Lock's been removed

thistle_

Just started work today at a new office.

I rode down yesterday and dropped my lock off to save carrying it in today and locked it to the railings as I couldn't get into the bike parking.

I've just been to retrieve it and it's been removed. No warning notices, nobody came around asking, it's just been removed.

Has anyone else had this happen to them or got any advice on where to go next?

I don't know who the facilities management people are at the office but when I find out they will be getting a visit.

It was a Kryptonite New York lock, so not exactly cheap.

asprilla

Unless they give you notice then it's theft.

moarspeed

Asprilla wrote:

Unless they give you notice then it's theft.

And if they cut it or damaged it, they have to replace it, else I suspect it's criminal damages.

I wonder if someone got a bee in their bonnet about it and arrogantly ordered it to be removed without thinking of the consequences.

Unfortunately it's really hard to search for any similar incidents because the words "bike" "lock" and "stolen" just bring up stolen bike related stuff.

chris_bass

if it is your first day then maybe it is common knowledge in the office.

We had a similar notice at our office, its to stop people 'claiming' a space as their own when space is limited.

were there other locks? have these been taken as well?

moarspeed

Chris Bass wrote:

if it is your first day then maybe it is common knowledge in the office.

We had a similar notice at our office, its to stop people 'claiming' a space as their own when space is limited.

were there other locks? have these been taken as well?

Did nobody use a brain cell in making that decision?
People don't leave locks to reserve spaces, they do it to avoid carrying 1.5kg of metal home and back.

Only a non-cyclist could dream that one up..... :roll:

dilemna

Co-incidence! The very same thing happened to me last week at work except I didn't lose one, but three good locks x2 Abus Grannit X Plus 54s and one Kryptonite chain lock, the really expensive one. So I have no locks. It will cost £350.00 to replace all of them. I lock my bike at the rear entrance of my work place, where we have access receiving deliveries and rubbish bins are located. However they have been removed. It must have taken them some effort to get them off. They weren't causing anyone any inconvenience. There were however several jallopy abandoned wrecks of bikes adjacent to where I usually leave my bike so presumably who ever removed these adopted a catch all policy including my obviously high quality locks. I was off thurs and fri last week so it must have been then when they were taken. The space is managed by Trinity College Cambridge. If I don't get them back pronto then they shall have to replace them. If they've binned them then I report it as theft to the police. I tried sorting it out sunday but of course being a Bank Holiday weekend no-one was available. If my bike is stolen in the mean time they can pay for a replacement as well as I have no locks.

thistle_

I have located said lock and will be asking for it back tomorrow.

Kryptonite would probably replace it on their warranty if I send it back, but they shouldn't have to.

The office has a locked and gated car park which is where they bike stands are. As it was the weekend the car park was locked so I left it on the railings at the side of the car park gates, and shoved the lock onto the other side so it wouldn't be in the way (not that anybody would walk there anyway).

There were 3 bikes in the stands when I came out this evening. I noticed that there weren't any locks left on the vacant stands, and I didn't notice any there this morning so maybe they have a strong objection to cyclists leaving locks?

Edit: If that's the case my bike will be living in the space next to my desk in the office

dilemna

If when you recover your lock you find it has been damaged or cut open then who ever did it needs to replace it.

Mr.Duck

Imagine if someone attached something to the side of your house. When it is attached to your property, it becomes your property too and you can have it removed and destroyed legally. I'm pretty sure that's how it works with buildings anyway.

moarspeed

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

I have located said lock and will be asking for it back tomorrow.

And?

What happened to it?

sazzaa

Mr.Duck wrote:

Imagine if someone attached something to the side of your house. When it is attached to your property, it becomes your property too and you can have it removed and destroyed legally. I'm pretty sure that's how it works with buildings anyway.

