Disc brakes what should I go for on my Pro6 build?

aberdeen_lune
aberdeen_lune Posts: 547
edited September 2013 in Commuting chat
I have a Kinesis Pro 6 frame to build up for winter commuting and club winter training rides. I have some nice parts to put on it carbon bars and old dura ace shifters, cranks and mech. ive still to decide on the brakes and wheels. I've been reading with interest MRSs thread on the HYRD brakes. Initially I was sold on BB7s especially the lighter version but I'm now worried about noisy brakes and pad clearance issues.

I am quite comfortable building up a bike but I have no experience of hydraulic brakes. Would I be best sticking with BB7 for simplicity or go for TRP spyrr for the double acting piston or should I go for HYRD and pick up the skills as I build?

I plan to run the bike with road tyres keeping a spare set of wheels with winter spikers for the icy days so ease of wheel change is important to me.

Any experienced advice for a disc brake virgin appreciated.
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Comments

  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    I've used BB5 and BB7s and neither impressed me massively. If the Spyre and HYRD offer improvements in pad setting / clearance and the same level of braking then I'd go for either of them.

    As the HYRD doesn't use hydraulic cabling but is self contained within the calliper it should be pretty straight forward to set up.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • rubertoe
    rubertoe Posts: 3,994
    The BB7's that I have just fitted are more than ample enough and after 4 days I can say I am more than suitably impressed!!

    or even go for the BB5's and save some money for an upgrade when the full hydraulic road discs become available, HY/RD's although are impressive do seem like a compromise.


    Edit - it appears that Asprilla and I disagree in our views entirely :roll:
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    rubertoe wrote:
    Edit - it appears that Asprilla and I disagree in our views entirely :roll:

    Indeed. I disagree with MRS on this subject too.

    With only one moving pad the BB5 and BB7 have always looked like a compromise system to me. I've not used the Spyre but to my eyes it looks like what a real mechanical disc should be.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • Wrath Rob
    Wrath Rob Posts: 2,918
    Full hydraulics are going to take a while to come down to a sensible price point so its down to a choice of BB7s or the HY/RD. Given my experience I'd spend the extra few quid on the HY/RDs .
    FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.
  • rubertoe
    rubertoe Posts: 3,994
    Asprilla wrote:
    rubertoe wrote:
    Edit - it appears that Asprilla and I disagree in our views entirely :roll:

    Indeed. I disagree with MRS on this subject too.

    With only one moving pad the BB5 and BB7 have always looked like a compromise system to me. I've not used the Spyre but to my eyes it looks like what a real mechanical disc should be.

    To be fair, I have previously only used Shimano's offerings, so BB (anything) was always going to be a serious improvement.
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    I have BB7s on one CX bike and TRP Spyre on the other. Given a choice between the two, I'd go for the Spyre every time; lighter, a bit more powerful, and a bit easier to set up. No direct experience of HY/RD, but when I opted for the Spyre the tradeoffs were:
    Spyre: lighter (this was the main one for me), cheaper, no possibility of boiling hydraulic fluid
    HY/RD: self-adjusting pads

    I'm pretty impressed with the Spyres; I'm sure the quality of the HY/RDs is just as good.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,560
    I'm happy with the BB7s on mine, loving the bike generally in fact. I agree with just about everything written above to a certain extent.
    The single piston aspect of the BB7 is a bit of a compromise, but it works pretty well. The TRP Spyre does seem like a better design. I think it is also slimmer making mudguard fitting easier if I'm not mistaken.
    The HYRD is also a bit of a compromise, but it has to be until proper hydraulic levers come down to a reasonable price. If they offer a significant improvement in feel I'd go that way. On that we have to listen to MRS and he seems to believe that is the case.
    Having been out on my hydraulic braked MTB last night and being truly irresponsible the power and feel is so much better. Braking hard with very light pressure on the levers and only locking up if I felt like being silly. If the HYRD feel anything like that that's what I'd go for.
  • Sorry I've been MIA on this thread - in Amsterdam sussing out an apartment.

