Old steel bikes - over-rated...
secretsam
Posts: 4,621
Unreal, have just seen some of the ads in the classifieds for old steel frames
People describing an old Raleigh with 501 main tubes as some sort of work of art
It's the 1980s equivalent of an Airlite 300 or something, FFS...
THE RULE IS: unless it's full 531/Columbus SL/etc (or better), it's just cheap steel and ergo nothing special
Why do people assume that all steel is good steel?
Discuss.
People describing an old Raleigh with 501 main tubes as some sort of work of art
It's the 1980s equivalent of an Airlite 300 or something, FFS...
THE RULE IS: unless it's full 531/Columbus SL/etc (or better), it's just cheap steel and ergo nothing special
Why do people assume that all steel is good steel?
Discuss.
It's just a hill. Get over it.
0
Posts
Simples.
vinyl sounds better than CDs,
paper books are a better read than ebooks,
my 1976 mini clubman (my first car, which I bought in 1982) was the best car I ever drove,
none of which are technically true, but are none-the-less definitely the case?
This sort of thing is pretty common on eBay. Helps lure in the hipsters looking for their next fixie conversion project I guess. Then again my latest road frame (RSP team issue 853, circa 1998) was an ex-singlespeed project that I "rescued" for a measly 40-odd quid.
David
Do they? What would you expect someone selling a 501 frame to say? "OK frame, quite nice but nothing special. Any money you put into it you won't get back" etc etc; truthful maybe but hardly encouraging to the bidders! Bigging up average frames (and, actually, there's nowt wrong with 501 or 531 main tubes frames) if you are selling them is common sense but you don't have to believe it. It gets a bit sillier when people try to big up Peugeot Carbolite frames......
Incidentally, a 501 framed bike (btw, all 501 frames are main tubes only as Reynolds never made 501 stays) are rather more than an 80s equivalent of an Airlite 300. 501 would be the cheapest quality frame in the range. Above it you'd only expect 531 main tubes and full 531 frames so they were certainly have been at the upper end of the range.
Sweeeeeeet - photos?
It's just a hill. Get over it.
The other is built in Reynolds 853, and makes me weep with joy a little when I ride it.
That one actually is true, as these days there's a seperate master for vinyl releases which is generally higher quality than that sold on CD or compressed into MP3s etc.
/offtopic
I've attached a not-very-good one (I can build bikes a lot better than I can photograph them!!). Although the frame was cheap, there were lots of hidden costs - travelling up to London to collect the thing, getting it powder coated, new stem (as I was reverting to a quill set-up), new decals/tape/bottle cages, etc., etc. Still cheaper than a new 853 frame though!
David
Ironically, given your stem choice, you went STI!!! I've kept D/T levers (although gone indexed) - which has honestly proved to be a PITA...
I too powder coated, locally, not the greatest finish but at least the frame is now covered against the elements...mine's 531, BTW
It's just a hill. Get over it.
Never had any problems with quill stems myself - Planet X were selling 3TTT Status ones NOS at a nice price and it fitted the bill. Almost all of the other components are the ones off the previous road frame; I do a fair few time trials on it as training for the CX season so it's not purely a retro piece built to look nice, hence the Ergo levers. My last bike (also steel) had a carbon fork/Ahead set up but found it a bit light at the front end and a twitchy ride hence the move back to a steel fork for stability; I could have just stuck a steel fork on the old bike but the RSP was too good a bargain to ignore. Thanks to modern tubing and TIG-welded construction there's no weight penalty; it may even be lighter than my previous machine.
David
Does a higher number (eg 583 vs 501) mean better quality steel?
Does this numbering system only apply to steel tubes?
What, specifically, does the number refer to?
ta
Good question
It was (and I may be mis-informed) a labelling system used by Reynolds, which in the case of seminal "531" referred to the ratios of metals in the tubing.
Subsequently, Reynolds expanded their range, with IIRC 753 being the next tubing - hyper expensive at the time, and a total 'mare to work with.
Generally, you're right - for Reynolds tubes, higher number = higher quality. Top of the tree now is 953, about which there are threads on the Road Bike pics forum...
