Where to start?

bwfc4eva868

Well as I have got a new frame (2010) fury and I want to swap it over the bits from my Vulcan. Where the hell do I start or do I get a bike shop do it for £50 plus parts.

welshkev

I stripped down my bike yesterday in about 40 mins. Easy. Just go about it methodically and write down/ take pics of where everything goes.

I'm useless at indexing gears when it goes back together though

The Rookie

You can do that in about an hour, get a simple bike tool kit and you'll have everything you need (Lidl/Aldi/on-one), will still cost less than the £50 and you'll still have the tools!

mcnultycop

Imagine if there was a build up order thread conveniently posted in the tech FAQS.

supersonic

Or another half dozen threads in the buying section ;-)

cooldad

mcnultycop wrote:

Imagine if there was a build up order thread conveniently posted in the tech FAQS.

That reference might be a bit subtle.
viewtopic.php?f=40073&t=12627966

bwfc4eva868

cooldad wrote:

mcnultycop wrote:

Imagine if there was a build up order thread conveniently posted in the tech FAQS.

That reference might be a bit subtle.
viewtopic.php?f=40073&t=12627966

Thanks for the Link.

Sometimes people don't have time to start searching through the sub forums or using the search facility. Hence the new post.

bwfc4eva868

My one major question is how do I fit the forks as the steerer is cut for the Vulcan frame but there is none in the new frame. So it's just a case of fitting and hoping the steerer is long enough?

cat_with_no_tail

You didn't have time to use the search facility, but had time to type out a post asking the exact same question?

Do you often find yourself suppressing an urge to lick windows you pass in the street?

I didn't have time for breakfast today, so I drove 50miles out of my way to get a bacon butty.

Also, if the steerer on your existing forks is too short to fit on the new frame, you're out of luck. New forks time.

cooldad

You could measure the headtube and add the headset stack height and see.
Or just try and fit it - if it's too short it won't work, so that's simple enough.
Or actually read about what you want to do.
Everything has been asked before, and most of the useful stuff is either in the FAQ's or on Parktools.

BigAl

There's really nothing difficult about building a bike. But, it looks like you're pretty inexperienced at it so I would suggest that you at least get your LBS to fit the headset cups and bottom bracket. The rest you can do yourself at your leisure with no drama.

50 miles out of your way on a 30 mile island. Now that is dumb

bwfc4eva868

Cat With No Tail wrote:

You didn't have time to use the search facility, but had time to type out a post asking the exact same question?

Do you often find yourself suppressing an urge to lick windows you pass in the street?

I didn't have time for breakfast today, so I drove 50miles out of my way to get a bacon butty.

Also, if the steerer on your existing forks is too short to fit on the new frame, you're out of luck. New forks time.

Because typing can be quicker than searching through potentially 100's of posts and not getting the answer I want. I will try your use the search facility in the library next time a patient asks me about his/her treatment.

It was a question and all you've contributed is an insulting post. Extremely helpful. :roll:

cooldad

It always helps to do a bit of research before asking questions so you know what to ask.

bwfc4eva868

cooldad wrote:

It always helps to do a bit of research before asking questions so you know what to ask.

Maybe but sometimes people don't want to. And then get sarcastic unhelpful posts.
Just get a a forum moderator to delete the topic. I'll get a mate help and pay someone money to do the bits I can't.

slickmouse

bwfc4eva868 wrote:

My one major question is how do I fit the forks as the steerer is cut for the Vulcan frame but there is none in the new frame. So it's just a case of fitting and hoping the steerer is long enough?

perhaps you asked the wrong question, but i can still see the irony of people wasting their time writing multiple posts telling you, you are wasting their time

with out any great knowledge of the make, id be surprised but not amazed if the steer length were way different

SO where do you start ? id suggest, ignoring the build sequence and finding out for sure if the forks will fit, by wizzing them off and offering them up, (though you can get a good idea just by measuring the tube on the respective frames)

, if it looks like its going to fit,you can get the cups out of the head stock easily enough, by heating the frame, with a blow torch or if you intend to sell it on, by slowly pouring boiling water over it, then get a long screw driver though and taping it out rotating around the out most edge, you have to be quick whist its still hot or get some more water on it if it cools

bang them in the new frame the same way( using heat), but try and find a socket of some tube the same size, rather than a screw driver, stick some stud and bearing fit onto make sure it stays put

cooldad

Ignore most of the above. Do not heat your frame. Do not take a blow torch anywhere near it.
If you are doing a new build I would suggest a new headset, and do not install it with a screwdriver. A headset press or a chunk of wood and a hammer to install the new one.
Measure it first.

paul.skibum

No heat for the headset please - your best bet if inexperienced is to get the headset fitted by a bike shop - I have fitted them with my home made press many times but for speed and efficiency it would be best to get a LBS to look att he forks and the frame and fit the appropriate headset to ensure no issues.

