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Sky train

EPO Delivery ManEPO Delivery Man Posts: 271
edited December 2013 in Pro race
Is it me or is the Sky lead-out train absolute b*llocks most of the time? compared to other teams it never seems to exist.

No wonder Cav left.
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Posts

  • TurfleTurfle Posts: 3,762
    They haven't even attempted a train since about March. Bit pointless when they have had no sprinters.

    Cav had a train for every race he did last year, minus the Tour.
  • They have Boassan Hagan going for the sprints at the Vuelta, but he always seems to be his tod with no team mates around him.
  • cescocesco Posts: 252
    It is, but then again it's not really part of their tactics is it? Shame for Bo Hagen indeed.
  • EBH is riding to build himself back up for the Worlds, after his crash in the Tour. Sky have come with a team for GC, no Sky sprint train really going all season as Turfle says.
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Next to Argos Shimano it doesn't look like anyone else has a train to be fair...
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,551
    The form EBH has been in this season he could have the old HTC train and not come close. You don't waste support riders that Uran will need to work hard riding for a rider who may, on a good day, get a podium spot. He even got beaten by Martin who had ridden the whole stage solo today!
  • Bo DukeBo Duke Posts: 1,058
    Sky have gone to sleep, half the team seem to have gone AWOL.
    'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Strong rider but not looking like he'll win the races his early promise suggested he might. Is there a case for suggesting a different team might suit him better ?

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • Strong rider but not looking like he'll win the races his early promise suggested he might. Is there a case for suggesting a different team might suit him better ?


    We go over this a lot. He seems to (usually) come into best form May-Sep. Doesnt matter what they/he do to make changes, including him leaving his old coach and working with a team coach since 2011, this doesnt seem to be something they can change to date, anyway. Which is a bit of a bummer for someone whose biggest goal is to win P-R - and who on paper should at least do a lot better than he does.

    And because he still holds out for the Classics, he doesnt want to drop the kgs necessary to start thinking GT ambitions for himself, only as a support role in the mountains.

    We know he can sprint - only 2 months ago he beat Meersman and Matthews in Stage 3, of the Dauphine. But he's inconsistent - and generally G's his best lead-out man on Sky, by a mile.

    Also he doesnt come across at the most driven, ambitious rider. While people go on about how he should move to another team cos maybe that'll lead to him winning 'all those races people thought he should have by now'....EBH himself may be just very content with the team and its set-up there for him.
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    I thought Sky did a decent job in the Tour 2012 when they had Cav to work for. They've no super sprinter now so no need to have such a train. I did think that Cav wouldnt win any more stages with a different team and that seemed to come right. Then again he didnt have much luck this year.
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Yeah I just think EBH isn't good enough a sprinter to work for - whether he isn't good enough because his focus has been working as a domestique for Wiggins and Froome is another question. I can't see him ever challenging in grand tours - but I imagine he's on good money given he was the next big thing when Sky signed him - strong rider though he is you wonder how much they are paying him to be a super domestique rather than someone who wins big races.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • Yeah I just think EBH isn't good enough a sprinter to work for - whether he isn't good enough because his focus has been working as a domestique for Wiggins and Froome is another question. I can't see him ever challenging in grand tours - but I imagine he's on good money given he was the next big thing when Sky signed him - strong rider though he is you wonder how much they are paying him to be a super domestique rather than someone who wins big races.


    He's not cheap, that's for sure. However, he was still their 2nd highest UCI points scorer last year, and still delivered for the team:

    stage at Tour of Algarve
    stage at Dauphine
    stage and overall at Tour of Norway
    GP Plouay
    stage at T-A
    + fair number of jerseys
    + integral part of the Dauphine and Tour winning teams

    So on the balance, maybe last year was an OK return in their books, who knows

    This year's going to look a lot bleaker
  • mechanismmechanism Posts: 891
    Nobody at the Vuelta can sprint better for sixth place than Edvald (ok there was a 7th and a 13th but still).
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    I think you have hit the nail on the head there.
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    I think you have hit the nail on the head there.
  • As much as anything, putting a sprint leadout in place in the final KMs has become a lot harder over the seasons since HTC folded (and hardly anyone else bothered fighting them for it). OPQS, Lotto, GreenEdge and Argos-Shimano are all fighting hard for the space. If you want to put your team up there then you've got to build a team to do that. You can't roll up with a team built to support a GC rider and expect to lead out a sprinter.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    He's not cheap, that's for sure. However, he was still their 2nd highest UCI points scorer last year, and still delivered for the team

    2012? He was 3rd behind Wiggins and Froome...
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Paul 8v wrote:
    I think you have hit the nail on the head there.

    What we really should be criticising is the quality of Sky's domestiques at the Tour... They just disappeared on many occasions.
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Yeah, if your GC domestiques don't do well on a sprint train that's one thing, if they all censored off apart from Richie Porte on a climb, that's another!
  • Heano looks to be looking for leadership role. Hope he doesn't compete against Froome? or Porte? Perhaps have him for the Vuelta?
    Sergio Henao, the “other” Colombian sensation behind his more famous compatriots, hopes to make his Tour de France debut in 2014 to help defending champion Chris Froome.

    The Sky climber told MARCA that he expects to step up in 2014 and hopes to make the Tour team. First, he will have chances to race for his own results in such races as the Ardennes classics and the Vuelta al País Vasco (Tour of the Basque Country).

    “The aim is to be at the Tour. First, I will debut at (Trofeo) Mallorca, (Tour of) Oman, followed by a similar calendar as last year, with [Tirreno-Adriatico], Basque Country, and the Ardennes,” Henao told MARCA. “After, I will rest, then meet with a group of riders on Tenerife before the (Critérium du) Dauphiné and the Tour.”