Other manufacturers - Columbus, Tange, Ishiwata - tended not to use numerical hierarchies for their tubes (although Ishiwata had one called "0245", IIRC). Nowadays, it's mostly called "Cro-Mo" (generic) or the name. Makes include True Temper, Dedacciai (sp?), Tange, etc.
It's just a hill. Get over it.
I think the only problem with quill stems is ingress of water - which isn't a problem on my bikes as I don't leave them outside. Otherwise, they are great. You can adjust the height in seconds if your back suffers at all and, tbh, A-head stems look terrible! They have none of the elegance of a well sculpted quill!
Indexing was a thing before its time for DT shifters I think. Obviously essential for STi shifters, for DT shifters it just needlessly complicates things. There is something great about needing only to get the cable tension and limit screws set for perfect gear operation. Yesterday I converted my Raleigh Randonneur (Raleigh Lightweight Division - effectively much the same source as David Belchers frame) from 6 to 7 speed. This involved prising the rear dropouts apart to squeeze the rear wheel in and adjusting the limit screw so that the rear mech could reach the largest sprocket. That was it - nothing else to do. No expensive shifter purchasing, no messing with indexing. A five minute job!
My bike usually lives in the kitchen so no rain issues there
David
Thanks for that - I'm now a couple of degrees wiser!
It was a Ribble (Dedaccai??) 653 originally with Ultegra 600 group and Mach 2CD rims, Cinelli bars stem and seat post and Rolls saddle. I have replaced the front mech to an old Campag Chorus I had lying around after breaking the original in a crash and I have a Veloce chainset after damaging the original trying to remove seized bolts. I also switched the rear mech to a Tiagra and front changers to get 9 speed with indexing. Everything else is original.
Here it is in its first year before the respray (purple was all the rage in about '94) on my way to a 25 mile PB that still stands despite the oversize jersey!
The saga continues.
Have taken my old 531 to my LBS and they say that cold-setting the frame will just end up in it being damaged, apparently Bob Jackson gave this advice as well.
So in order for it to work with modern components, it's time to muck about with the rear wheel. So another £100. And a set of wheels which will be useless for anything else.
You know what? I wish I'd never bothered, and had just sold the damn thing and bought something modern.
Old steel? Over-rated.
It's just a hill. Get over it.
Just getting decent gear ratios saw nearly £100 buying assorted NOS cassettes. Local shop was happy to build wheels for 126mm but the costs start mounting.
It does need a respray too.
Thing is, it's a serviceable and decent bike. I could ride it as is without spending another penny on it beyond consumables but it would only last a year or two. Alternatively, I could make it as good as possible but it costs way more than makes economical sense. It is something I will maybe do when I have spare cash.
Game, set and match.
I hereby apply to join the far-from-exclusive-club of "Idiots who've spent a lot of money needlessly pursuing their long-lost cycling youth"
It's just a hill. Get over it.
I converted my Raleigh Randonneur from 6 to 7 speed. It involved easing the 7 speed rear wheel in between the droputs which have to move out by about 3mm. Mildly irritating when having to take the wheel out but that was it aside from adjusting the rear mech limit screw. Nothing more to it than that. How much to fund going from 10 to 11 speed (not that there would be any point to that)?
Looking forward to riding it to York next week - it's like the bicycle equivalent of a Rolls Royce lovely smooth ride and a silent gear train. Beautiful bike.
But not more than the cost of a normal wheel surely? A standard 130mm hub will fit with a reduced nds spacer. You'd just dish it slightly differently.
I'm happy with the respray price but the extortionate cost of buying old Campag bits had me stumped for a while. Luckily I spotted a second hand bike for sale in a bike shop in France that had everything I needed - it cost me £85. I think the seller was disappointed that I didn't even haggle.
Got to admit that restoring the bike is just about nostalgia and nothing to do with it being a fantastic ride. Just wish I could get my body back to it's 1985 shape too.
Not that I have got around to doing this yet...
Edit: Also I have no idea how steel compares to Ti in feel.