I'm in Aberdeen, someone was telling me recently not to lock my bike to anything in the town centre other than a proper bike stand (there are a lot of railings outside pubs etc here) as it would be cut off in no time at all, not by thieves but by bar/shop managers! I'm not sure how much truth is in this but I'm not willing to risk it...

anewman

It's probably a good sign if other locks are already there. At the bike sheds at my work place there are locks there that have obviously been long forgotten about. Since the security is quite good at my workplace anyway, need pass to get in and barriers etc, I just decided to get a cheap supermarket lock and leave it there to save me carrying my kryptonite.

asprilla

Mr.Duck wrote:

Imagine if someone attached something to the side of your house. When it is attached to your property, it becomes your property too and you can have it removed and destroyed legally. I'm pretty sure that's how it works with buildings anyway.

Not entirely sure it does become yours. Finders keepers isn't enshrined in law.

AFAIK you can remove and dispose of the lock, but only if you have made reasonable attempts to warn the owner that you are going to do this.

slowbike

If the locks been removed then it's not much of a lock is it?! Or perhaps it is and you didn't lock it to anything substantial ...

Eitherway - not sure I'd expect my lock to still be there if I left it in a public space.
I sympathise with the not wanting to carry Kgs of metal around with you - luckily I don't have that issue as my bike sits in my office - unlocked!

Btw - if someone left their lock, locked to my property then I'd have little issue in removing it - none whatsoever if it caused me inconvenience...

moarspeed

Slowbike wrote:

Btw - if someone left their lock, locked to my property then I'd have little issue in removing it - none whatsoever if it caused me inconvenience...

Not sure how a bike lock attached to a bike stand is going to cause an inconvenience??? I mean yes in a town centre or something it's a pain, but one put there for a specific business to use?

To me it's like someone is either being a jobsworth, or someone higher up (probably an Audiot) thinks people are rudely reserving spaces.

slowbike

MOARspeed wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Btw - if someone left their lock, locked to my property then I'd have little issue in removing it - none whatsoever if it caused me inconvenience...

Not sure how a bike lock attached to a bike stand is going to cause an inconvenience??? I mean yes in a town centre or something it's a pain, but one put there for a specific business to use?

To me it's like someone is either being a jobsworth, or someone higher up (probably an Audiot) thinks people are rudely reserving spaces.

Anyway - when referring to "my property" I meant my home property ... nobody (except me) has any right to leave stuff there ... it will be removed. It's not theft as I wouldn't intend to permanently deprive the owner of it.

At the office -
One lock ... ok ... two locks ... er ok .... three locks starting to look a bit messy ... would not surprise me if a fastidious co decided that no locks should be left and will remove any "litter" accordingly ...
Again - it's not theft if they don't permanently deprive the owner of it - ie they can come and claim it - although I guess there might be a release fee?

asprilla

Slowbike wrote:

MOARspeed wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Btw - if someone left their lock, locked to my property then I'd have little issue in removing it - none whatsoever if it caused me inconvenience...

Not sure how a bike lock attached to a bike stand is going to cause an inconvenience??? I mean yes in a town centre or something it's a pain, but one put there for a specific business to use?

To me it's like someone is either being a jobsworth, or someone higher up (probably an Audiot) thinks people are rudely reserving spaces.

Anyway - when referring to "my property" I meant my home property ... nobody (except me) has any right to leave stuff there ... it will be removed. It's not theft as I wouldn't intend to permanently deprive the owner of it.

At the office -
One lock ... ok ... two locks ... er ok .... three locks starting to look a bit messy ... would not surprise me if a fastidious co decided that no locks should be left and will remove any "litter" accordingly ...
Again - it's not theft if they don't permanently deprive the owner of it - ie they can come and claim it - although I guess there might be a release fee?

