Vuelta stage 12 *spoiler*

knedlicky

smithy21 wrote:

Pozzovivo opting out of the run in.

Dr. Pozzo (as I heard some are now calling him) had a rear flat 3.9 km out and although he came in at 2-47 with two teammates, he (but not his teammates) was given the same time as Gilbert and the front group (45 riders) of the split peloton because the race jury extended the no-time-penalty time zone from 3 mins to 5 mins.

I have two grouses about this:
- I understand the no-time-penalty time zone change was made retroactively, after it had been seen what happened to Pozzovivo.
- The two teammates (Betancur and Gastauer) who waited for him and then towed him to the line weren’t granted this time privilege, although certainly one (I’m not sure which of the two) would have otherwise finished with the Gilbert group.

(Barguil was also given the same time as Gilbert, although he finished about 1 min down, but I’d guess from his real time loss of only a minute that his mechanical was in the last 3 km, so legitimate by current standard rules).

Pross

OCDuPalais wrote:

MrTapir wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

The way Carlton goes on about roundabouts, you'd swear they all have snipers in the middle of them.

His ridiculous over-dramatising of everything and his shouting is really starting to get to me, so much so i enjoyed the calm tones of Phil Liggett on the ITV highlights shows i've watched.

Is this the first time that these words have ever all appeared in the same sentence together in the English language?

I've also found him far better with Graham Jones rather than Sherwen and far better on the ears than Carlton.

Pross

knedlicky wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Pozzovivo opting out of the run in.

Dr. Pozzo (as I heard some are now calling him) had a rear flat 3.9 km out and although he came in at 2-47 with two teammates, he (but not his teammates) was given the same time as Gilbert and the front group (45 riders) of the split peloton because the race jury extended the no-time-penalty time zone from 3 mins to 5 mins.

I have two grouses about this:
- I understand the no-time-penalty time zone change was made retroactively, after it had been seen what happened to Pozzovivo.
- The two teammates (Betancur and Gastauer) who waited for him and then towed him to the line weren’t granted this time privilege, although certainly one (I’m not sure which of the two) would have otherwise finished with the Gilbert group.

(Barguil was also given the same time as Gilbert, although he finished about 1 min down, but I’d guess from his real time loss of only a minute that his mechanical was in the last 3 km, so legitimate by current standard rules).

Your first point is wrong. Carlton and Kelly had been discussing the increase to 5km before the puncture. When the puncture happened Carlton made a comment about what a shame it was only to be reminded by Kelly about the rule change. As for the other two, the rule plainly doesn't cover them as they didn't have a mechanical or crash but chose to wait.

diplodicus

knedlicky wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Pozzovivo opting out of the run in.

Dr. Pozzo (as I heard some are now calling him) had a rear flat 3.9 km out and although he came in at 2-47 with two teammates, he (but not his teammates) was given the same time as Gilbert and the front group (45 riders) of the split peloton because the race jury extended the no-time-penalty time zone from 3 mins to 5 mins.

I have two grouses about this:
- I understand the no-time-penalty time zone change was made retroactively, after it had been seen what happened to Pozzovivo.
- The two teammates (Betancur and Gastauer) who waited for him and then towed him to the line weren’t granted this time privilege, although certainly one (I’m not sure which of the two) would have otherwise finished with the Gilbert group.

(Barguil was also given the same time as Gilbert, although he finished about 1 min down, but I’d guess from his real time loss of only a minute that his mechanical was in the last 3 km, so legitimate by current standard rules).

I watched on eurosport and they mentioned the change from 3km to 5km way before Pozzovivo had his mechanical.

I would assume the teammates wouldn't benifit as they "chose" to wait rather than forced to lose time due to crash or mechanical

I did however wonder how genuine the mechanical was :shock:

diplodicus

Damn

I am obviously too slow at this posting lark as Pross beat me to it :oops:

RichN95.

Mad_Malx wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:

Gilbert's first win in 2012 was stage 9 at the Vuelta. The rainbow curse is finally broken however. World Champs in Florence looking good.

Gary Imlach answered my unasked question - has WC ever gone the whole season without winning?
Stephen Roach in 1988 apparently - mind you his 1987 wasn't too bad.

I think Rudy Dhaenens (1990 champ) was the last one not to win, and unlike Roche it wasn't down to injury.

knedlicky

Pross wrote:

knedlicky wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Pozzovivo opting out of the run in.