The rest of the build is readily done at home with simple tools and is a satisfying task to work through - have at it.

I would generally fit the forks first and secure with the stem and bars. Then work through brakes, cranks and gears, chuck on wheels and finishing stuff and see how it rolls!

While in the LBS for the headset consider getting the bottom bracket faced to ensure a good fit and finish for your bearings.

Good luck and ignore the pedants.

BigAl

A strange assumption, that someone asking advice on how to build a bike would just have a blowtorch 'hanging around'.

As posted above - do not heat the frame to get the headset cups out.

You can get the cups out by (gently) tapping the cups out. If you are going to do this work gradually and make sure the cups come out evenly (i.e. square). Likewise you can install the new cups with a piece of wood and a hammer - again work slowly and gently and make sure they go in square.

But I really would recommend that you get your LBS to do it. They have the correct tools so they'll do it properly - and it shouldn't cost much at all.

The rest of the assembly is pretty straightforward. Just take your time and, if in doubt, check here, Park Tools website or google. I'm sure you'll find it a satisfying experience and you'll learn how to fix and fettle your bike for future maintenance.

slickmouse

cooldad wrote:

Ignore most of the above. Do not heat your frame. Do not take a blow torch anywhere near it.
If you are doing a new build I would suggest a new headset, and do not install it with a screwdriver. A headset press or a chunk of wood and a hammer to install the new one.
Measure it first.

i didnt ACTUALY say knock it in with a screw driver, now did I, if your going to contradict me, at least contradict what i said, which is drift it in with a socket, that so much better than a '' bit of wood

BigAl wrote:

A strange assumption, that someone asking advice on how to build a bike would just have a blowtorch 'hanging around'.

.

No I wouldnt think it at all strange if he owned or had access to a blow lamp, my mother has one for browning off piesETAL and she knows nothing about mechanics , he can borrow hers if he likes

I dont know who has told you , you cant warm up bike frames ? heating ali to place/remove steel inserts is a well tried and trusted technique, at least it was when i did my HNC, it does seem to have been replaced pay someone else to it, if you cant do a simple job like that at home, then you really shouldnt be allowed to own spanners. Ive put manx norton crank cases in the over at gas mark 3 before now, with no ill effects and they are somewhat more precious than a vulcan frame

you can of course over do the heating, but its quite difficult with a BnQ blow lamp as the whole frame is a big heat sink and getting it warm enough, before the heat equalises is more of a problem, any way the alternative of boiling water was given, which some what limits the max temp to eer a 100 C and wouldnt damage the paint, like a blow lamp might

The problem is of course, the cups are larger than the hole you are trying to insert/remove them from, therefore if you dont slacken the fit, you will remove metal from the frame making them a loose fit, where as if warmed they will quite possibly drop out/in on their own

cooldad

I normally get into trouble for saying this, but in this case it’s justified - b0llocks.
There is no need to use heat at all. A decent whack will remove the cups, and to reinstall, a piece of wood used as a cushion will make sure they don't get damaged.
And you don't use a drift to put the cups in - they are proud of the frame, so just need tapping in.
Apologies if I misunderstood some of your post, but parts of it resemble gibberish.

The Rookie

Slickmouse I now hate you as you are forcing me to agree with Cooldad, and you are talking b0llocks (especially the piesETAL - at least learn where the space bar is!).

Only a moron would think you need heat to remove the headset.

As it happens the Carrera's use a semi-integrated single piece 'semi cartridge' headset that is very very easy to knock out with hammer and screwdriver and in with hammer and block of wood (I trap the frame between my knees).

slickmouse

cooldad wrote:

I normally get into trouble for saying this, but in this case it’s justified - b0llocks.
There is no need to use heat at all. A decent whack will remove the cups, and to reinstall, a piece of wood used as a cushion will make sure they don't get damaged.
And you don't use a drift to put the cups in - they are proud of the frame, so just need tapping in.
Apologies if I misunderstood some of your post, but parts of it resemble gibberish.

you use a ''drift'' to eer drift them into place evenly, there is no need for them to be flush or inside the tube for them to be drifted, sand drifts on the surface

so, your extensive mechanic knowledge, recommends a bit of wood to force it in to a hole too small for its diameter in preference to a appropriate sized drift and modest heat so it slips easily in with little force required !! can you pop round and put the valve guides in this BSA im building please, should be an( expensive) laugh

cooldad

See post above yours.

rockmonkeysc

Why do something yourself when you can get others to do it for you?

slickmouse

The Rookie wrote:

Slickmouse I now hate you as you are forcing me to agree with Cooldad, and you are talking b0llocks (especially the piesETAL - at least learn where the space bar is!).

