Post exercise nutrition

greg66_tri_v2.0

rjsterry wrote:

Palatability at a guess. But seriously, what are supposed to be the benefits of ingesting the protein, etc. that you need via a manufactured powder, as opposed to through carefully chosen 'real food'?

That's part of it - I CBA to carefully choose my post work out snackette. With this stuff, I mix it before I start, wack it in the fridge, and when I'm done I glug it straight down. After 6 hours on a turbo, what would you want in a hurry, straightaway - a vaguely strawberry tasting, vaguely milkshake like cold drink, or half a tin of tuna?

Another part of it is that the stuff I use, and most of the others, I'd imagine, claim to have the "right" branch chain amino acids in the "right" quantities. Whether that makes a difference, I don't know, or much care, but I wouldn't really know how to work out what BCCAs are in tuna and in what amounts.

Besides, after the stuff I was doing, I went into emergency eating mode. My slug of protein drink, then 3/4 of a tub of Haagen Dazs, then some more water, and then start rooting around for some proper food.

vermin

rjsterry wrote:

No-one's suggesting you need to eat a large steak. Half a tin of tuna contains roughly the same protein as 70g of powder, but I can see the convenience angle. That said, a bag of almonds on your desk is pretty convenient too - that's if I can stop myself from scoffing the lot before lunch.

No dolphins are harmed in the production of Maximuscle.

rjsterry

I dunno, I think I would plump for the tuna, but I can barely stomach 'non-recovery' milkshake.

For your IM training, I can definitely see that convenience really is an issue after however many miles of run/swim/ride, but I'm surprised that vermin seems to suggest that recovery nutrition is something he considers for daily commuting as well.

Wrath Rob

Interesting comments on this thread. First up: Why do you want a recovery meal (not I've not said a drink)? The reason is to help your body recovery more quickly from the exercise so that you can exercise again more quickly. Pro's are either training or racing again the next day so they need to recover as quickly as possible. They also usually have long transfers to the hotel so they therefore need a recovery product ahead of a proper meal so that their bodies can start repairing ASAP.

For most of us, we don't have long transfers to a proper meal so these can be made redundant. For example I used to use a protein shake post exercise but after realising that I was eating a meal within 30 mins to 1 hour of my ride finishing anyway, I've generally binned them and suffered no noticeable ability to recover and train again the next day. As long as you can find some food with good quality protein and carbs to eat within 1 hour of exercise, you don't need to start purchasing specific recovery products. Of course, you might not be lucky enough to have access to something like this in which case you might want to go down this route.

Regarding milk, the statement that "milk is a great recovery drink" is unfortunately complete BS. Yes, milk does have lots of protein in it but its split into 2 types: Caseins and Whey. Caseins form around 80% of the protein in milk, which sounds great until you understand that they are the slowest digesting proteins and in fact help slow down general digestion so anything else you take with them such as a protein powder will therefore only be absorbed slowly, the opposite of what you want. They take over an hour to appear in your blood stream and up to 8 hours to digest. This is why you have a glass of warm milk before going to bed, it helps bring on that post meal sleepy feeling.

Whey, on the other hand, is a very fast digesting protein, appearing in your blood around 20 minutes after being consumed and being fully digested within a couple of hours. Unfortunately the Casein in milk gets in the way and stops this happening. Most quality protein supplements therefore use whey-isolate protein which neatly overcomes this problem.

So in summary, only use a recovery product if you won't be eating something with protein and carbs in it within an hour of exercise and you need to recover for the next day. And don't use milk as a recovery drink.

vermin

rjsterry wrote:

surprised that vermin seems to suggest that recovery nutrition is something he considers for daily commuting as well.

I have a hugely inefficient metabolism - always run hot, ride in the snow wearing a summer s/s jersey with a waterproof shell, insist on open windows in mid-winter, etc. As a result, I burn a lot of calories, but find that eating alone (or with company if I'm lucky) is not enough to keep up with the commuting demand. Perhaps it would be possible with more care, but I've found that eating heaps of varied food and supplementing that with Maximuscle Progain Extreme morning and night is just enough to maintain my weight and energise my commutes. Without it, I struggle with the evening ride and I lose weight very rapidly. At over 6ft and under 68kg, that's not something I particularly want to do.

the_fuggler

It's either a pint or a chocolate nesquik depending on the time of day. You can tell how seriously I take cycling...

kajjal

A large curry and a few pints of Cobra

rjsterry

vermin wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

surprised that vermin seems to suggest that recovery nutrition is something he considers for daily commuting as well.