It's fairly standard practice to leave locks on office bike racks. The only time I've known them be removed anywhere (and as a consultant I've probably worked and cycled to 20 different offices in the last 10 years) is when facilities management do periodic clear outs to remove abandoned bikes and locks. These are, in line with the legal guidance they receive to avoid allegations of theft ond / or criminal damage, advertised up to two months in advance via notices, emails and stickers / notes on items at rick or removal. In all the cases I've experienced a specific date is given, usually a weekend, when any items remaining will be removed. Normal service is resumed the following day when locks and bikes can be locked up again. The removed items then generally have to be stored to a reasonable period of time, usually around six weeks, so that they may be claimed by their rightful owners if required. After that they can be disposed off.

Usually these exercises are to ensure that the best use is made of the cycle parking facilities and that abandoned bikes are not taking up spaces that others can use, not because it 'looks a bit untidy'.

jongooligan

We've had emails from facilities mgt that locks left overnight constitute a 'tripping hazard' and if not removed immediately will be destroyed.

Proper jobsworths.

thistle_

Well I got the lock back today.

There was someone on the reception desk so I asked if he knew what had happened to it. Got a rather shocked look from the guy who said their security company came and removed it because they didn't know who it belonged to :roll:
I wasn't going to stand and argue with him because I don't think it was his doing, plus I wanted to get home.

I can see it from their point of view that they don't want locks lying around everywhere, but I still think removing it without notice and without ringing upstairs asking 'did anyone leave a lock in the car park?' is a bit unreasonable.

He had the cheek to complain to me how much time it took them to remove it and how they'd knackered 2 angle grinder blades trying to cut it off and it was the hardest lock they'd ever had to remove :twisted: (although that suggests it is something they do regularly).
It looks like they tried breaking it with a jack and cutting it at a few different points before they found a way to do it.

I saw someone else coming in by bike today so mentioned it to them and they said they'd not heard of that happening before, but they always carry their lock and don't leave it. I checked again this morning, and no locks seem to get left on the bike stands overnight.
I think my bike's going to be living in the office next to my desk.

markhewitt1978

Perhaps attach a waterproof luggage tag to it saying something like:
PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE THIS LOCK. PROPERTY OF MR THISTLE
ENQUIRIES PLEASE CALL 07123 456 789

moarspeed

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

I think my bike's going to be living in the office next to my desk.

I'd be livid, you want to get on at them about a replacement, tell them how much it cost.......

Oh and question why the security guys are breaking locks instead of doing their jobs.

slowbike

I'd be pretty peed off too ...
not sure where the OP stands legally - he "abandoned" his lock on someone elses property and they forceably removed it.
They've given it back - although I assume it's now U/S.

Bike next to the desk is best - if you can get away with it.
For the wet rides, use some cardboard under the wheels & crankset.

markhewitt1978

Slowbike wrote:

I'd be pretty peed off too ...
not sure where the OP stands legally - he "abandoned" his lock on someone elses property and they forceably removed it.
They've given it back - although I assume it's now U/S.

Bike next to the desk is best - if you can get away with it.
For the wet rides, use some cardboard under the wheels & crankset.

He didn't abandon it at all. I'm somewhat familiar with the likes of this with geocaching. It's only abandoned if you mean it to be abandoned, the OP placed his lock there deliberately, it remains his property and anyone wishing to remove it because they didn't want it to be there should have attempted to contact the owner - and by that I mean go through a process covering several days including posting notices, not just going into reception and saying "who's is this lock?", then cutting it off a minute later.

To cut it off without going through this process is criminal damage just the same as someone putting a brick through your window.

Of course the OP can't exactly call the police on an agent of his new employer, perhaps obtain a cheaper lock until the practice is established.

rolf_f

I once came down to the bike in the basement carpark to find solder all over the lock. They'd done some work on some pipes above the rack without saying anything. I was annoyed that they'd put bike at risk and complained about it and I was told to fill in a form for a replacement lock! I said thanks but no thanks as the solder just flaked off without even marking the lock but it does show what the correct attitude should be. No question here that the company should be replacing his lock.

moarspeed

Rolf F wrote:

No question here that the company should be replacing his lock.

Exactly......

