Holding close to 300W for 12 hours

bahzob

I plan on doing a good 12 hour next year and have been asking around for power files from others who have done similar.

I have got quite a few of these and received some helpful advice along the way so thanks for that.

Included in these was one of the most amazing rides I have ever seen and I've seen a lot.



This chap averaged a stunning 293W for 12 solid hours and burned 12500 calories in the process. This makes even the hardest days in a pro race pale by comparison, it's around the equivalent of doing the hardest stage 2-3 times non-stop. (Event was not a TT and ride was on a normal road bike)

The training approach for this ride was also very interesting, the rider concerned said
"I was in great shape back then. My FTP was probably set too low for that file as I didn't test it during that period. The secret to a good 12h is pre-race nutrition. I did a 14 day no carb diet riding 3-8 hours per day eating just protein. I definitely got a training adaptation from this as the power I was putting out increased substantially over the 14 days. I then took 2.5 days off the bike before the race and binged on high GI carbs. My legs blew up like balloons full of glycogen! I put on several kg's in those 2.5 days due to all the water associated with glycogen (3g water per 1g gylcogen). However, during the race this pretty much lasted me about 8h, after which I was totally depleted and relied predominately on fat metabolism to get me through. You can see that from the power file."

This is a pretty extreme version of "carb loading" aka "super compensation". I have not heard/seen much about this here or other where, maybe because it's specifically aimed at really long distance events. But still it seems to have worked. It's also interesting to see how an already very good rider noticed increased power as a result from doing 2 weeks on a no-carb diet.

I'd be interested if others have similar experience to this.

markwb79

bahzob wrote:

I plan on doing a good 12 hour next year and have been asking around for power files from others who have done similar.

I have got quite a few of these and received some helpful advice along the way so thanks for that.

Included in these was one of the most amazing rides I have ever seen and I've seen a lot.



This chap averaged a stunning 293W for 12 solid hours and burned 12500 calories in the process. This makes even the hardest days in a pro race pale by comparison, it's around the equivalent of doing the hardest stage 2-3 times non-stop. (Event was not a TT and ride was on a normal road bike)

The training approach for this ride was also very interesting, the rider concerned said
"I was in great shape back then. My FTP was probably set too low for that file as I didn't test it during that period. The secret to a good 12h is pre-race nutrition. I did a 14 day no carb diet riding 3-8 hours per day eating just protein. I definitely got a training adaptation from this as the power I was putting out increased substantially over the 14 days. I then took 2.5 days off the bike before the race and binged on high GI carbs. My legs blew up like balloons full of glycogen! I put on several kg's in those 2.5 days due to all the water associated with glycogen (3g water per 1g gylcogen). However, during the race this pretty much lasted me about 8h, after which I was totally depleted and relied predominately on fat metabolism to get me through. You can see that from the power file."

This is a pretty extreme version of "carb loading" aka "super compensation". I have not heard/seen much about this here or other where, maybe because it's specifically aimed at really long distance events. But still it seems to have worked. It's also interesting to see how an already very good rider noticed increased power as a result from doing 2 weeks on a no-carb diet.

I'd be interested if others have similar experience to this.

Really amazing.

Also fascinated by the no carbs for 14 days bit.

jibberjim

We don't know his weight, in group riding 37.9kph for 300watts is pretty poor! given that some of the Le Mans 24 hour data I've seen has 35kph on 170watts. Now we don't know the route, or course etc. but I'd be sceptical of the headline figures.

okgo

Agree with Jim on the headline figs, you're telling me someone does 300w for 12 hours and 5 mins over 450w and 60 mins at 360w within that, not to mention the 800w for 20 secs, why on earth would you do 800w for 20 secs in a 12 hour ride?

Something more to this I would imagine...

jibberjim

okgo wrote:

Agree with Jim on the headline figs, you're telling me someone does 300w for 12 hours and 5 mins over 450w and 60 mins at 360w within that, not to mention the 800w for 20 secs, why on earth would you do 800w for 20 secs in a 12 hour ride?

