Will Horner get a new contract for 2014

rolf_f

How long has Horner being coming up with this sort of performance? I noticed it a couple of years ago on the Tour of California. I think it was a fairly easy stage with a really steep ramp at the end. Horner destroyed the opposition. I'm all keen when the older blokes show the youngsters a thing or two but this did seem hard to believe. He was older than Armstrong on his comeback yet suddenly performing in such a way that even a clearly doped up Armstrong couldn't manage.

Surely there should be some younger riders that could swat him on those steep climbs but instead he is destroying them. Age does take it's toll but if Horners performance is natural, wouldn't there be plenty of other riders older than him still holding on in the peloton? I want to believe he is clean but pure logic says he can't be.

RichN95.

Rolf F wrote:

How long has Horner being coming up with this sort of performance? I noticed it a couple of years ago on the Tour of California. I think it was a fairly easy stage with a really steep ramp at the end. Horner destroyed the opposition. I'm all keen when the older blokes show the youngsters a thing or two but this did seem hard to believe. He was older than Armstrong on his comeback yet suddenly performing in such a way that even a clearly doped up Armstrong couldn't manage.

Surely there should be some younger riders that could swat him on those steep climbs but instead he is destroying them. Age does take it's toll but if Horners performance is natural, wouldn't there be plenty of other riders older than him still holding on in the peloton? I want to believe he is clean but pure logic says he can't be.

The thing is his performance is very unusual.

If he's doing it clean is very unusual
But if he's doping it is still very unusual.

He may be doping, but even if it is it only offers a partial solution to the conundrum.

iainf72

RichN95 wrote:

The thing is his performance is very unusual.

If he's doing it clean is very unusual
But if he's doping it is still very unusual.

He may be doping, but even if it is it only offers a partial solution to the conundrum.

Exactly this.

prawny

Rolf F wrote:

Surely there should be some younger riders that could swat him on those steep climbs but instead he is destroying them.

Maybe the riders that should/would be destroying him are knackered/putting there feet up after racing the more important GTs (sorry spaniards) What's Horner done the rest of this year? Has he done much racing? I have to admit I haven't been following the raching as much as normal this year.

I'm not a fan of Horner or Trek and earlier in the race I had a chuckle to myself and though 'I'll have what he's having' but saying that, I don't trust any of the top riders in this Vuelta, so I don't really mind, just enjoying the spectacle.

Maybe they should turn the Vuelta into some kid of derestricted dope off. Like a demolition derby at the end of a banger race meeting

andyp

prawny wrote:

Maybe they should turn the Vuelta into some kid of derestricted dope off. Like a demolition derby at the end of a banger race meeting

Turn? They've been doing that for years.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... vuelta0520

morstar

Lemond very quickly began to look very ordinary as EPO kicked in toward the end of his career. If you accept he was winning the Tour as a clean rider against doping riders then his was a truly remarkable talent that was eventually eclipsed by the evolution of doping. It is not impossible that Horners is the reverse story.

I won't for one second be surprised if he does get busted but his absolute performance isn't remarkable in itself, it's only remarkable in context of his overall career and his age. I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt (It's just a big doubt).

prawny

andyp wrote:

prawny wrote:

Maybe they should turn the Vuelta into some kid of derestricted dope off. Like a demolition derby at the end of a banger race meeting

Turn? They've been doing that for years.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... vuelta0520

Ack, I mean to put Officially turn the vuelta into a deristricted dope off. Sorry my bad. The test event in Turkey has been going well so maybe next year.

joelsim

Is this Rider 15 we are talking about here?

Yellow Peril

In best Nordic Saga tradition perhaps it will be this scenario...

Somewhere deep beneath the surface of the Earth a slumbering creature's ears pricked to the sounds of feats unseen or unheard of for many years. The creature consumed and nourished on the fantastic occurrences from the surface above and suddenly its eyes flickered open like a flame taking in a smouldering fire. Slowly and purposefully the creature stirred and shifted, drawn and compelled to find that which had woken it...the Gewiss was alive.

frenchfighter

andyp wrote:

prawny wrote:

Maybe they should turn the Vuelta into some kid of derestricted dope off. Like a demolition derby at the end of a banger race meeting

Turn? They've been doing that for years.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... vuelta0520

Gee whizz that doesnt reflect well at all on Sastre...

dish_dash

yeah I thought that...

Sure it's been answered already somewhere, but why is it generally assumed that Sastre rode clean? Three of the four teams he rode for are known for doping. Is there more than he just didn't test positive or get caught out?

rolf_f

prawny wrote:

Maybe the riders that should/would be destroying him are knackered/putting there feet up after racing the more important GTs (sorry spaniards) What's Horner done the rest of this year? Has he done much racing? I have to admit I haven't been following the raching as much as normal this year.

