Has BB run its course?

greg66_tri_v2.0

I wonder whether admin might want to give some thought to whether Bottom Bracket has run its course, and should be deleted.

We all know it was set up as a holding area - a sort of temporary playpen, if you will - for the malcontents who didn't like Cake Stop being cleaned up and dragged into this century. I don't suppose anyone ever thought it would become a permanent forum though. It was surely always intended to be a temporary "patch" just to tide over the period of tantrum throwing.

That time is long past now, and one has to wonder what purpose does BB still serve? It seems to be nothing more than a forum for people who have nothing better to do than post in BB. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that it requires a disproportionately large amount of the moderators' time to regulate it as well, so it must now be time to consider whether it has run its course and should be deleted.

Of course, some of the die-hard BB'ers who rarely post elsewhere may not like this idea, but again, it's time for some growing up. If those posters can't adapt to the "regular" forums of BR, then perhaps it would be best for them, and for everyone else, if their accounts were deleted.

Hopefully this will engender some sensible and mature debate.

nicklouse

to answer the OP Q. not happening as there would be nowhere to put poor taste topics.

so they would then get deleted and we know how you guys hate that.

supersonic

Ok this is how I see it.

The Bottom bracket is not new - in essence it is the old Cake Stop renamed. An extra section was added for more general OT discussion and was christened Cake Stop, not the BB being created for a more risque area. All the old posts remain, except some that broke the new rules.

So this sort of area has always been here and is a carry over from the MBUK days.

I don't really see any 'more' spilling over into other areas because of this, it has always been like this. However if people do see it happening, please report it.

Personally I see more flaming and personal attacks in other areas, not the BB, and not by people who use the BB.

supersonic

It is obvious that one persons view of what trolling and humour entails on this forum is going to be very different from anothers. Interpretation and point of view is key here, and some members think that the higher level of what is allowed in the BB is being seen elsewhere.

But I have to say that the Commuting Chat area causes me more problems as an Admin than the rest of the forum put together, bar the classifieds. I get more PMs, reports and do more moderating here than anywhere else. The level of what I deem to be trolling, hypocrisy, flaming and down right rudeness is at times unbelievable and has little to do with other forum areas in my opinion.

I would ask people to report if they find posts above and beyond what they think is acceptable, regardless of the area it is in. Reports get flagged to all admin and moderators, and many are discussed in the Office privately. If action is deemed neccessary it will be taken. I can't and don't read every thread, so reactive moderation is neccesary.

I have however in the past seen some people who are not usually Commuting Chat members try and stir up trouble. I have dealt with them, and they took it on the chin. If it happens again, I will deal with it again. But this is only a small problem in my eyes compared to the vast reports I get elsewhere so I'd ask all to try and be a bit more cautious in general threads. I think that is as fair as I can be.

supersonic

Hello all, just got back (and enjoying my kebab ;-)).

Just thought I'd add that Future do not want any OT areas at all. None. No BB, CC, Cakestop, Commuting Chat, Hub, none. When we discussed this, I put in a case for them. I think we need them. If one goes, they all go.

I appreciate that this is not the exact argument put forward here, but is food for thought. I could cull them all at any time but don't want to do that. The way forward is to try and get on a bit more, and not to antagonise people. Easier said than done yes, and I am in a very hard place with this (as are the other Admin) - I want to move forward for all parties concerned.

It does seem that there are a few personal agendas that are clouding matters. Which will happen, I'm not that daft ;-).

So what are we going to do? Let's be constructive and see if we can compromise. As before, I think a bit of thought by all posters (and that includes myself and mods!) when posting is a start.

PS I don't work for Future. I don't get paid for this. I just like biking.

nicklouse

cleaned up to be relative to the question.

the other issues have little to do with it.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Woah - this is like being given back a day of your life. Like in the X Files... Weird.

Anyway, FWIW, I could live with Future's nuclear option. Might get a bit more done at work that way.

Think I'll just leave it there.

daviesee

I said it yesterday and I will repeat it again today.

A. No.

No antagonist post there.

seanoconn

Groundhog Day? Or shall we lock or delete this silly thread

arran77

Wow, that's some serious post censorship that happened there, why has all of the thread gone, I thought there was some very positive and useful debate going on :?

Never mind, to answer the OP's question, no it hasn't

/ thread.

pinno

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

I wonder whether admin might want to give some thought to whether Bottom Bracket has run its course, and should be deleted.

We all know it was set up as a holding area - a sort of temporary playpen, if you will - for the malcontents who didn't like Cake Stop being cleaned up and dragged into this century. I don't suppose anyone ever thought it would become a permanent forum though. It was surely always intended to be a temporary "patch" just to tide over the period of tantrum throwing.