    Henao has already raced four grand tours — two Giros and two Vueltas — and now believes it’s time to race the Tour.

    “I hope to be at a high level for Froome,” he said. “On this team, there is always pressure, even more after winning the past two Tours. The objective is to go back and win it again, because at the same time, all the other teams want to be us.”

    Henao said it’s obvious what his role will be: “to be close to Froome.”
  • rayjayrayjay Posts: 1,384
    Sky are all about the tour. That's their focus and main goal. Simple. The only train is the one that go's up.

    Cav should never have joined them. I still don't understand why he did as he knew their objectives with Wiggo.
  • rayjay wrote:
    Sky are all about the tour. That's their focus and main goal. Simple. The only train is the one that go's up.

    Cav should never have joined them. I still don't understand why he did as he knew their objectives with Wiggo.

    I have no doubt in my mind that they had an agreement that if GB(mainly sky riders) rode for Cav at the worlds he would ride for Sky to give them the exposure that comes with having the rainbow stripes. It worked for both, Cav won the worlds, sky got the exposure I am sure Cav was happy to have a slightly less successful year but be able to say he was World Champ
  • rayjay wrote:
    Sky are all about the tour. That's their focus and main goal. Simple. The only train is the one that go's up.

    Cav should never have joined them. I still don't understand why he did as he knew their objectives with Wiggo.


    Riding for Sky meant Cav could prepare for the Olympics with a sensible schedule. On any other team, Cav's Olympic ambitions would have taken a back seat.
  • rayjayrayjay Posts: 1,384
    rayjay wrote:
    Sky are all about the tour. That's their focus and main goal. Simple. The only train is the one that go's up.

    Cav should never have joined them. I still don't understand why he did as he knew their objectives with Wiggo.


    Riding for Sky meant Cav could prepare for the Olympics with a sensible schedule. On any other team, Cav's Olympic ambitions would have taken a back seat.


    That worked out well :lol:
  • rayjay wrote:
    Sky are all about the tour. That's their focus and main goal. Simple. The only train is the one that go's up.

    Cav should never have joined them. I still don't understand why he did as he knew their objectives with Wiggo.


    Riding for Sky meant Cav could prepare for the Olympics with a sensible schedule. On any other team, Cav's Olympic ambitions would have taken a back seat.

    Well no one thought a track rider would ever win the Tour so Cav was a good idea.

    Until track riders became climbers.

    No need for Cav.
  • rayjay wrote:
    Sky are all about the tour. That's their focus and main goal. Simple. The only train is the one that go's up.

    Cav should never have joined them. I still don't understand why he did as he knew their objectives with Wiggo.


    Riding for Sky meant Cav could prepare for the Olympics with a sensible schedule. On any other team, Cav's Olympic ambitions would have taken a back seat.

    Well no one thought a track rider would ever win the Tour so Cav was a good idea.

    Until track riders became climbers.

    No need for Cav
    .

    I think there is an element of truth in this. I think Sky wanted Cav because he was a quick fix for success. Up until that point they were not winning anything. Remember all of those sprint trains that kept falling apart trying to bring EBH home, Wiggo's poor Tour form then broken collar bone?

    Cav signs (hopefully to get the Sky name across the line first for a change), Wiggo nails a winter's training with Sutton and all of a sudden they are winning one weekers and become Tour favourites. Perhaps even Cav didn't believe they'd ever shape up for Yellow and signed thinking they'd ride for Green.
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • Riding for Sky meant Cav could prepare for the Olympics with a sensible schedule. On any other team, Cav's Olympic ambitions would have taken a back seat.
    I think that is an interesting observation and it looks like I am not the only one disagreeing with it. Could you elaborate on that thesis? Riding Giro and Tour, where he was more of a mountaindomestique than a sprinter, he even had to ask to be allowed to sprint for a stage win, is that a sensible schedule?

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12150 ... ility.aspx

    Eight pounds lighter, just for Box Hill?
  • Stillnox wrote:
    Riding for Sky meant Cav could prepare for the Olympics with a sensible schedule. On any other team, Cav's Olympic ambitions would have taken a back seat.
    I think that is an interesting observation and it looks like I am not the only one disagreeing with it. Could you elaborate on that thesis? Riding Giro and Tour, where he was more of a mountaindomestique than a sprinter, he even had to ask to be allowed to sprint for a stage win, is that a sensible schedule?

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12150 ... ility.aspx

    Eight pounds lighter, just for Box Hill?

    I would imagine the Olympic prep thing would be a sweetener in the deal. I don't think the domestique/sprinter thing has any bearing on the Olympic prep. He needed to be in his best shape for the Olympics and in touch with the race for all of the ascents of Box Hill they could not afford for him to be swinging off the back.
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,279 Lives Here
    There's a lot of sneering about how easy box hill is.

    I was there and i saw a fair bit of attrition after 9 ascents.

    Has the same stats as the Poggio and that too causes problems.

    Seems entirely reasonable Cav would lose a little weight for the Olympics.
  • There's a lot of sneering about how easy box hill is.

    I was there and i saw a fair bit of attrition after 9 ascents.

    Has the same stats as the Poggio and that too causes problems.

    Seems entirely reasonable Cav would lose a little weight for the Olympics.

    I think this is the real point. 9 ascents at a an pace expected to foil anyone jumping off the front was a reasonably tall order. A nail biting race spoilt only by the eventual winner :(

    Chinny was in good form that day until he binned it. Does anyone think that he could have won the TT if he hadn't have taken that tumble?
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
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