Where to start?

slickmouse

cooldad wrote:

If you are doing it properly, you use a race remover, headset press, crown race puller and crown race installer, or get the LBS to do it with the right tools.
.

REALLY, i can get all the above for 20 quid, please tell me where il go and get them immediately

cooldad

Probably in her tool belt

Chunkers1980

It's closer to 20 quid than a few grand.

cooldad

And a 20 ton press could make a bit of a mess of the frame.

welshkev

slickmouse wrote:

well yes and no, any moron can do it with a few grands worth of equipment as well, its always easier with a ramp of a pit or 20 ton press etal. but the equipment only makes doing a good job easier/quicker, it doesn't alter the quality of the finished job, you can balls it up with the correct equipment, just as you can do a top job by applying technique and and ingenuity with a lot less equipment

you cant really put forward an argument that drifting it in cold with a bit of wood, is a better alternative to having the most equipped of workshops, that drifting it in warm with a correct sized drift, now can you

you could say it doesn't matter if you drift it in cold, and its for people like you with no mechanical sympathy that locktight stud and bearing fit was invented and why im having to shim the drive side bearing on the BSA A10 im doing as a previous owner thought the same

I thought we were talking about a headset on a bike...where did motorbikes come into this? :?

Kowalski675

welshkev wrote:

slickmouse wrote:

well yes and no, any moron can do it with a few grands worth of equipment as well, its always easier with a ramp of a pit or 20 ton press etal. but the equipment only makes doing a good job easier/quicker, it doesn't alter the quality of the finished job, you can balls it up with the correct equipment, just as you can do a top job by applying technique and and ingenuity with a lot less equipment

you cant really put forward an argument that drifting it in cold with a bit of wood, is a better alternative to having the most equipped of workshops, that drifting it in warm with a correct sized drift, now can you

you could say it doesn't matter if you drift it in cold, and its for people like you with no mechanical sympathy that locktight stud and bearing fit was invented and why im having to shim the drive side bearing on the BSA A10 im doing as a previous owner thought the same

I thought we were talking about a headset on a bike...where did motorbikes come into this? :?

Removing / inserting an MTB headset's basically the same as removing / fitting head bearings in a motorbike headstock (although that's not what he was on about) - but you wouldn't use a blowtorch for that either, lol (although some people put the bearings in the freezer for a few hours before fitting them). It's not often that I agree with Cooldad, but you'd have to be a bit bonkers to start waving a blowtorch at your frame, just to remove a headset (and that much heat could well affect the metallurgy of the ally). As has been said by various others, just tap the thing out with a drift, or spend a tenner on a removal tool (you'll have it out in less time than it takes to light your blowtorch, lol). For refitting you can make a drawbolt tool for a quid or two.

rockmonkeysc

cooldad wrote:

Probably in her tool belt

She has a tool belt? I didn't get that far down. Her big hammer would also do the job.

cooldad

Yep, nice mallets.

gt-arrowhead

cooldad wrote:

I normally get into trouble for saying this, but in this case it’s justified - b0llocks.
There is no need to use heat at all. A decent whack will remove the cups, and to reinstall, a piece of wood used as a cushion will make sure they don't get damaged.
And you don't use a drift to put the cups in - they are proud of the frame, so just need tapping in.
Apologies if I misunderstood some of your post, but parts of it resemble gibberish.

I agree, definitely do not heat your frame. 1. there is not point/need and 2. It is very likely it will damage your frame or at least melt the paint and or any decals you have.

Removal: Get a flathead on the edge of the cup and whack them out if you dont have a headset press.

Fitting: Get the bike in a position where you can have the headtube at 90 degrees with the ground, (i like to leave my seat in and have a rubber mat underneath the seat, seat is for not getting the frame damaged, and the mat is to not rip the seat) Then place the cup on the headset and position it level with the headtube, then simply whack it with a wooden block to seat it in. It will most likely take 5-6 whacks. Or you can rest the block on the cup, then whack the block with a hammer. 3rd way is whacking the cup directly with a rubber mallet, but i prefer the wood method.

slickmouse

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

cooldad wrote:

I normally get into trouble for saying this, but in this case it’s justified - b0llocks.

I agree, definitely do not heat your frame. 1. there is not point/need and 2. It is very likely it will damage your frame or at least melt the paint and or any decals you have.