As I recall, it was commuters that did most of the complainig since what we call 'Cummuntergate" and BB was created. The only people throwing tantrums were Commuters.

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

That time is long past now, and one has to wonder what purpose does BB still serve? It seems to be nothing more than a forum for people who have nothing better to do than post in BB. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that it requires a disproportionately large amount of the moderators' time to regulate it as well, so it must now be time to consider whether it has run its course and should be deleted.

Quite wrong and and an ill contrived slant. I presume you have looked at all the threads the BB members have posted and where and what they have posted.

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that it requires a disproportionately large amount of the moderators' time to regulate it as well...

Well, how wrong you have been.

Maybe it is actually time to delete commuting chat.

Gregg, TBH - your comments are so condascending it beggers belief. I read all the 9 pages before they were deleted. You act all Holier-than-thou and make wild presumptions and accusations.
You make presumptions about the character and nature of the BB'ers.
You presumed (very wrongly) that we need a lot of moderation.
You presume we do not actually post anything useful anywhere else on the forum.
Its is not a petri dish of bacterium like you suggest and some of the debate in Cake Stop recently has been very interesting - just trawl through it before making up stuff.
So many of you lot (commuters) have no sense of humour and get tetchy over the slightest thing.

Perhaps, it is the collective protestations of the commuters that have made you a target for trolling and jibes. Perhaps, if you took it on the chin as a bit of fun instead of jumping up and down a lot and whingeing in the proper and correct elitist clique style, you would no longer be a target and bear the brunt of some seriously strong resentment.

Contrary to popular Commutism theology, BB is hardly the 'dark side'. If the BR forums were condensed into a few 'mainstream' forums, how dull do you think would the tapestry of this website would become ?
BTW: I may not agree with you but you have the right to say it.

MODS: Many diehard forumites (Aggieboy, Cleat Eastwood etc etc) have dissapeared because they have been dismayed by the over modding of this site. Any further over-administration will only serve to drive many more away.
If the 'Future' owners want to clean up the site and get rid of off topic areas, where will it end? BR is by far the best cycling forum out there - it has something for everybody. That appeal will be lost if 'Future' decide to start hacking away at the forum. It will create opportunity for other forums and damage its marketing value.

I personally, am quite happy to concede and I am sure other BB'ers and Cake Stoppers, Crudcatchers etc are too - We won't bother with them as long as they don't bother with us.

greg66_tri_v2.0

pinarello001 wrote:

I personally, am quite happy to concede and I am sure other BB'ers and Cake Stoppers, Crudcatchers etc are too - We won't bother with them as long as they don't bother with us.

A perfectly acceptable compromise. See if you can herd your cats accordingly.

DonDaddyD

Hang on, the moderators deleted every single post in this thread except their own. Disgusting behaviour.

Supersonic, re the nuclear option.

You explained that to me previously - that Future didn't want off topic subjects and, I believe at least, I've toned down the contentious nature of my posts. I understand that while I can have fun here I have a responsiblity to the forums, which is realised through my conduct and behaviour.

I think that should be put to the frequent users of Bottom Bracket, and in the event that they cannot or refuse to understand and continue to venture out into other sections of the forums bringing their 'Bottom Bracket attitudes, culture and churlish behaviour - complete with egging each other on', then it should be closed down as it is a breeding ground for trolls.

If they keep that type of thing within that section then I have no issue.

DonDaddyD

And this is what I mean about Bottom Bracket being a breeding ground for trolls:

viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12934419&start=160

What that thread does is allow a group of people to identify where they can cause trouble on other parts of the forum.

From page 7 onwards the posts in relation to Greg and I are directly offensive - I nor Greg have not personally named or directly insulted a single person - the thread itself serves no further purpose and allows frequent users of that section to flame members and other parts of the board.

Because only a small portion of the website uses Bottom Bracket its created a herd mentality where this behaviour becomes the norm and they carry it to other sections of the website.

Also how can this be allowed: viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12943872

Yossie

As an aside, how come the BB'ers are being lambasted by the Communters yet we are the only ones who actually add anything useful to other aspects of the site - ie workshop, your bikes, cack stop, etc?

I don't see no communter workshop assistance going on (apart from how to fit mudguards)....

OK, BB can be off tangent sometimes, but that's what its designed for, n'est ce pas? A space to have a laugh, banter, wind each other up and get away from the drudgery and tat of everyday life.