If my car broke down at work and I had to get a taxi home, i'd expect to find it in one piece when I returned to work the next day, not smashed to sh*t and cut open with an angle grinder.

OP needs to get to the bottom of this because it's utterly stupid, it shows a huge level of contempt, specifically toward cyclists, contempt that would not be shown toward a motor vehicle if that had been left their overnight.

I think somebody is stepping beyond their pay grade......

dilemna

Mr.Duck wrote:

Imagine if someone attached something to the side of your house. When it is attached to your property, it becomes your property too and you can have it removed and destroyed legally. I'm pretty sure that's how it works with buildings anyway.

Stupid analogy. No, the property does not become yours as you are NOT the legal owner. If you think you do then you have committed the tort of conversion under civil law.

dilemna

Slowbike wrote:

MOARspeed wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Btw - if someone left their lock, locked to my property then I'd have little issue in removing it - none whatsoever if it caused me inconvenience...

Not sure how a bike lock attached to a bike stand is going to cause an inconvenience??? I mean yes in a town centre or something it's a pain, but one put there for a specific business to use?

To me it's like someone is either being a jobsworth, or someone higher up (probably an Audiot) thinks people are rudely reserving spaces.

Anyway - when referring to "my property" I meant my home property ... nobody (except me) has any right to leave stuff there ... it will be removed. It's not theft as I wouldn't intend to permanently deprive the owner of it.

At the office -
One lock ... ok ... two locks ... er ok .... three locks starting to look a bit messy ... would not surprise me if a fastidious co decided that no locks should be left and will remove any "litter" accordingly ...
Again - it's not theft if they don't permanently deprive the owner of it - ie they can come and claim it - although I guess there might be a release fee?

Err I think you are not fully understanding the meaning of "permanently deprive the owner" of the property. If you remove something and by doing so permanently deprive ie so the owner can no longer have access to it then that is sufficient to constitute theft. If the property is damaged without lawful authority then this constitutes criminal damage.

sazzaa

dilemna wrote:

Mr.Duck wrote:

Imagine if someone attached something to the side of your house. When it is attached to your property, it becomes your property too and you can have it removed and destroyed legally. I'm pretty sure that's how it works with buildings anyway.

Stupid analogy. No, the property does not become yours as you are NOT the legal owner. If you think you do then you have committed the tort of conversion under civil law.

I'm not so sure? If a house had a railing round the garden and someone stuck a lock on there, then surely the homeowner has a right to remove it? As it's on their property?

moarspeed

sazzaa wrote:

dilemna wrote:

Mr.Duck wrote:

Imagine if someone attached something to the side of your house. When it is attached to your property, it becomes your property too and you can have it removed and destroyed legally. I'm pretty sure that's how it works with buildings anyway.

Stupid analogy. No, the property does not become yours as you are NOT the legal owner. If you think you do then you have committed the tort of conversion under civil law.

I'm not so sure? If a house had a railing round the garden and someone stuck a lock on there, then surely the homeowner has a right to remove it? As it's on their property?

Removing something is not the same as damaging something.
You could cut it off, but you'd have to give sufficient notice that you intended to do so OR put a sign up saying "any locks left here will be forcefully removed".

markhewitt1978

sazzaa wrote:

I'm not so sure? If a house had a railing round the garden and someone stuck a lock on there, then surely the homeowner has a right to remove it? As it's on their property?

Hmm, it's not the same is it? If someone put a bike lock on the fence outside your house then perhaps, but we are not talking about that, we are talking about bike stands, specifically there for the purpose of parking bicycles.

slowbike

dilemna wrote:

Err I think you are not fully understanding the meaning of "permanently deprive the owner" of the property. If you remove something and by doing so permanently deprive ie so the owner can no longer have access to it then that is sufficient to constitute theft. If the property is damaged without lawful authority then this constitutes criminal damage.

I do understand - having had a friendly conversation with a magistrate about it (ex colleague) ...