    Currently I think HYRDs are the best cable brakes I've tried (better by a margin than BB7). But I am an N=1 and have done only about 20 miles so hardly conclusive. That said, I think it's a great concept so, if it's well executed (which I think it is) it's a great route to go. It's not as good as MTB hydraulic discs but that tends to be a 180mm disc working on a 26" wheel. I also doubt that the additional power and even the adjustment is worthwhile on the rear - the rear brake become almost worthless on the road.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • bunter
    bunter Posts: 327
    I have experience of BB5 (on my previous bike) and tektro lyra on my current Pro6. I had consistent problems with BB5 and found them difficult to get them set up. Lyra don't seem to be rated very highly but for me they work much better than BB5 and are easy to set up just how I like them. If it weren't for a persistent squeal on the front brake I would be pretty happy...
    If I had the money I think I would go for HY/RD. Do TRP still do the parabox thingie?
  • I'll third the BB5 hate, the way BB5 works tends to warp the disc as it only pushes from one side so your ride becomes a trade off between noise and braking performance or endless fiddling.

    The Avid Juicy 5 on my MTB is so much better than the BB5s now that it's bled and has new pads and is generally set up just so with a 180mm rotor. I have a spare 180mm conversion bracket when I get around to replacing the rotor on the road bike, but it's probably not worth doing until I go hydraulic as the bigger the rotor the more likely it is to warp.

    Like most on here I'm waiting for the UCI to pull their finger out and let the DOT 5.1 flow.
    I used to just ride my bike to work but now I find myself going out looking for bigger and bigger hills.
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Have had no issues using single push caliper on my commuter (cheap but superlightweight Clarkes), the brakes have racked up nearly 4,000 miles and I'm still on the original parts except for one set of pads, I've not warped or buckled any (lightweight alligator) discs in that time.

    BB's work better than many low end Hydrualics (including Juicy 5's in my opinion), the key is making sure they are adjusted properly and frequantly, as the static pad should literaly be skimming the disc the disc barely moves when braking, if you can see daylight through the gap they are maladjusted.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • The HYRDs seem the way to go even though there is a weight penalty. What's involved in setting them up?
  • The HYRDs seem the way to go even though there is a weight penalty. What's involved in setting them up?

    Very little - mostly just cable tension. There's a stop that holds the pads closed so you lock the cable with that in place then release it and check you have tension. I then used the "apply brakes and tighten up the caliper bolts" for alignment
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • I should add that getting holding of some might be your biggest challenge. They can be bought (imported) directly from TRP
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Thanks MRS. I assume the reservoirs come pre-filled then and there's no bleeding or syringing involved?
  • Thanks MRS. I assume the reservoirs come pre-filled then and there's no bleeding or syringing involved?

    Absolutely none. Easier to set up than mechanicals
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Thanks I'll see if I can track some down. I'm not in a mad hurry as winters still a little bit away.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    These are one of the best mechanicals:

    http://www.triplebuttedcycling.co.uk/ko ... 0-28-p.asp

    Twin actuation. But they may not work well with standard road brake levers.
  • The Rookie wrote:
    Have had no issues using single push caliper on my commuter (cheap but superlightweight Clarkes), the brakes have racked up nearly 4,000 miles and I'm still on the original parts except for one set of pads, I've not warped or buckled any (lightweight alligator) discs in that time.

    BB's work better than many low end Hydrualics (including Juicy 5's in my opinion), the key is making sure they are adjusted properly and frequantly, as the static pad should literaly be skimming the disc the disc barely moves when braking, if you can see daylight through the gap they are maladjusted.

    In that case it's probably time I replaced the rotor as it's not quite true so I can't set it as close to the rotor as it should be.