This site is about riding bicycles, not geo global politics. Trust me, there are a lot shyttier, horrible more serious things going on out there to worry about than whether someone pokes fun at you or starts a thread about a newsreader.

if communters want to talk about riding to work everyday then that's cool - let cats be cats, but lets also allow a space for those of us who want to have a laugh and a virtual beer with mates get on with it.

If we start deleting BB and other aspects of the site that one/two people don't like why don't we just start burning books and carry on from there.

First they came for BB but I didn't say anything. Then they came for Cack Stop but I didn't say anything. Then they came for me and there was no one left to say anything ..........

If communters don't like what's in BB then don't go ion there. I don't go into the toilet cubicles after Big Ron has finished a Big Poo so why do they venture into unsavoury areas when they know better?

arran77

DonDaddyD wrote:

Hang on, the moderators deleted every single post in this thread except their own. Disgusting behaviour.

Supersonic, re the nuclear option.

You explained that to me previously - that Future didn't want off topic subjects and, I believe at least, I've toned down the contentious nature of my posts. I understand that while I can have fun here I have a responsiblity to the forums, which is realised through my conduct and behaviour.

I think that should be put to the frequent users of Bottom Bracket, and in the event that they cannot or refuse to understand and continue to venture out into other sections of the forums bringing their 'Bottom Bracket attitudes, culture and churlish behaviour - complete with egging each other on', then it should be closed down as it is a breeding ground for trolls.

If they keep that type of thing within that section then I have no issue.

Did you not learn anything yesterday :roll:

In summary what we learnt was;

a) You and Gregg suggested BB had run it's course and should go.
b) The Mods said this will not happen.
c) BB is not the worst offending area of the forum, other parts take up a lot more of the Mods time.
d) BB forum users do understand that there are different levels of behavior needed in different parts of the forum, it was non BB regulars who after 7 or so pages resorted to inappropriate language.
e) You and Gregg made yourselves look pretty daft while the BB'ers carried themselves very well and totally disproved the stereotypes that you have of us.

greg66_tri_v2.0

arran77 wrote:

the BB'ers carried themselves very well and totally disproved the stereotypes that you have of us.

You guys do sometimes make me laugh, I'll give you that.

That, and the fact that you still have a bunch of angry wasps jammed in your manginas is really brightening my otherwise rather grey Friday.

simonhead

I for one am proud to be a "refugee"

daviesee

DDD
I was in Commuter Chat before I ventured into Bottom Bracket.
Am I allowed to return or am I banished?

Rhetorical question as I know the answer and will ignore it accordingly.

Yossie

So we can't have a couple of harmless mocking threads but you sit there at your keyboards and start discussions like this:

viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12943861

Come on mods, if bringing up tragic events such as these for "discussion" on a bicycle forum is deemed fine and upstanding behaviour then I'm a banana.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Yossie wrote:

So we can't have a couple of harmless mocking threads but you sit there at your keyboards and start discussions like this:

viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12943861

Come on mods, if bringing up tragic events such as these for "discussion" on a bicycle forum is deemed fine and upstanding behaviour then I'm a banana.

What a strange example to choose.

seanoconn

DonDaddyD wrote:

And this is what I mean about Bottom Bracket being a breeding ground for trolls:

viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12934419&start=160

What that thread does is allow a group of people to identify where they can cause trouble on other parts of the forum.

From page 7 onwards the posts in relation to Greg and I are directly offensive - I nor Greg have not personally named or directly insulted a single person - the thread itself serves no further purpose and allows frequent users of that section to flame members and other parts of the board.

Because only a small portion of the website uses Bottom Bracket its created a herd mentality where this behaviour becomes the norm and they carry it to other sections of the website.

Also how can this be allowed: viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12943872

What you repeatedly fail to understand Don is that yourself and Greg have offended a large group of people by suggesting in the most condescending and arrogant fashion, they they are not fit to mix with other people!

There have been no reported posts to prove your point and apart from your own opinion, there is unsurprisingly no evidence that BB has a detrimental effect on the forum.

What these last two days have highlighted, is that Commuting is unfortunately a breeding ground for elitism and predjudice which needs to be closely monitored.

arran77

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

arran77 wrote:

the BB'ers carried themselves very well and totally disproved the stereotypes that you have of us.

You guys do sometimes make me laugh, I'll give you that.

That, and the fact that you still have a bunch of angry wasps jammed in your manginas is really brightening my otherwise rather grey Friday.