I have a hugely inefficient metabolism - always run hot, ride in the snow wearing a summer s/s jersey with a waterproof shell, insist on open windows in mid-winter, etc. As a result, I burn a lot of calories, but find that eating alone (or with company if I'm lucky) is not enough to keep up with the commuting demand. Perhaps it would be possible with more care, but I've found that eating heaps of varied food and supplementing that with Maximuscle Progain Extreme morning and night is just enough to maintain my weight and energise my commutes. Without it, I struggle with the evening ride and I lose weight very rapidly. At over 6ft and under 68kg, that's not something I particularly want to do.

:shock: blimey, and I thought I was scrawny (5'9", 64kg). After a couple of years on the longer commutes(15-16miles each way), I've noticed that I can make do with a little less - one less slice of toast at breakfast, slightly smaller dinner - which is nice. That said, the legs are still sore every Friday, so I maybe I do need to add a bit more protein in the evenings.

mrc1

As wrath rob said - whey protein which is found in recovery drinks is extremely quickly digested so the idea is that it gets into your bloodstream while the blood is still circulating at a higher rate through the muscles used during exercise - enabling them to be repaired. The problem with meat based sources is that they digest much more slowly and therefore you miss that window of opportunity in the 30 mins post exercise.

However, unless you are doing lots of high intensity work on back to back days (ie where fast recovery is required ie something like a Raid or a multiday race) then the shakes are a costly thing to use without much of a real world noticeable benefit.

Creatine is an interesting one as countless studies have shown it to be of little use to an endurance athlete (and can be counter productive as if used as recommended it will cause weight gain) so I wouldnt generally recommend using it if you are a pure endurance guy (though of course if you have other goals then it can be very useful). Glutamine is a better bet to look out for in recovery terms.

davmaggs

vermin wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

Chocolate milk was looked at by one of the sports science unversities and came out very well. Probably too cheap to be taken seriously by those that want to buy powders with pseudo-science ingredients.

Pseudo-science? Protein and Creatine? You're trolling, right?

See all the comments above this one for people regurgitating stuff they've 'learned', then bounce over to some sites with sports science studies (not magazine or manufacturer quoted ones) and compare, then account for who here really is in the elite category and therefore needing this stuff to gain an edge of tiny percentages even if there really is one.

Saying that if it makes you happy and you have the money then spend away.

awavey

davmaggs wrote:

vermin wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

Chocolate milk was looked at by one of the sports science unversities and came out very well. Probably too cheap to be taken seriously by those that want to buy powders with pseudo-science ingredients.

Pseudo-science? Protein and Creatine? You're trolling, right?

See all the comments above this one for people regurgitating stuff they've 'learned', then bounce over to some sites with sports science studies (not magazine or manufacturer quoted ones) and compare, then account for who here really is in the elite category and therefore needing this stuff to gain an edge of tiny percentages even if there really is one.

Saying that if it makes you happy and you have the money then spend away.

also maybe people are overthinking it, we do get blasted with all those isotonic energy recovery drink ads all the time, it does I think make people assume every small gain and diet or recovery is all based around sports science now and naturally weve developed all the cleverness into a conveniant powder and it couldnt possibly be just as simply as mixing a cherry smoothie up from ingredients you keep in your fridge...which cured me of the post exercise hungerthon and aches, and also tastes jolly nice too.

actually what do people use their fridges for, if they dont keep food or milk in them :?

okgo

For me a post ride drink is whey protein , with water and some honey for high GI carbs. That's all you need.

Every day after commute for breakfast I have the above with some oats mixed in.

menthel

Made up a smoothie this morning for post PT (heavy weights repeats this morning) with unflavoured whey, 200mls of water and and some frozen berries. Almost made ice cream and it was rather thick but actually tasted quite nice! Have ordered a bigger bag after the sample and will see how it goes. Should I be adding some carbs? I am quite happy as it is but some may help. How about some oats? May make it more of a breakfast and stop me eating flapjack when I get to work.

okgo

High GI carbs post exercise to aid recovery, not low gi, like oats.

menthel

okgo wrote:

High GI carbs post exercise to aid recovery, not low gi, like oats.

A squirt of honey then?

okgo

Yep

menthel

Any reason not to add a handful of oats as well? Make it a complete meal?

sketchley

Chips and Beer.....

Gallywomack

The idea of simple, high-GI carbs is a) simply as a source of glucose, to replenish the glycogen in the muscle cells that has been depleted by exercise, and b) to cause a rise in insulin, which in this post-workout period helps transport this glucose around the body, without the usual problems (ie fat gain and in the longer term, potentially type 2 diabetes) associated with high insulin levels. The ultimate aim of all this is to ensure that protein synthesis and muscle repair/growth can take place as quickly and effectively as possible.