There'll be a bit of that but I don't think everyone in the Vuelta is in a state of post Tour trauma. There's still, what, 150 riders in the race all younger than Horner and here he is back in red today. The Angliru will be fun.....

RichN95.

prawny wrote:

Maybe the riders that should/would be destroying him are knackered/putting there feet up after racing the more important GTs (sorry spaniards) What's Horner done the rest of this year? Has he done much racing? I have to admit I haven't been following the raching as much as normal this year.

In recent years there have been a few surprise people on the Vuelta podium - Velits, Froome, Mosquera, Cobo and now Horner. They all had one thing in common - the Vuelta was their only GT that year.

dolan_driver

It seems the human body is capable of amazing feats regardless of age;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Nyad

Could it be that as the peloton gets cleaner, the racing is "coming back" towards clean riders? There have been certain trends in recent times that might indicate this, like the re-emergence of the Colombians and recent results in Grand Tour races by the French. Chris Horner could be one of those who is racing at his natural level and has found success very late in his career because the racing generally has slowed a little and he is now one of the stronger riders. Maybe he has benefited from the doping by others, indirectly. Having been dragged around by a super-charged peloton in the past, "normal" racing is now somewhat a little easier for him. Who knows?

A number of his team-mates have commented in the past about Horner's boundless enthusiasm for bike racing. He mentioned in a magazine interview a few years ago that he saw himself racing into his forties at the highest level and he seems to be doing that. Jens Voight is still racing at a good level and wasn't Inigo Cuesta looking for another contract at 40-going-on-41? He seems to be regarded as something of an eccentric and perhaps that generates much of the dislike towards him but perhaps those eccentricities are also what allow him to dig deep and achieve his current successes.

DD.

dolan_driver

Double-post deleted.

DD.

tailwindhome

Dolan Driver wrote:

It seems the human body is capable of amazing feats regardless of age;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Nyad

Interesting example......not without her own controversies though.

richa

Which GT & for which team will Horner go for next year?

thomthom

Why is no one asking the teams why they aren't interested in a Vuelta winner?

...

Le Commentateur

They don't believe he can repeat it? Or, too much of a risk?

mechanism

Rumours of talks with Alonso on Twitter.

tailwindhome

Mechanism wrote:

Rumours of talks with Alonso on Twitter.

Was he linked with Ferrari?

prawny

TailWindHome wrote:

Mechanism wrote:

Rumours of talks with Alonso on Twitter.

Was he linked with Ferrari?

Sorry but that can't go uncommended. Nicely done sir.

majormantra

+1. That was gold.

Le Commentateur

davidof

RichN95 wrote:

Don't be too sure, on the Gadget Show they had a race between one of those bikes and Russ Downing up Holme Moss: Downing won quite easily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHU7qBZSsfk

Ok took the neighbour's Matra mountain bike and rode the Strava 14.6 km TDF segment in 39 minutes, beating the KoM by 7 minutes. I think Pantani was around 36 minutes no? I had to cut the assist somewhat for the last km as the battery was being drained at too high a rate.

mididoctors

hope he keeps the orange

Crozza

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/09/ ... ata_303994

davidof

Here's the ADH climb video, 38m40s. Not quite Pantani speeds but I'd be happy to take on a POE fulled Little Jack Horner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrIDJ_aPPIE

RichN95.

Crozza wrote:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/09/news/vuelta-champion-horner-to-release-biological-passport-data_303994

The reactions to the data will be more interesting than the data itself

EPO Delivery Man

I just keep thinking about what Hamilton said in his book about what proper racing should be like without the doping, namely that riders form should come and go, there should be winners but ultimately losers as well and no single person should dominate at the top through doping.

I dont think Horners win was unusual in itself, i think its more peoples perception of winners is 'unusual', they have got so used to seeing the like of one rider (for example, Armstrong) dominate races through doping, that their minds have trouble believing that winners can vary now.

Likewise its the same with performance, as Hamilton said, riders should lose, take Nibali for example, he won the Giro, but that obviously knackered him out, Froome was tired at his first race back after winning the Tour. So why is it unusual that a guy who hasnt raced much this year and saved himself for the Vuelta, and therefore fresher than the guys around him, winning the race? I dont have a problem with it.

I think its our perceptions of winners and losers that has to change, we have been so brain-washed by the Armstrong period of racing and only seeing the same old riders winning we cant quite get our heads around the fact that riders form comes and goes and so do the winners.

We shouldnt be moaning, this is exactly what everyone who loves the sport wanted, a level playing field where we see human beings competing without drugs and watching them go from glory to agony. Surely this is the whole purpose of sport?