.

right i can see your an expert !!!!

do you really think you can MELT paint ? that is turn it from a solid to a liquid,

go on then, how is it going to damage your frame to warm it to a 100c, how hot do you think it is when they weld it together ?

slickmouse

welshkev wrote:

slickmouse wrote:

well yes and no, any moron can do it with a few grands worth of equipment as well, its always easier with a ramp of a pit or 20 ton press etal. but the equipment only makes doing a good job easier/quicker, it doesn't alter the quality of the finished job, you can balls it up with the correct equipment, just as you can do a top job by applying technique and and ingenuity with a lot less equipment

you cant really put forward an argument that drifting it in cold with a bit of wood, is a better alternative to having the most equipped of workshops, that drifting it in warm with a correct sized drift, now can you

you could say it doesn't matter if you drift it in cold, and its for people like you with no mechanical sympathy that locktight stud and bearing fit was invented and why im having to shim the drive side bearing on the BSA A10 im doing as a previous owner thought the same

I thought we were talking about a headset on a bike...where did motorbikes come into this? :?

err Mbikes and push bikes share some remarkable similarities, like eer wheels and frame and head sets, in fact ive heard a rumour that mbikes developed from push bikes

cooldad

slickmouse wrote:

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

cooldad wrote:

I normally get into trouble for saying this, but in this case it’s justified - b0llocks.

I agree, definitely do not heat your frame. 1. there is not point/need and 2. It is very likely it will damage your frame or at least melt the paint and or any decals you have.

.

right i can see your an expert !!!!

do you really think you can MELT paint ? that is turn it from a solid to a liquid,

go on then, how is it going to damage your frame to warm it to a 100c, how hot do you think it is when they weld it together ?

Firstly learn to use the quote function. I did not say what you are quoting me as saying.
Secondly read what you write. A blowtorch will heat to more than 100 degrees.
Thirdly read up on welding aluminium and heat treating.

Then stop being an idiot.

Kowalski675

Somebody take his spade away, lol...

slickmouse

cooldad wrote:

slickmouse wrote:

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

cooldad wrote:

I normally get into trouble for saying this, but in this case it’s justified - b0llocks.

I agree, definitely do not heat your frame. 1. there is not point/need and 2. It is very likely it will damage your frame or at least melt the paint and or any decals you have.

.

right i can see your an expert !!!!

do you really think you can MELT paint ? that is turn it from a solid to a liquid,

go on then, how is it going to damage your frame to warm it to a 100c, how hot do you think it is when they weld it together ?

Firstly learn to use the quote function. I did not say what you are quoting me as saying.
Secondly read what you write. A blowtorch will heat to more than 100 degrees.
Thirdly read up on welding aluminium and heat treating.

Then stop being an idiot.

read up on welding ali ? i have a licience to weld planes !

but go on lets continue with your remedial class, a blow torch is a precision device, you can warm an item to exactly the temp you require, you dont need to stand there till the gas runs out, if you require it to say a 100c you warm it till its just to hot to touch, like say a cup of hot coffee, that will a) give you sufficient expansion to drop your cup in with out much resistance and b) not even effect the paint let alone damage the ali

or if thats a bit complex for you, you can go with my other suggestion of pouring boiling water over it, this has the advantage of being at or about 100c but requires a bucket and mop as additional equipment

if you REALLY need to warm ali up to get something out, smear a bar of soap on it, when the soap turns black you in danger of damaging the metal if you carry on

cooldad

slickmouse wrote:

read up on welding ali ? i have a licience to weld planes !

Is that what your nurse told you?
If true that's the last time I fly.

Kowalski675

I think you're missing the point - that applying heat to remove or refit a headset is totally unnecessary. It's just a slight interference fit, and can just be tapped out and either drifted back in with the aforementioned block of wood & hammer, or pressed in with a simple home made drawbolt (my preference). Do you really think there's a man on the assembly line at the factory waving a blowtorch around when the OE headsets are fitted?...

cooldad

Don't be silly - it's a factory and they fit thousands, so they have a massive industrial strength furnace.

rockmonkeysc

slickmouse wrote:

read up on welding ali ? i have a licience to weld planes !

Two points I would like to bring up here. Firstly, it's spelt licence.
Secondly, you don't need one to weld planes. You need to be coded (I'm sure you can tell us which coding it is?) and all welding needs to be inspected using the correct type of NDT (again, which NDT technique would be used?).
Thirdly, welding on planes is extremely rare in the UK.