I'm not sure how much it would really matter, but the fibre in the oats might slow the absorption of the glucose in your PWO drink, which would obviously have some effect on how quickly it could be delivered to your muscle cells, and would possibly reduce the insulin 'spiking' effect. On the other hand, your PWO drink would still contain all the stuff the body requires for repair and growth, so even if not quite optimal, it's still worth having especially if it helps you fit your training in with your daily schedule.

I suppose ideally, the PWO drink with quick release carbs only, then have the oats say an hour later. It might sound horrible but I find pre-made porridge is actually fine and lasts a long time in the fridge. IN the past I've made it up in batches and brought a portion in with me each day.

menthel

Gallywomack wrote:

The idea of simple, high-GI carbs is a) simply as a source of glucose, to replenish the glycogen in the muscle cells that has been depleted by exercise, and b) to cause a rise in insulin, which in this post-workout period helps transport this glucose around the body, without the usual problems (ie fat gain and in the longer term, potentially type 2 diabetes) associated with high insulin levels. The ultimate aim of all this is to ensure that protein synthesis and muscle repair/growth can take place as quickly and effectively as possible.

I'm not sure how much it would really matter, but the fibre in the oats might slow the absorption of the glucose in your PWO drink, which would obviously have some effect on how quickly it could be delivered to your muscle cells, and would possibly reduce the insulin 'spiking' effect. On the other hand, your PWO drink would still contain all the stuff the body requires for repair and growth, so even if not quite optimal, it's still worth having especially if it helps you fit your training in with your daily schedule.

I suppose ideally, the PWO drink with quick release carbs only, then have the oats say an hour later. It might sound horrible but I find pre-made porridge is actually fine and lasts a long time in the fridge. IN the past I've made it up in batches and brought a portion in with me each day.

Thanks. I like oats a lot but my tendancy at present is to get them from Flapjacks when I get to work. Not the most healthy way I am sure. I will have a look into how I can alter the ways of doing it.

I rather enjoyed the whey smoothie though, it was rather creamy and tasty.

menthel

Sketchley wrote:

Chips and Beer.....

Not at 8 in the morning. I am not a stuent any more!

willy b

Interesting article about milk from BR: http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... ilk-25698/

I tend to have a pint of milk (skimmed) with some Nesquick added for flavour.

tilt

rjsterry wrote:

No-one's suggesting you need to eat a large steak. Half a tin of tuna contains roughly the same protein as 70g of powder, but I can see the convenience angle. That said, a bag of almonds on your desk is pretty convenient too - that's if I can stop myself from scoffing the lot before lunch.

70g of myprotein whey isolate gives you 64.4g of protein

Tinned tuna has 27g of protein per 100g

Not sure I've ever come across a half kilo tin of tuna before...

menthel

willy b wrote:

Interesting article about milk from BR: http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... ilk-25698/

I tend to have a pint of milk (skimmed) with some Nesquick added for flavour.

Well the comments section was full of raving loonies but then there is a big problem with the article anyway once you know the research sponsor. I drink milk anyway so that doesn't really bother me!

rjsterry

tilt wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

No-one's suggesting you need to eat a large steak. Half a tin of tuna contains roughly the same protein as 70g of powder, but I can see the convenience angle. That said, a bag of almonds on your desk is pretty convenient too - that's if I can stop myself from scoffing the lot before lunch.

70g of myprotein whey isolate gives you 64.4g of protein

Tinned tuna has 27g of protein per 100g

Not sure I've ever come across a half kilo tin of tuna before...

From MyProtein's own website

For the Hurricane XS product (on which my comment is based)

Per 70g:
Energy: 901.8kJ
Energy: 219.3cal
Protein (as-is): 29.6g
Carbohydrates: 20.3g
Fat: 2.5g

And 64g of protein takes you ~20% over the RDA in one go.

okgo

Well you're not basing it on an actual whey protein powder rather it's some other product that has a mix of all sorts, sounds like a bulking powder even. Impact whey or the one the other chap listed is very little wastage. And obviously RDA is a waste of time when talking about people that do more than the 'RDA' of exercise. Much the same as I will usually eat far more than 2500 calls per day for the same reasons.

rjsterry

At the risk of dragging this out even more, that was just one of the products that someone else - dhope, IIRC - mentioned. I seem to recall it claimed to be an "all in one" as you suggest.

pblakeney

According to Graeme Obree - Sardines on toast.

menthel

PBlakeney wrote:

According to Graeme Obree - Sardines on toast.

Damn, there is no vomiting smilie. Sardines make me want to puke.

gabriel959

Barbequed sardines are something else, really. I miss them.