Near maximal HR training session.

morstar

I came across a turbo session online recently that involved 3 minute intervals at 95% WHR. I am far from elite but I'm a fit guy. This level of intensity seems way beyond my capacity.
In short, do I MTFU or is it a ridiculously hard effort?
I suspect the latter but maybe I'm just not trying hard enough.

Alex_Simmons/RST

For hard efforts that short, HR is pointless as a guide. Suggest using another way to gauge effort level, e.g. pace on constant gradient terrain, or wheel speed on a turbo.

morstar

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

For hard efforts that short, HR is pointless as a guide. Suggest using another way to gauge effort level, e.g. pace on constant gradient terrain, or wheel speed on a turbo.

I understand there's a lag in HR responding to the effort. Is that why you suggest it's no good?
I have only started using HR this year and have found it hugely beneficial. My hard workouts have become harder and my tempo or easier workouts more structured.

I haven't had a problem using it on the turbo as I combine a good feel for effort with where I know my HR will settles when it catches up. Maybe that's a little woolly but it seems to work OK.

The problem I had with this plan I found was that I simply dismissed it as totally unachievable. The question that leaves me with is...Am I simply not pushing myself hard enough?
I am interested if people believe it is an achievable workout, in which case I know I can step up a level or is it a nonsense plan submitted by someone who has underestimated their max HR or is just trying to appear macho with an outrageously difficult training plan posted online.

BTW, this is a turbo specific plan.

Alex_Simmons/RST

HR response lag is too great for HR to be of any use during such efforts. hence using other means to gauge effort, most of which are some form of power proxy (if you are not using power to help).

Done properly, HR will likely only reach level towards the end of such efforts. If it reaches level early on, it's highly likely you have way overcooked the initial part and actual work output will fade badly.

HR trace will look something like a row of shark fins.

HR is fine as a general guide for sub threshold work, but its utility declines once efforts become harder than threshold and/or become highly variable and/or of a shorter duration.

TheEnglishman

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

...
HR is fine as a general guide for sub threshold work, but its utility declines once efforts become harder than threshold and/or become highly variable and/or of a shorter duration.

So what do you suggest? Is a Power Meter the only way to go?

maryka

TheEnglishman wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

...
HR is fine as a general guide for sub threshold work, but its utility declines once efforts become harder than threshold and/or become highly variable and/or of a shorter duration.

So what do you suggest? Is a Power Meter the only way to go?

I'd use wheel speed as the indicator. Get up to speed within 15-20secs then hold it for the rest of the 3 min interval. The question is what speed... without a powermeter and knowledge of what your peak power for the duration is, it's a guess based mostly on perceived effort. If you're doing e.g., 5 x 3min intervals, the first should feel almost slightly easy for the duration (as in, at the end of the first interval you think "that was hard, but I probably could have gone a bit harder") but by the 4th or 5th interval you're struggling to hold that same speed and really having to work to keep the pedals turning at the speed you want.

For anyone doing regular and steady intervals on the turbo (not bursty sprint stuff or 10 sec on/10 sec off stuff) having a speed/power curve is handy, but then of course you need to work out your "power" zones for each intensity. As long as you keep everything the same (turbo clamp tightness, tire pressure) then it should be pretty comparable between workouts.

bernithebiker

morstar wrote:

I came across a turbo session online recently that involved 3 minute intervals at 95% WHR. I am far from elite but I'm a fit guy. This level of intensity seems way beyond my capacity.
In short, do I MTFU or is it a ridiculously hard effort?
I suspect the latter but maybe I'm just not trying hard enough.

Whilst I would agree that HR tailored workouts like these have their flaws, and it's great to get 'power' involved, I would think that for an amateur starting out on training sessions, they're a good way to go; simple, easy to understand and not too complicated.

Most sessions like these say 'build to 95%' or whatever of your max, so probably about 30 seconds or so of the 3 minutes will see your HR building up to the desired rate. 95% for me is 175, which is a 'very hard' effort. I have always found it hard to get so high on a turbo, whilst it's not difficult out on the bike.

So basically just go pretty much full pelt for as long as you can - if it's only 1 minute, so be it, see if you can make it 1.20 next time.

Alex_Simmons/RST

TheEnglishman wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

...
HR is fine as a general guide for sub threshold work, but its utility declines once efforts become harder than threshold and/or become highly variable and/or of a shorter duration.

So what do you suggest? Is a Power Meter the only way to go?

Refer to my original reply.

kettrinboy

The last turbo workout i did was 7 x 3 mins @~300 w with 2 mins rest inbetween ints which i could just about complete ie maintain the speed for the 7 ints , and the max HR on the last interval was about 94% of max, so for me to average 95% of my max for just one 3 min interval would be very hard if not impossible , and i,m not a beginner on a turbo having done ~750 miles during the last winter period, the OP doesnt say whether the object was to average 95% of max or to just to reach 95% during the 3 mins interval ,which would be a bit more doable i suppose.

mamba80

To OP in your Q u said 95% of WHR - Working HR ? was that a typo?

the term, working HR is not your max hr, its ur Max HR - Resting HR, giving a completely different level of excertion.