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Training to Conquer Dartmeet Climb

wackawacka Posts: 169
Hi,

Just been for a ride over Dartmoor and got beaten by a climb. The climb is the one heading out of Dartmeet ranging from 16-26% over 1km and I bonked! Any advice on specific training I can do to conquer this little monster. I appreciated a 10kg reduction in weight will help as I'm 87kg, but I had no power left in the legs even using 34/28 gears.

Posts

  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,256
    I doubt if you actually bonked. Sounds like you lacked the fitness to get up it. Difficult to suggest how to address it as you have given us zero info about your current riding - but the answer is likely to be an increase in either miles, effort levels, or a combination of both.
  • marcusjbmarcusjb Posts: 2,412
    As above - it doesn't sound like you actually bonked (or you might not quite understand what bonking actually is).

    Bonking is the very sudden loss of all energy due to the fact you've depleted the glycogen stores of your body (not simply running out of power on a tough climb). You'll know if you've bonked - one of the worst feelings out there, feeling faint, shaking, just want to curl up and die).

    So assuming you didn't bonk, we're probably just talking about running out of legs on a tough climb.

    As above, more miles, more hard miles. And yep, the weight reduction would also help!
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    lower gears.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • I rode up Dartmeet in 2008 on the Dartmoor Classic, climbing next to a very large but powerful rider. So there are four or five approaches that you can take;

    1. fit lower gears, as suggested above. A 52,42,32 (yes, a triple) chainset might suffice
    2. become more powerful. Leg extension exercises in the gym, plus hill repeats on similarly steep terrain
    3. lose weight without losing skeletel muscle. Eat less sugar and less carbohydrate over the long-term
    4. honk better. Dartmeet, if I recall correctly, demands out-of-the-saddle efforts, so you need good honking technique
    5. use the full width of the road, climbing from kerb to kerb, rather than straight up
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,256
    2. become more powerful. Leg extension exercises in the gym, plus hill repeats on similarly steep terrain

    How will leg extensions get him up hills better?
  • 5. use the full width of the road, climbing from kerb to kerb, rather than straight up

    Are the roads closed for the event?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • mike101mike101 Posts: 42
    It's a tough climb! When I first tried I could get halfway up on a triple, now I can get up on a 39. Keep trying, you'll get fitter and lose weight. When you eventually crack it, you'll be really chuffed with yourself.
  • cyco2cyco2 Posts: 593
    Try a 34 tooth sprocket on the back. They can be bought in freewheel and cassette form. Using very low gears requires a lot of balancing.
    ...................................................................................................

    If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
    However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.
  • gryfon23gryfon23 Posts: 64
    It's an absolute pig of a climb.

    Ride more and this...

    3. lose weight without losing skeletel muscle. Eat less sugar and less carbohydrate over the long-term
  • wackawacka Posts: 169
    mike101 wrote:
    It's a tough climb! When I first tried I could get halfway up on a triple, now I can get up on a 39. Keep trying, you'll get fitter and lose weight. When you eventually crack it, you'll be really chuffed with yourself.
    I definitely need more strength in the legs and lose some kgs so I will conquer Dartmeet, it won't beat me again. Hill repeats, gym work and more miles it is!!
  • More strength will not (generally) make you better at cycling uphill. What you need to do is increase the power you can sustain up the hill. Unfortunately, people often think you can interchange the words power and strength and that they're synonymous with each other. They're not.

    A combination of various training intensities with 'some' focus on work from lactate threshold to VO2max will help increase your fitness. Using our training zone calculator (see the upper table for HR and lower one for power) zones 2 to 6 will significantly help you increase your fitness. see http://www.rstsport.com/event-training- ... -zones.htm

    what the 'some' would be in the paragraph above would depend on a multitude of factors that are specific to you (so i can't possibly guess them here)

    Ric
    Coach to Michael Freiberg - Track World Champion (Omnium) 2011
    Coach to James Hayden - Transcontinental Race winner 2017, and 2018
    Coach to Jeff Jones - 2011 BBAR winner and 12-hour record
    Check out our new website https://www.cyclecoach.com
  • jmillenjmillen Posts: 627
    A change of gearing will certainly help you, and simply riding more miles and more hills. Not a particularly technical solution I know, but it worked for me !

    How do you get on with the likes of Holne, Pork Hill, Haytor and Widecombe?
    2010 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Expert Carbon
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    Carrera TDF Ltd Commuter
  • wackawacka Posts: 169
    More strength will not (generally) make you better at cycling uphill. What you need to do is increase the power you can sustain up the hill. Unfortunately, people often think you can interchange the words power and strength and that they're synonymous with each other. They're not.