Dr. Pozzo (as I heard some are now calling him) had a rear flat 3.9 km out and although he came in at 2-47 with two teammates, he (but not his teammates) was given the same time as Gilbert and the front group (45 riders) of the split peloton because the race jury extended the no-time-penalty time zone from 3 mins to 5 mins.

I have two grouses about this:
- I understand the no-time-penalty time zone change was made retroactively, after it had been seen what happened to Pozzovivo.
- The two teammates (Betancur and Gastauer) who waited for him and then towed him to the line weren’t granted this time privilege, although certainly one (I’m not sure which of the two) would have otherwise finished with the Gilbert group.

Your first point is wrong. Carlton and Kelly had been discussing the increase to 5km before the puncture. When the puncture happened Carlton made a comment about what a shame it was only to be reminded by Kelly about the rule change. As for the other two, the rule plainly doesn't cover them as they didn't have a mechanical or crash but chose to wait.

Okay if that's the case - I wasn't following/watching/listening to Carlton and Kelly but another streaming where they didn't seem to know.

I felt I was already on shakey ground arguing about Pozzovivo's teammates, and understand your logic, but I now wonder if they (Pozzo's two teammates) knew of the rule change before this stage. If they were informed, there was no need for both of them to wait and pull Pozzovivo to the finish. But they did, so I presume they weren't informed.

Given their GC placings, in the end it's irrevelant what Pozzo's two teammates knew or how they behaved, but maybe it would be different if it were a case of Majka stopping to help Roche in the last 3-5 km.

FJS

RichN95 wrote:

Mad_Malx wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:

Gilbert's first win in 2012 was stage 9 at the Vuelta. The rainbow curse is finally broken however. World Champs in Florence looking good.

Gary Imlach answered my unasked question - has WC ever gone the whole season without winning?
Stephen Roach in 1988 apparently - mind you his 1987 wasn't too bad.

I think Rudy Dhaenens (1990 champ) was the last one not to win, and unlike Roche it wasn't down to injury.

Dhaenens had barely won anything before either

Luc Leblanc, 1994 worlds champ, didnt win the season after.

Art Vandelay

FJS wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Mad_Malx wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:

Gilbert's first win in 2012 was stage 9 at the Vuelta. The rainbow curse is finally broken however. World Champs in Florence looking good.

Gary Imlach answered my unasked question - has WC ever gone the whole season without winning?
Stephen Roach in 1988 apparently - mind you his 1987 wasn't too bad.

I think Rudy Dhaenens (1990 champ) was the last one not to win, and unlike Roche it wasn't down to injury.

Dhaenens had barely won anything before either

Luc Leblanc, 1994 worlds champ, didnt win the season after.

Indeed. For stat fans:
Philippe Gilbert needed 347 days for his 1st victory after his world title - the longest period since 1994 world champ Luc Leblanc who's next win came after 651 days of winning the Worlds.

Richmond Racer

Pross wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

MrTapir wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

The way Carlton goes on about roundabouts, you'd swear they all have snipers in the middle of them.

His ridiculous over-dramatising of everything and his shouting is really starting to get to me, so much so i enjoyed the calm tones of Phil Liggett on the ITV highlights shows i've watched.

Is this the first time that these words have ever all appeared in the same sentence together in the English language?

I've also found him far better with Graham Jones rather than Sherwen and far better on the ears than Carlton.

I actually find Graham Jones strangely soothing and calming. Liggett and Sherwan over-excite each other, so to speak :shock:

MrTapir

Richmond Racer wrote:

Pross wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

MrTapir wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

The way Carlton goes on about roundabouts, you'd swear they all have snipers in the middle of them.

His ridiculous over-dramatising of everything and his shouting is really starting to get to me, so much so i enjoyed the calm tones of Phil Liggett on the ITV highlights shows i've watched.

Is this the first time that these words have ever all appeared in the same sentence together in the English language?

I've also found him far better with Graham Jones rather than Sherwen and far better on the ears than Carlton.

I actually find Graham Jones strangely soothing and calming. Liggett and Sherwan over-excite each other, so to speak :shock:

I think going from Carlton to Liggett is like when you come off the motorway onto a minor road, you're still doing about 40mph but it feels really calm and smooth.

I think the good thing about Graham JOnes is that he doesn't always talk. There are pauses, then "oh Roche has just made it back, great riding". long pause, then something else. etc. Its just better to listen to and also you end up listening to more of it. The alternative is Carlton continuously talking about nothing and tuning it out.

frenchfighter

MrTapir

One of those people has a camel toe. And they aren't wearing black.

Pross

frenchfighter wrote:

I think she might have a similar effect on me!