Old steel bikes - over-rated...

secretsam

Rolf F wrote:

But not more than the cost of a normal wheel surely? A standard 130mm hub will fit with a reduced nds spacer. You'd just dish it slightly differently.

That's what they're doing. I'm just fed up chucking good money at it. Should have just bought a new frame from Thorn, Spa, etc.

Or even gone overboard and gone to Mercian, Argos, Roberts... who am I kidding?

supersonic

How a frame 'rides' is down to construction - all the steels available have virtually the same modulus (stiffness) whether that be mild steel, 501 or 953. Of course the tube diameters and thickness can be different, the stronger steels allowing thinner tubing, but even then, some cold drawn 4130 cromo tubes can be remarkably svelte. Then we have joining methods.

And this goes for alu and carbon - a thin walled small gauge tubed alu frame can flex more than a steel frame, it aint just the material. Then we have high frequency vibration absorption.

And let us not forget the views of the late, great and sadly missed Sheldon Brown:

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-comfort.html

pinno

Weren't those steel frames gorgeous though? I remember oggling at a burgundy Dave Lloyd frame with 3/4 chrome rear triangle and chrome forks, long point chrome lugs. It cost the bloke £550 in 1991. Here's a Dave Lloyd:



My Battaglin was powder coated Columbus SL with the Battaglin logo deeply etched into the fork crown:





If there is any reason to buy a steel frame, the aesthetics of a Colnago Master Piu or the lug work on a Tomassini Tecno is stunning.

bigjim

That Raleigh Sprint for sale was not a cheap bike in its day. They ride beautifully. very smooth and silent. Much better,IMO, than the modern Ali framed bikes. I've sold my Ali framed bikes and now only ride steel. I've rode new carbon bikes and not particularly impressed. they are nice and light and responsive but for me there is something. I don't know what it is...
I have had a few Raleigh Sprints. I sold this one two years ago on e-bay for £150 and the new owner was delighted.

I was sorry I sold it and bought another, mint condition, later 1991 model.
I currently ride it on club runs and find it just as good as any of the recent bikes.

rolf_f

SecretSam wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

But not more than the cost of a normal wheel surely? A standard 130mm hub will fit with a reduced nds spacer. You'd just dish it slightly differently.

That's what they're doing. I'm just fed up chucking good money at it. Should have just bought a new frame from Thorn, Spa, etc.

Or even gone overboard and gone to Mercian, Argos, Roberts... who am I kidding?

You see, you keep losing the plot! Either spend money and enjoy it or leave the moths in your wallet alone. You chucked bad (rather than good) money at your frame (the silly shifters, headset etc) and your solution to your error would be to buy a new frame which would cost much more and behave just the same as the one you've already got! :P

The old bikes I've renovated have usually cost no more than cables, brake pads and tyres plus lots of tlc. You rarely need to replace things and if you do it won't be for economic reasons; in which case you shouldn't blame the bike when it gets expensive!

Now stop moaning, finish the bike, ride it and love it. Or sell it to me for £20.

Velonutter

I totally renovated my Geoffrey Butler Track Bike from 1976 and took it up the road for a quick spin 2 or 3 years ago, no brakes I know a bit silly but within a few hundred feet I couldn't believe how smooth steel rode as I had forgotten from my steel bikes in the 70's.

I decided then that I would look out for a Colnago Master and found a 1991 one in Saroni red in Italy, beautiful object of desire, I have done a loads of 70+ miles this year on it and love it to pieces, it is just so comfortable.

Then I saw on Fleabay a rare 2002ish Colnago Master with carbon forks and Carbon rear stays, only ridden it three times, but it does ride different, still very smooth but a little stiffer, perfect as a winter bike, but I know which I prefer...the Saroni.

I've also got a Geoffrey Butler Steel 531 frame to spray and finish, but I have no doubt that that will ride lovely as well.

Pross

SecretSam wrote:

Right.

The saga continues.

Have taken my old 531 to my LBS and they say that cold-setting the frame will just end up in it being damaged, apparently Bob Jackson gave this advice as well.

So in order for it to work with modern components, it's time to muck about with the rear wheel. So another £100. And a set of wheels which will be useless for anything else.

You know what? I wish I'd never bothered, and had just sold the damn thing and bought something modern.

Old steel? Over-rated.

All you need is a 10 speed cassette and a set of 10 speed Dura Ace downtube shifters. Remove the smallest sprocket from the cassette, block of the top gear selection on the rear mech and hey presto you have a 9 speed setup on an old 6/7 speed wheel. I assume you can do the same with a 10 speed STI lever if you aren't using downtube shifters.

Hoopdriver

Rolf F wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

But not more than the cost of a normal wheel surely? A standard 130mm hub will fit with a reduced nds spacer. You'd just dish it slightly differently.

That's what they're doing. I'm just fed up chucking good money at it. Should have just bought a new frame from Thorn, Spa, etc.

Or even gone overboard and gone to Mercian, Argos, Roberts... who am I kidding?

You see, you keep losing the plot! Either spend money and enjoy it or leave the moths in your wallet alone. You chucked bad (rather than good) money at your frame (the silly shifters, headset etc) and your solution to your error would be to buy a new frame which would cost much more and behave just the same as the one you've already got! :P

The old bikes I've renovated have usually cost no more than cables, brake pads and tyres plus lots of tlc. You rarely need to replace things and if you do it won't be for economic reasons; in which case you shouldn't blame the bike when it gets expensive!

Now stop moaning, finish the bike, ride it and love it. Or sell it to me for £20.

+1 .....except I'll bid £25

bigjim

Have taken my old 531 to my LBS and they say that cold-setting the frame will just end up in it being damaged, apparently Bob Jackson gave this advice as well.

First time I've heard that one. I've cold set three 531 bikes and not had any problems. My LBS does them all the time and the great late Sheldon Brown shows how its done.
Suprised at Bob jackson saying that.

rolf_f

Hoopdriver wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

But not more than the cost of a normal wheel surely? A standard 130mm hub will fit with a reduced nds spacer. You'd just dish it slightly differently.

That's what they're doing. I'm just fed up chucking good money at it. Should have just bought a new frame from Thorn, Spa, etc.

Or even gone overboard and gone to Mercian, Argos, Roberts... who am I kidding?

You see, you keep losing the plot! Either spend money and enjoy it or leave the moths in your wallet alone. You chucked bad (rather than good) money at your frame (the silly shifters, headset etc) and your solution to your error would be to buy a new frame which would cost much more and behave just the same as the one you've already got! :P

The old bikes I've renovated have usually cost no more than cables, brake pads and tyres plus lots of tlc. You rarely need to replace things and if you do it won't be for economic reasons; in which case you shouldn't blame the bike when it gets expensive!

Now stop moaning, finish the bike, ride it and love it. Or sell it to me for £20.

+1 .....except I'll bid £25

Excuse me - I'm the one pulling the fast one on Secret Sam; you lay off and take advantage of someone else!

Hoopdriver

Rolf F wrote:

Hoopdriver wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

But not more than the cost of a normal wheel surely? A standard 130mm hub will fit with a reduced nds spacer. You'd just dish it slightly differently.

That's what they're doing. I'm just fed up chucking good money at it. Should have just bought a new frame from Thorn, Spa, etc.

Or even gone overboard and gone to Mercian, Argos, Roberts... who am I kidding?

You see, you keep losing the plot! Either spend money and enjoy it or leave the moths in your wallet alone. You chucked bad (rather than good) money at your frame (the silly shifters, headset etc) and your solution to your error would be to buy a new frame which would cost much more and behave just the same as the one you've already got! :P

The old bikes I've renovated have usually cost no more than cables, brake pads and tyres plus lots of tlc. You rarely need to replace things and if you do it won't be for economic reasons; in which case you shouldn't blame the bike when it gets expensive!

Now stop moaning, finish the bike, ride it and love it. Or sell it to me for £20.

+1 .....except I'll bid £25

Excuse me - I'm the one pulling the fast one on Secret Sam; you lay off and take advantage of someone else!

jongooligan

bigjim wrote:

First time I've heard that one. I've cold set three 531 bikes and not had any problems. My LBS does them all the time and the great late Sheldon Brown shows how its done.
Suprised at Bob jackson saying that.

I'm not. I'm just surprised they said anything at all. Did you go into the shop to get that advice? I've only managed to get through on the phone once, only to be giving the brush off. Don't bother emailing them; they never reply. Terrible firm to deal with these days.

secretsam

jongooligan wrote:

bigjim wrote:

First time I've heard that one. I've cold set three 531 bikes and not had any problems. My LBS does them all the time and the great late Sheldon Brown shows how its done.
Suprised at Bob jackson saying that.

I'm not. I'm just surprised they said anything at all. Did you go into the shop to get that advice? I've only managed to get through on the phone once, only to be giving the brush off. Don't bother emailing them; they never reply. Terrible firm to deal with these days.

It was the chap at Spirit who told me - he'd enquired about re-setting some Hetchins frames (!) for someone else

Shame to hear that they've gone downhill at Bob Jackson - they used to be so good