guaranteed "for life". If the fabric is letting water through, they will replace it.

My preference is for eVent jackets. Montane make a couple of decent ones.

Agree with the comments about the Rab Vapour Rise as well, although not very good in a prolonged downpour. Also check out the Montane and marmot variants.

The Rab Vapour Rise Jacket is not billed as being waterproof as it does not have have a waterproof breathable membrane but a Pertex windproof shell which is obviously windproof and water resistant for maximum breathability. It will keep you dry in light to moderate rain but in a heavy down pour - no. You would need to wear a hardshell ie a jacket such as the Rab Neoshell Polartec which is a jacket with water proof membrane with taped seams over the top to keep you dry, or an umbrella ................

The Rab Neoshell Polartec has a hood that can also accommodate a climbing helmet. Combine it with the Rab Strata Polartec windproof jacket beneath and you have a complete layering system to keep you dry and warm in the most challenging conditions. Because the Strata jacket is Polartec Alpha it regulates your body temp so you stay warm but do not get sweaty, damp or clammy as it's breathability is superb. It is currently the most breathable insulated jacket on the market. You can wear the Strata on it's own as it is totally windproof and pretty water resistant although not waterproof. Put the Neoshell over it when the weather turns ugly.

The new recently released Gore-tex Pro is pretty good nearly 30% more breathable than "old" Gore-tex and abrasion resistance is far superior so if your are climbing then far more robust if sliding over rocks or carrying a back pack compared to "old" Gore-tex. The new Mountain Equipment Gore-Tex Pro Tupilak and Lhotse jackets are gorgeous.

North Face Summit series jackets are ok. They use the new Gore-tex Pro. Cheaper TNF jackets use their own waterproof breathable fabric Hyvent. Their jackets have a broader cut than Rab and Mountain Equipment.

Berghaus use Gore-tex in traditional cuts ie longer jackets and for wider fatter people. Their own waterproof breathable fabric AQ2 is ok. I have one of these as it has a good hood and it's fine for cycling. I'm not fat, I've a size small which has lots of space for extra layers underneath.

I would avoid Montane as made in the UK and their customer service is not great. I had a Montane cycling Featherlite shell which was crap. Avoid.

dilemna

Pross wrote:

If only you could find anywhere that actually sells NFTO stuff then you could buy a jacket that would help fund a pro cycling team

NFTO?

buckles

dilemna wrote:

Pross wrote:

If only you could find anywhere that actually sells NFTO stuff then you could buy a jacket that would help fund a pro cycling team

NFTO?

Yes, NFTO.

Garry H

dilemna wrote:

Garry H wrote:

Gore Tex is guaranteed "for life". If the fabric is letting water through, they will replace it.

My preference is for eVent jackets. Montane make a couple of decent ones.

Agree with the comments about the Rab Vapour Rise as well, although not very good in a prolonged downpour. Also check out the Montane and marmot variants.

The Rab Vapour Rise Jacket is not billed as being waterproof as it does not have have a waterproof breathable membrane but a Pertex windproof shell which is obviously windproof and water resistant for maximum breathability. It will keep you dry in light to moderate rain but in a heavy down pour - no. You would need to wear a hardshell ie a jacket such as the Rab Neoshell Polartec which is a jacket with water proof membrane with taped seams over the top to keep you dry, or an umbrella ................

The Rab Neoshell Polartec has a hood that can also accommodate a climbing helmet. Combine it with the Rab Strata Polartec windproof jacket beneath and you have a complete layering system to keep you dry and warm in the most challenging conditions. Because the Strata jacket is Polartec Alpha it regulates your body temp so you stay warm but do not get sweaty, damp or clammy as it's breathability is superb. It is currently the most breathable insulated jacket on the market. You can wear the Strata on it's own as it is totally windproof and pretty water resistant although not waterproof. Put the Neoshell over it when the weather turns ugly.

The new recently released Gore-tex Pro is pretty good nearly 30% more breathable than "old" Gore-tex and abrasion resistance is far superior so if your are climbing then far more robust if sliding over rocks or carrying a back pack compared to "old" Gore-tex. The new Mountain Equipment Gore-Tex Pro Tupilak and Lhotse jackets are gorgeous.