    A combination of various training intensities with 'some' focus on work from lactate threshold to VO2max will help increase your fitness. Using our training zone calculator (see the upper table for HR and lower one for power) zones 2 to 6 will significantly help you increase your fitness. see http://www.rstsport.com/event-training- ... -zones.htm

    what the 'some' would be in the paragraph above would depend on a multitude of factors that are specific to you (so i can't possibly guess them here)

    Ric
    Hi Ric

    I am riding using your training zones, but that beast of a hill just killed me! I live near Portsmouth so the only hills I meet are over the South Downs, not quite the calibre of Dartmoor!! I train by heart rate as am a mere mortal and can't stretch to the dizzy heights of power meters. I do have some cts training DVDs for power and climbing (brought pre Armstrong revelation), do you think they would help as they are climbing specific?
  • Hi Wacka

    Thanks for using our zones :).

    I think that having a power meter adds a certain amount of feedback and specificness (is that a real word?) to your training, but i by no means think they *must* be used! I coach some sans power meters.

    I too live just near the South Downs (Eastbourne) and there's some horrendously steep climbs near by (i've found two that are rated 25% so far). That said you don't necessarily need to ride over such steep climbs to get good at riding these steep climbs or less steep climbs. Just like you don't necessarily need to do much training up say Alpine climbs if you want to ride the Etape (etc).

    What you need to do is increase your power output (fitness) whether you can measure your power or not. This can be done on the flat roads, on the turbo, up shallow hills, or into headwinds (i don't think it'd be easy to do going downhill tho!).

    This is done by training at various intensities that stress you, especially at key points (e.g., FTP, MAP) so that these can be increased and your fitness goes up. These could include 20-min efforts at TT power/effort, and ~4-min efforts at MAP. How these fit together and what else you do (and indeed whether you even do these) will be specific to you and your needs and i can't guess that here.

    We can certainly help you out with either a Training Plan or coaching to improve your performance.

    Ric
    Coach to Michael Freiberg - Track World Champion (Omnium) 2011
    Coach to James Hayden - Transcontinental Race winner 2017, and 2018
    Coach to Jeff Jones - 2011 BBAR winner and 12-hour record
    Check out our new website https://www.cyclecoach.com
  • wackawacka Posts: 169
    Hi Wacka

    Thanks for using our zones :).

    I think that having a power meter adds a certain amount of feedback and specificness (is that a real word?) to your training, but i by no means think they *must* be used! I coach some sans power meters.

    I too live just near the South Downs (Eastbourne) and there's some horrendously steep climbs near by (i've found two that are rated 25% so far). That said you don't necessarily need to ride over such steep climbs to get good at riding these steep climbs or less steep climbs. Just like you don't necessarily need to do much training up say Alpine climbs if you want to ride the Etape (etc).

    What you need to do is increase your power output (fitness) whether you can measure your power or not. This can be done on the flat roads, on the turbo, up shallow hills, or into headwinds (i don't think it'd be easy to do going downhill tho!).

    This is done by training at various intensities that stress you, especially at key points (e.g., FTP, MAP) so that these can be increased and your fitness goes up. These could include 20-min efforts at TT power/effort, and ~4-min efforts at MAP. How these fit together and what else you do (and indeed whether you even do these) will be specific to you and your needs and i can't guess that here.

    We can certainly help you out with either a Training Plan or coaching to improve your performance.

    Ric

    Butser Hill, that was a beast! But yeh, my main issues is my fitness and weight the now! I do like your training zones, they work for me and with zone 1 I'm not getting overtaken by grannies with their shopping basket bikes!! My mum went to school in Eastbourne btw but I think it's knocked down now!!
  • no, Eastbourne is still standing, definitely not knocked down ;-). Give us a shout for a plan or coaching. we'll turn your fitness around

    [email protected]
    Coach to Michael Freiberg - Track World Champion (Omnium) 2011
    Coach to James Hayden - Transcontinental Race winner 2017, and 2018
    Coach to Jeff Jones - 2011 BBAR winner and 12-hour record
    Check out our new website https://www.cyclecoach.com
  • wackawacka Posts: 169
    no, Eastbourne is still standing, definitely not knocked down ;-). Give us a shout for a plan or coaching. we'll turn your fitness around

    [email protected]

    I would love to purchase a training plan Ric, but as I'm in the forces I can be moved left, right and centre. It would be hard for me to stick to a dedicated training plan!
  • You could move the sessions around? Or coaching, where you just tell us how you can train and we alter accordingly.

    (we've coached several military personnel previously, and people stationed in places such as Afghanistan)

    Ric
    Coach to Michael Freiberg - Track World Champion (Omnium) 2011
    Coach to James Hayden - Transcontinental Race winner 2017, and 2018
    Coach to Jeff Jones - 2011 BBAR winner and 12-hour record
    Check out our new website https://www.cyclecoach.com
  • wackawacka Posts: 169
    You could move the sessions around? Or coaching, where you just tell us how you can train and we alter accordingly.

    (we've coached several military personnel previously, and people stationed in places such as Afghanistan)

    Ric

    Respect, done four tours to the mighty Ghanas! I might take you up on a winter training plan post September as on a promotion course the now!
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