    Do you really rate BB5 above Juicy 5?
    Do you have any testing data that confirms this?
    I used to just ride my bike to work but now I find myself going out looking for bigger and bigger hills.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Rotors can be easily trued, just with thumbs!
  • I used to just ride my bike to work but now I find myself going out looking for bigger and bigger hills.
  • bunter
    bunter Posts: 327
    looks like this is a new option from Hope...
    http://road.cc/content/review/93070-hop ... -converter
  • bunter wrote:
    looks like this is a new option from Hope...
    http://road.cc/content/review/93070-hop ... -converter

    Has the V-Twin not been around for a while? I thought I'd seen these for sale at least 6 months ago. Like the TRP Parabox, I've never really been taken by these: feels like the worst of all worlds.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,560
    bunter wrote:
    looks like this is a new option from Hope...
    http://road.cc/content/review/93070-hop ... -converter

    Has the V-Twin not been around for a while? I thought I'd seen these for sale at least 6 months ago. Like the TRP Parabox, I've never really been taken by these: feels like the worst of all worlds.
    I was thinking that. I wonder if they've had a mini re-launch as discs are getting a lot of coverage in the press.
    I don't know if it would be the worst of both worlds, but couldn't say without trying all the options. Wouldn't a short cable with longer hydraulic hose make it a bit better than the HYRD? But, if that is the case why have TRP gone that route? Does the cable/hydraulic combination feel as good as pure hydraulic?
    So many questions mean* I'll stick with my BB7s for now.

    * And lack of funds
  • I was just thinking that the weight and the bleeding of the Parabox or V-twin, not to mention the installation, would be a faff (relative to the HY/RD or BB7).

    The HY/RD probably isn't quite as positive as full hydraulic (though, there's quite a bit of difference between the relative sizes of the disc & wheel of my road bike (160mm/700c) and MTB (180mm/26") so it's bound to feel sharper on the MTB (not to mention the different feel of braking on the hoods vs the end of an MTB lever). But I don't think I need full hydraulic (or the bill) given how good the HY/RD is. Next time it rains, I'll take the V and try the HY/RDs again - I'm settling in on the Foil right now as it's only 3 weeks until NL
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,560
    True, the remote master cylinder of the V twin/Parabox does have all the faff of cables added to the faff of hydraulic hoses and bleeding if necessary. So more complex and possibly more to go wrong. I guess the HYRD would rarely need bleeding as the tiny volume of fluid can't absorb much water and would be better sealed having fewer connections.
    The only way to really judge them would be to try all the different types of brake on the same frame with the same size discs. MRS you're half way there, you just need to try the remote type and full hydraulic for us. ;-)
    You must be busy with all the preparation for NL, moving jobs as an excuse to buy more bikes is a bit extreme.
  • rubertoe
    rubertoe Posts: 3,994
    Have there been any mention of price of the ShRAMano hydraulic offerings yet...

    I think until such time as they are cheap and everywhere and judging by eurobike this will happen sooner rather than later, I'll wait til the 3/4 gen and just stick with mech discs which are more than ample and suitable for my needs
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • You'll need new levers for both of the new hydraulic systems I think, so it won't be cheap.
  • Veronese68 wrote:
    The only way to really judge them would be to try all the different types of brake on the same frame with the same size discs. MRS you're half way there, you just need to try the remote type and full hydraulic for us. ;-)
    You must be busy with all the preparation for NL, moving jobs as an excuse to buy more bikes is a bit extreme.

    Well, Volagi now offer pretty much every option so I just need to buy one of each.... :wink::lol:

    ...except Mrs MRS has pretty much spent my redundancy on a house :roll:
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • PaulG99 wrote:
    You'll need new levers for both of the new hydraulic systems I think, so it won't be cheap.

    I think we worked out it would be around £600 to convert my Di2-equipped bike. We also figured I could offset that a bit by selling the leftover levers and BB7s but, having tried the HY/RD, I'm not convinced I need to go that route
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH