Training and hitting the bonk

77stumpy

Hi
Been riding on the roads for a few years now,doing 30-40-50 miles trips, which i've been fine with and hitting averages off between 16-19.5 mph on the 30 and 40 miles rides .

but i'm doing a 100 miles on the 16th September so I've up training and doing 65 miles trips, but both times now have hit the wall big time at 50 ish miles..

before my rides in the morning i have a goodness shake
i take this with me on my ride
have a zero tablet in 750 ml of water in my bottle
take two gels and one sis bar.
also on Saturday i had a coffee break at 30 mile with a small cake.



Thanks

sloppyschleckonds

77stumpy wrote:

also on Saturday i had a coffee break at 30 mile with a small cake.

What cake did you have?

maryka

Try this on your next long ride: start your ride on an empty stomach (neutral blood sugar), having not eaten anything for ~3 hours prior. If it's an early morning ride, just have an espresso or black coffee/tea first when you get up, then set off without breakfast. After 10-15 min of riding, eat a bar or two, a banana, say ~300 calories. Eat again within an hour, another ~200-300 calories. Repeat for the rest of the ride, eat more if you feel hungrier. Drink water as you like, or sports drink if that's your thing. If you have a coffee stop, that's ok, but keep it short, 20-30 min tops. Report back how it goes.

frisbee

77stumpy wrote:

before my rides in the morning i have a goodness shake

Just the shake or breakfast as well?

chrisaonabike

I find for rides up to 30 miles I can quite comfortably do them without eating anything since the night before.

Longer than that, I need breakfast and to eat regularly during the ride. I have a biggish bite of flapjack after the first hour and then at 45-60 minute intervals.

If you are literally running out of glycogen, rather than just going out too fast and getting tired, you're not eating enough.

77stumpy

frisbee wrote:

77stumpy wrote:

before my rides in the morning i have a goodness shake

Just the shake or breakfast as well?

just a shake

77stumpy

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

77stumpy wrote:

also on Saturday i had a coffee break at 30 mile with a small cake.

What cake did you have?

Granola Bar I'm trying to lose weight....

77stumpy

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

I find for rides up to 30 miles I can quite comfortably do them without eating anything since the night before.

Longer than that, I need breakfast and to eat regularly during the ride. I have a biggish bite of flapjack after the first hour and then at 45-60 minute intervals.

If you are literally running out of glycogen, rather than just going out too fast and getting tired, you're not eating enough.

I do the same if its only 30 miles,just two mugs of coffee and that's it .
and for the ride i just take one jordon bar and one gels.

saturday ride was a group ride,,the pace was medium, so was just pushing hard on the hill for the first 30 miles.
like i do when i ride on my own,

at 40 miles the group split into two groups i went with the faster group, but we all were together and pace was about 17 average which i'm OK with.

but coming up to 10 miles from home i had nothing left ,and just drop off the back off the group?

two weeks before i i was out on my own,i got to 55 miles and had to stop and buy a shake.
but had only took my 2nd gel at 45 miles.

maryka

77stumpy wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

77stumpy wrote:

also on Saturday i had a coffee break at 30 mile with a small cake.

What cake did you have?

Granola Bar I'm trying to lose weight....

On the ride is not the place to skimp on calories and try to lose weight. Eat during and immediately afterwards, use better fork control for the other 20 hours of the day if you want to slim down.

phreak

Don't forget that you're upping your training. It's supposed to be harder, that's why you're doing it. If you're pushing the boundaries of your fitness then I'd say that's the first place to look rather than assuming you'd easily make it if you ate more.

If you're riding with a group that's a little bit too fast for you, either suck it up and stay with them as far as you can each time in the hope you'll improve, or go for some rides on your own to get the miles in at your own pace.

If you want to improve your food/diet though, it's probably not a bad idea to figure out how much you're eating vs how much you're burning and trying to find a balance between fueling yourself for the ride whilst also losing weight.

sloppyschleckonds

77stumpy wrote:

saturday ride was a group ride,,the pace was medium, so was just pushing hard on the hill for the first 30 miles.
like i do when i ride on my own,

at 40 miles the group split into two groups i went with the faster group, but we all were together and pace was about 17 average which i'm OK with.

It may help if you can describe how hard you are working, endurance, tempo, threshold pace?

frisbee

77stumpy wrote:

frisbee wrote:

77stumpy wrote:

before my rides in the morning i have a goodness shake

Just the shake or breakfast as well?

just a shake

A protein shake isn't really the best fuel for 3 hours of exercise. I would have at least had a bowel of cereal.

ozzzyosborn206

phreak wrote:

Don't forget that you're upping your training. It's supposed to be harder, that's why you're doing it. If you're pushing the boundaries of your fitness then I'd say that's the first place to look rather than assuming you'd easily make it if you ate more.

If you're riding with a group that's a little bit too fast for you, either suck it up and stay with them as far as you can each time in the hope you'll improve, or go for some rides on your own to get the miles in at your own pace.

If you want to improve your food/diet though, it's probably not a bad idea to figure out how much you're eating vs how much you're burning and trying to find a balance between fueling yourself for the ride whilst also losing weight.

Thats madness, you don't 'bonk' because you are riding at a level above you, you just get tired and you can't keep up. When you bonk it is because you don't have enough fuel for the ride. Next ride have a proper breakfast, bowl of cereal/porridge would be best, then on your ride take some food weather its a few energy/cereal bars, banana, hot cross buns whatever takes your fancy. Then try to eat something every hour, don't try to not eat on the bike to loose weight, as has already been said what you eat for the rest of the day/week is more important. Oh and i would recommend taking more drink with you, in winter when i am doing longer, lower level rides I find high4:1 gets me alot further on less food than ordinary drink/squash

chrisaonabike

frisbee wrote:

I would have at least had a bowel of cereal.

:shock:

maryka

I think the OP needs to clarify his bonk a bit better.

A true bonk has you hitting a wall and hardly able to pedal, let alone keep up. It's due to glycogen shortage.

Blowing up, running out of puff to keep up with your group, etc. is not a bonk. It's due to not being fit/fast enough.

Which one happened?

stueys

If you've been riding for a while to hit the wall at 50 miles sounds odd. Are you dieting as well before the ride day?

phreak

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

phreak wrote:

Don't forget that you're upping your training. It's supposed to be harder, that's why you're doing it. If you're pushing the boundaries of your fitness then I'd say that's the first place to look rather than assuming you'd easily make it if you ate more.

If you're riding with a group that's a little bit too fast for you, either suck it up and stay with them as far as you can each time in the hope you'll improve, or go for some rides on your own to get the miles in at your own pace.

If you want to improve your food/diet though, it's probably not a bad idea to figure out how much you're eating vs how much you're burning and trying to find a balance between fueling yourself for the ride whilst also losing weight.

Thats madness, you don't 'bonk' because you are riding at a level above you, you just get tired and you can't keep up. When you bonk it is because you don't have enough fuel for the ride. Next ride have a proper breakfast, bowl of cereal/porridge would be best, then on your ride take some food weather its a few energy/cereal bars, banana, hot cross buns whatever takes your fancy. Then try to eat something every hour, don't try to not eat on the bike to loose weight, as has already been said what you eat for the rest of the day/week is more important. Oh and i would recommend taking more drink with you, in winter when i am doing longer, lower level rides I find high4:1 gets me alot further on less food than ordinary drink/squash

That's assuming it was 'the bonk', which given the short length of the ride and the fact he had food with him, would seem unlikely.

I suspect, as maryka says, that it was not being able to keep up with his group rather than not being able to turn a pedal over at all.

team47b

maryka wrote:

start your ride on an empty stomach (neutral blood sugar), having not eaten anything for ~3 hours prior.

What's neutral blood sugar?

dw300

+1 for knowing the ride intensity. You could ride at 80%+ of your max heart rate for 2 hrs, but dont expect to be able to do it for 5-6. Youd probably want to be doing most of it at 60-70% so your burning off fat and not anihilating your glycogen stores.

Also, carbing up could take up to 2-3 days if your glycogen is constantly depleated from trying to loose weight. You store maybe 1500-2000kcals worth, you cant fill that with a bowl of porridge on the morning of the ride.

Cliffs ..

Cycle slower. Eat more.

maryka

Very simplistically, under normal circumstances, you eat carbs > blood sugars rise > insulin rises in response > blood sugars drop > brain signals body to eat more > you eat again > blood sugars rise again, repeat.

Happens when you exercise too but less dramatically. Not having elevated blood sugar or insulin when you begin exercising (especially for endurance events) means your blood sugars rise more naturally as your heart rate increases, and the insulin response to taking in calories is less pronounced.

Disclaimer: I'm not a scientist, I will try to find some links for this though. But for long rides, that's what works for me. Starting on an empty stomach then eating 10-15 min into the ride then eating as per usual keeps me from bonking.

gsxrian

Hi this is 77stumpy

it started with getting a mild headache, then my legs had nothing in them they went like jelly, the pace the group were riding at wasn't pushing me hard.

been thinking about this all weekend,on the Friday i didn't eat a lot all day,just mainly protein.
will go back to having a breakfast again when i do my next 65 mile ride on saturday.

would like to say thanks for all your help..

Ian