Only a moron would think you need heat to remove the headset.

As it happens the Carrera's use a semi-integrated single piece 'semi cartridge' headset that is very very easy to knock out with hammer and screwdriver and in with hammer and block of wood (I trap the frame between my knees).

i think we have the problem, NO you don’t NEED heat to remove it, you can whack it out with brute force , Yes of course you can, any moron can do that

the guy asked for advice on how to do it, i thought he mean how to do it properly, you thought he meant how to do it using a broom handle and a lump hammer, my mistake obviously

cooldad

Your mistake is forgiven, how else would you learn.

If you are doing it properly, you use a race remover, headset press, crown race puller and crown race installer, or get the LBS to do it with the right tools.
Or you use what you have, screwdriver, hammer, bit of wood etc.

In neither case do you use a blowtorch.

BigAl

If you can be bothered to read it, this is what Sheldon Brown (RIP) says about removing and re-fitting cups.

NO mention of heat, though a hammer, flat blade screwdriver and a block of wood all feature.

Removal:
The races can usually be removed with a hammer and an old flat-blade screwdriver that you don't care about.
The head tube races usually come out pretty easily if you stick the old screwdriver down into the head tube until it hits the internal edge of the race. Tap gently once, then move the screwdriver to the opposite side of the head tube. Keep going back and forth every other blow, so that you won't be driving the race out crooked, which could damage the head tube.

The fork crown race is sometimes more challenging, depending on the construction of the fork crown and the width of the race. You may or may not be able to get a good purchase on the underside of the race.

If the race has a good overhang on both sides of the fork crown, a bench vise is often best for this. Open the vise just wide enough to permit the fork crown to fit through loosely, so that the crown race is sitting on top of the vise jaws. Use a mallet to rap on the top of the steerer, driving the fork down and away from the race. It is a good idea to thread the headset locknut onto the steerer before doing this, to prevent damage to the threads of the steerer.

Alternatively, a bicycle workstand can be used to clamp the steerer with the fork upside down. You can use the hammer and old screwdriver to drive off the race.

Some races and some fork crowns give very little to grab onto. There are special shop tools to work around this problem, so you might want to just bring the fork into your local shop and have it remove the race.

Replacement:
The press-fit races need to be seated firmly.
The head tube races can be tapped into place with a mallet and a block of soft wood that spreads the impact all the way around the margin. Use another block of wood to support the other end of the head tube, and be sure it's sitting level so you don't damage it. Bike shops have threaded tools to pull the races into place.

The fork crown race is more difficult to seat. You can tap on one side and the other, inboard next to the steerer with your old screwdriver, or you may tap on a length of pipe that just fits over the steerer. Turn the pipe around as you tap, in case the surface which rests against the crown race isn't perfectly level.

If you don't get the races firmly seated, they will seat themselves during riding, and the headset will loosen. It then only needs to be readjusted. If working on someone else's bicycle, you should be sure to get the races seated fully before delivering it. If you don't have special tools, you could go for a short, bumpy ride to seat the races, then readjust the headset.

nicklouse

cooldad wrote:

Your mistake is forgiven, how else would you learn.

If you are doing it properly, you use a race remover, headset press, crown race puller and crown race installer, or get the LBS to do it with the right tools.

you forgot the big hammer.

slickmouse

well yes and no, any moron can do it with a few grands worth of equipment as well, its always easier with a ramp of a pit or 20 ton press etal. but the equipment only makes doing a good job easier/quicker, it doesn't alter the quality of the finished job, you can balls it up with the correct equipment, just as you can do a top job by applying technique and and ingenuity with a lot less equipment

you cant really put forward an argument that drifting it in cold with a bit of wood, is a better alternative to having the most equipped of workshops, that drifting it in warm with a correct sized drift, now can you

you could say it doesn't matter if you drift it in cold, and its for people like you with no mechanical sympathy that locktight stud and bearing fit was invented and why im having to shim the drive side bearing on the BSA A10 im doing as a previous owner thought the same

cooldad

A few grands worth of equipment? you mean about £20 tops for the right tools.

Are you on drugs?

It's a headset, on a bicycle.

I think you are really really lost.

cooldad

nicklouse wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Your mistake is forgiven, how else would you learn.

If you are doing it properly, you use a race remover, headset press, crown race puller and crown race installer, or get the LBS to do it with the right tools.

you forgot the big hammer.

Sorry.

And a bloody great big hammer.