North Face Summit series jackets are ok. They use the new Gore-tex Pro. Cheaper TNF jackets use their own waterproof breathable fabric Hyvent. Their jackets have a broader cut than Rab and Mountain Equipment.

Berghaus use Gore-tex in traditional cuts ie longer jackets and for wider fatter people. Their own waterproof breathable fabric AQ2 is ok. I have one of these as it has a good hood and it's fine for cycling. I'm not fat, I've a size small which has lots of space for extra layers underneath.

I would avoid Montane as made in the UK and their customer service is not great. I had a Montane cycling Featherlite shell which was crap. Avoid.

If only they put as much thought into cycling jackets, instead of opting for feckin windstopper all the time!! Why don't the likes of Patagonia make any??!!!

morstar

Because you're going to get hot and sweaty riding so why bother using expensive waterproof membranes and constructions when windstopper gives good water resistance but better breathability.
Interesting comments above about Montane. The perspective is that of a mountaineer who puts a premium on durability. Long distance runners who put a premium on lighter weight generally regard Montane as a premium brand. Very much horses for courses.

dilemna

Garry H wrote:

dilemna wrote:

Garry H wrote:

Gore Tex is guaranteed "for life". If the fabric is letting water through, they will replace it.

My preference is for eVent jackets. Montane make a couple of decent ones.

Agree with the comments about the Rab Vapour Rise as well, although not very good in a prolonged downpour. Also check out the Montane and marmot variants.

The Rab Vapour Rise Jacket is not billed as being waterproof as it does not have have a waterproof breathable membrane but a Pertex windproof shell which is obviously windproof and water resistant for maximum breathability. It will keep you dry in light to moderate rain but in a heavy down pour - no. You would need to wear a hardshell ie a jacket such as the Rab Neoshell Polartec which is a jacket with water proof membrane with taped seams over the top to keep you dry, or an umbrella ................

The Rab Neoshell Polartec has a hood that can also accommodate a climbing helmet. Combine it with the Rab Strata Polartec windproof jacket beneath and you have a complete layering system to keep you dry and warm in the most challenging conditions. Because the Strata jacket is Polartec Alpha it regulates your body temp so you stay warm but do not get sweaty, damp or clammy as it's breathability is superb. It is currently the most breathable insulated jacket on the market. You can wear the Strata on it's own as it is totally windproof and pretty water resistant although not waterproof. Put the Neoshell over it when the weather turns ugly.

The new recently released Gore-tex Pro is pretty good nearly 30% more breathable than "old" Gore-tex and abrasion resistance is far superior so if your are climbing then far more robust if sliding over rocks or carrying a back pack compared to "old" Gore-tex. The new Mountain Equipment Gore-Tex Pro Tupilak and Lhotse jackets are gorgeous.

North Face Summit series jackets are ok. They use the new Gore-tex Pro. Cheaper TNF jackets use their own waterproof breathable fabric Hyvent. Their jackets have a broader cut than Rab and Mountain Equipment.

Berghaus use Gore-tex in traditional cuts ie longer jackets and for wider fatter people. Their own waterproof breathable fabric AQ2 is ok. I have one of these as it has a good hood and it's fine for cycling. I'm not fat, I've a size small which has lots of space for extra layers underneath.

I would avoid Montane as made in the UK and their customer service is not great. I had a Montane cycling Featherlite shell which was crap. Avoid.

If only they put as much thought into cycling jackets, instead of opting for feckin windstopper all the time!! Why don't the likes of Patagonia make any??!!!

Cycling is a highly aerobic activity meaning you get hot produce a lot of heat and moisture. Many waterproof breathable membranes are not able to cope and you end up "boiling or freezing in the bag". A windproof jacket with strong DWR is far better option as it is more breathable and you are more likely to stay dry unless it is tipping it down which if it does you put a water proof breathable membrane on. Simples.

AFAIK Patagonia do not make clothing specifically for cycling. Try Endura, Assos or other cycle specific clothing brands. There are quite a few.