Kowalski675

cooldad wrote:

Don't be silly - it's a factory and they fit thousands, so they have a massive industrial strength furnace.

Ah, I see. Probably have a bigger hammer too.

Kowalski675

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Thirdly, welding on planes is extremely rare in the UK.

I've seen his plane, and I'm pretty sure that you can't weld cardboard...

rockmonkeysc

Kowalski675 wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Thirdly, welding on planes is extremely rare in the UK.

I've seen his plane, and I'm pretty sure that you can't weld cardboard...

I said in the UK. What flag is on the tail of that plane?

cooldad

RockmonkeySC wrote:

slickmouse wrote:

read up on welding ali ? i have a licience to weld planes !

Two points I would like to bring up here. Firstly, it's spelt licence.
Secondly, you don't need one to weld planes. You need to be coded (I'm sure you can tell us which coding it is?) and all welding needs to be inspected using the correct type of NDT (again, which NDT technique would be used?).
Thirdly, welding on planes is extremely rare in the UK.

Probably using a giant hammer.

Kowalski675 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Don't be silly - it's a factory and they fit thousands, so they have a massive industrial strength furnace.

Ah, I see. Probably have a bigger hammer too.

Kowalski675

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Thirdly, welding on planes is extremely rare in the UK.

I've seen his plane, and I'm pretty sure that you can't weld cardboard...

I said in the UK. What flag is on the tail of that plane?

It's not like it's a real plane - he can put whatever flag on it he wants, lol...

slickmouse

Kowalski675 wrote:

I think you're missing the point - that applying heat to remove or refit a headset is totally unnecessary. It's just a slight interference fit, and can just be tapped out and either drifted back in with the aforementioned block of wood & hammer, or pressed in with a simple home made drawbolt (my preference). Do you really think there's a man on the assembly line at the factory waving a blowtorch around when the OE headsets are fitted?...

aahh a man with answers ! how SLIGHT is this ''slight interference fit''

nicklouse

slickmouse wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

I think you're missing the point - that applying heat to remove or refit a headset is totally unnecessary. It's just a slight interference fit, and can just be tapped out and either drifted back in with the aforementioned block of wood & hammer, or pressed in with a simple home made drawbolt (my preference). Do you really think there's a man on the assembly line at the factory waving a blowtorch around when the OE headsets are fitted?...

aahh a man with answers ! how SLIGHT is this ''slight interference fit''

you can read all he tolerances on Parktools.

Kowalski675

slickmouse wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

I think you're missing the point - that applying heat to remove or refit a headset is totally unnecessary. It's just a slight interference fit, and can just be tapped out and either drifted back in with the aforementioned block of wood & hammer, or pressed in with a simple home made drawbolt (my preference). Do you really think there's a man on the assembly line at the factory waving a blowtorch around when the OE headsets are fitted?...

aahh a man with answers ! how SLIGHT is this ''slight interference fit''

Slight enough that you'd have to be a bit retarded to start waving a blowtorch at your head tube, rather than just spending a few minutes pressing the headset in with a drawbolt and a couple of 19mm spanners, lol...

slickmouse

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Thirdly, welding on planes is extremely rare in the UK.

your just making things up( again) So go on ! how many planes were welded in the UK last year, you must know this to say its rare ?

I have half shares in a Cessna 172, which was purchased as eeer crashed, it needed a fair bit of welding to get its cert, it was cheaper to get the qualification than it was to pay someone else to weld it,

slickmouse

Kowalski675 wrote:

slickmouse wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

I think you're missing the point - that applying heat to remove or refit a headset is totally unnecessary. It's just a slight interference fit, and can just be tapped out and either drifted back in with the aforementioned block of wood & hammer, or pressed in with a simple home made drawbolt (my preference). Do you really think there's a man on the assembly line at the factory waving a blowtorch around when the OE headsets are fitted?...

aahh a man with answers ! how SLIGHT is this ''slight interference fit''

Slight enough that you'd have to be a bit retarded to start waving a blowtorch at your head tube, rather than just spending a few minutes pressing the headset in with a drawbolt and a couple of 19mm spanners, lol...

you see slight isnt an engineering term i recognize, in engineering a thou is very long way, so if your saying its of no consequence, its really incumbent one you to know what the measure is and then justify its as such, so go one then

Kowalski675

And again, in English?... :roll:

nicklouse

and this topic is so OT it is now locked.