Well we did, we weren't the one's to lower the tone of this thread with bad language because we realise that this is not an appropriate place for that :roll:

Yet again you resort to personal attacks which just says it all as to the sort of person you are :roll:

Who was it who got this thread going again at 12.16 this morning? Oh yes, YOU :roll:

You said 'Think I'll just leave it there' but you haven't, let it go dude, it's over :roll:

mrfpb

MODS: Why was this thread reopened. You locked it last night (wisely) deleted all comments (160+ when I last looked) apart from the OP and five mod comment - that seemed way over the top considering there was a reasonable level of debate within most of the posts. But then you reopened it. Why? Now people will just regurgitate the same arguments and possibly the same insults as last night.

croptonboy

seanoconn wrote:

What these last two days have highlighted, is that Commuting is unfortunately a breeding ground for elitism and predjudice which needs to be closely monitored.

Whilst I strongly disagree with Greg & Don's view that if members don't meet their own approval, then sweeping action needs to be taken (deleting BB) I feel you are also tarring people with the same brush. Surely they don't speak for the whole Commuting community, just like everyone who posts in BB isn't fit to use the rest of the forum?

Yossie

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Yossie wrote:

So we can't have a couple of harmless mocking threads but you sit there at your keyboards and start discussions like this:

viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12943861

Come on mods, if bringing up tragic events such as these for "discussion" on a bicycle forum is deemed fine and upstanding behaviour then I'm a banana.

What a strange example to choose.

Its not a strange example to choose - it was the first one at the top of the page this morning.

I'm sorry, but you do seem a bit blinkered to the faults within your own home .......

BBers are sort of semi self policing (norks, yes, mocking, yes, but no discussions re that picked out, no racism, anti - Semitism, etc) - it seems that communters hide under a bushel of self sanctified respectability but have posts about, well, such as the above example and think its all ok.

seanoconn

mrfpb wrote:

MODS: Why was this thread reopened. You locked it last night (wisely) deleted all comments (160+ when I last looked) apart from the OP and five mod comment - that seemed way over the top considering there was a reasonable level of debate within most of the posts. But then you reopened it. Why? Now people will just regurgitate the same arguments and possibly the same insults as last night.

+ 1

It's just being used as a platform for demented ranting

greg66_tri_v2.0

arran77 wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

arran77 wrote:

the BB'ers carried themselves very well and totally disproved the stereotypes that you have of us.

You guys do sometimes make me laugh, I'll give you that.

That, and the fact that you still have a bunch of angry wasps jammed in your manginas is really brightening my otherwise rather grey Friday.

Well we did, we weren't the one's to lower the tone of this thread with bad language because we realise that this is not an appropriate place for that :roll:

Yet again you resort to personal attacks which just says it all as to the sort of person you are :roll:

Who was it who got this thread going again at 12.16 this morning? Oh yes, YOU :roll:

You said 'Think I'll just leave it there' but you haven't, let it go dude, it's over :roll:

And now the sanctimony. Love it. Love the schizo switch between the two even more. Keep it up!

seanoconn

Croptonboy wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

What these last two days have highlighted, is that Commuting is unfortunately a breeding ground for elitism and predjudice which needs to be closely monitored.

Whilst I strongly disagree with Greg & Don's view that if members don't meet their own approval, then sweeping action needs to be taken (deleting BB) I feel you are also tarring people with the same brush. Surely they don't speak for the whole Commuting community, just like everyone who posts in BB isn't fit to use the rest of the forum?

Apologies, quite right. I should have said a minority.

seanoconn

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

arran77 wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

arran77 wrote:

the BB'ers carried themselves very well and totally disproved the stereotypes that you have of us.

You guys do sometimes make me laugh, I'll give you that.

That, and the fact that you still have a bunch of angry wasps jammed in your manginas is really brightening my otherwise rather grey Friday.

Well we did, we weren't the one's to lower the tone of this thread with bad language because we realise that this is not an appropriate place for that :roll:

Yet again you resort to personal attacks which just says it all as to the sort of person you are :roll:

Who was it who got this thread going again at 12.16 this morning? Oh yes, YOU :roll:

You said 'Think I'll just leave it there' but you haven't, let it go dude, it's over :roll:

And now the sanctimony. Love it. Love the schizo switch between the two even more. Keep it up!

^ degenerating the thread once again ^

Apart from maybe one person, I think all would agree that this thread has run it's course and is either locked or deleted.

Yossie

DonDaddyD wrote:

I come here less now that their here. Rather not mix with them over there unless I absolutely have to. We should have a sign:

No Cake Stop
No Bottom Bracket
AND
No Dogs.

You seem to have missed out a few racial groups, a few religious groups and maybe some nationalities as well.

Come on Mods, get it sorted.