Because it's a mass start road race... That's completely expected as you do still need to make breaks etc.

okgo

Where dose it say its a mass start RR? I must be being blind..

Also what event is that?

mattclinton

I'm not sure that the power meter is reading correctly!

For a start you can't ride above threshold as that suggests for 12hrs!

jibberjim

mattclinton wrote:

For a start you can't ride above threshold as that suggests for 12hrs!

He freely admits the FTP was not set accurately in WKO.

We don't know what race it was, just that it was a mass start, and with mixture of solo's and multiple member teams.

bahzob

madasahattersley wrote:

Max HR 254?
Max Cad 224?
Avg. Norm. >330?

Not sure about this file, though I do believe 293 for 12 hours is possible

I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the power data. It was originally posted in the Wattage forum and you can be reasonably sure that if it was fishy then the folks there would point it out. I don't know the rider concerned personally but get the impression he is a well respected and reputable source.

The spikes you refer to are quite normal and occur in many files. They are simply down to the hardware/software and have no effect on any overall analysis which will be based on averages, not peaks.

Similarly regards speed, the file comes from a 12 hour race on a normal road bike.

Anyway speed is not the prime concern nor the reason why I posted this file.

Apart from the quite stunning power average the really interesting things are
- The burn of 12500 calories in 12 hours is huge.
- The training method is very focussed on the demands of this event and of interest to those wanting to do similar (including long sportives).
- Even for those not planning to do such events the observation that power was sustained and perhaps even increased during the 2 week "fast" phase is interesting. It's consistent with this http://www.leangains.com/2010/05/fasted-training-boosts-endurance-and.html. At a minimum I would have thought this merits further investigation the more so because it seems to imply that some standard training advice like "eat before exercise" and "eat as soon as possible after an exercise session" may not be universal truths, indeed in some cases may be counter productive.

All this is even more relevant as the winter approaches because it's the ideal time to try something different like this and see how it works at an individual level.

dawebbo

300w ~ 1000 cals/hour. Surely you will have already observed this looking at your own power data? Or could simply work it out on the back of an envelope.

Tom Dean

Is the number in brackets next to TSS the IF?

SBezza

Tom Dean wrote:

Is the number in brackets next to TSS the IF?

Yes it is, and both the TSS and the IF will be out if the FTP is not set correctly.

Tom Dean

What sort of IF is feasible for 12hrs?

bahzob

dawebbo wrote:

300w ~ 1000 cals/hour. Surely you will have already observed this looking at your own power data? Or could simply work it out on the back of an envelope.

Not sure what your point is.

Maintaining this level of cals/hour for many hours is a major challenge to the point where it becomes a limiter.

At normal glycogen levels/fat burning levels you would need to take on around 160g of carb per hour every hour to achieve this which is next to impossible.

That's why the training approach is so interesting. It seems to reduce the carbs/hour needed by a combination of upping initial glycogen and increasing the contribution from fat. Both are talked about often but this is the best example I have seen of it actually being put into practice.

bahzob

Tom Dean wrote:

What sort of IF is feasible for 12hrs?

As a very rough guesstimate I'd say around 65%-75% but it will vary hugely by individual and ofc whether or not you are training specifically for the event as chap in the OP was.

There are some examples of actual wattages here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/wattage/f97q_au6Zgw though many don't include FTP.

bahzob

bahzob wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

What sort of IF is feasible for 12hrs?

As a very rough guesstimate I'd say around 65%-75% but it will vary hugely by individual and ofc whether or not you are training specifically for the event as chap in the OP was.

Indeed if you are training specifically for the event the IF may be inflated not just because you can keep power up for longer but also because your threshold power divisor may be less (because you are not doing workouts to improve threshold and/or the quality of threshold workouts is affected). Like to hear the opinion/experience of others re this, especially since the chap in the OP didn't seem to find this.

There are some examples of actual wattages here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/wattage/f97q_au6Zgw though many don't include FTP.

Mikey23

Pretty patterns...