New Road Policing Measures ...

jonnyboy77

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23713732

Among the offences police are expected to focus on are:

• Driving too close to the vehicle in front

• Failing to give way at a junction (not requiring evasive action by another driver)

• Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic

• Being in the wrong lane and pushing into a queue on a roundabout

• Lane discipline, such as needlessly hogging the middle or outside lanes

• Inappropriate speed

• Wheel-spins, handbrake turns and other careless manoeuvres

No mention of agression towards cyclists or indeed knocking them off bikes? <= my best suprised face ...

- Jon

asprilla

Loving the comments section, as usual.

rolf_f

Asprilla wrote:

Loving the comments section, as usual.

The late Ayrton Senna has it nailed - "You are all idiots"

meanredspider

What is referred to by

• Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic

Traffic queueing to do what?

I assume this isn't referring to queues of cars (see "driving too close to the car in front") that sit behind a 40mph lorry down the A9 with absolutely no intention of thinking about overtaking despite plenty of clear and safe opportunities. They often don't leave a gap large enough to pass just some of them while it is safe to do so - or, worse still, close up the gap.

Gallywomack

So essentially, everything that antisocial bell-ends with over-inflated senses of entitlement like to do behind the wheel? Sounds good.

There was a segment on ITN news last night about the London crackdown on cars in ASLs and cyclists RLJing, anyone catch it? Didn't think it did us many favours, seemed to over-emphasise cyclists RLJing (although in fairness, they set up a camera at some lights and obviously got film of several cyclists RLJing so it's not as if they're making anything up - the ones they showed were all your nodder-chopper types, out of interest - no lycra!). And the first example they showed of a car in an ASL was a clear case of the lights changing, forcing the car which had already crossed the first line to stop in the ASL rather than continue through a red. It'd be nice to watch a news report about road/cycling matters that suggested the reporters had a clue what they were on about.

Gallywomack

meanredspider wrote:

What is referred to by

• Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic

Traffic queueing to do what?

I assume this isn't referring to queues of cars (see "driving too close to the car in front") that sit behind a 40mph lorry down the A9 with absolutely no intention of thinking about overtaking despite plenty of clear and safe opportunities. They often don't leave a gap large enough to pass just some of them while it is safe to do so - or, worse still, close up the gap.

I think more likely it means in towns where traffic is queued up for lights and there is another available lane, say for turning left or right, which tossers zip up then cut back into the queue.

rubertoe

Gallywomack wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

What is referred to by

• Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic

Traffic queueing to do what?

I assume this isn't referring to queues of cars (see "driving too close to the car in front") that sit behind a 40mph lorry down the A9 with absolutely no intention of thinking about overtaking despite plenty of clear and safe opportunities. They often don't leave a gap large enough to pass just some of them while it is safe to do so - or, worse still, close up the gap.

I think more likely it means in towns where traffic is queued up for lights and there is another available lane, say for turning left or right, which tossers zip up then cut back into the queue.

Which caused me to crash.., Gits.

I am so sick of RLJers and Cars sitting in ASL's. really do wish that there was much more done to curb both, these are the two things that get my goat more than anything else.

bigmat

meanredspider wrote:

What is referred to by

• Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic

Traffic queueing to do what?

I assume this isn't referring to queues of cars (see "driving too close to the car in front") that sit behind a 40mph lorry down the A9 with absolutely no intention of thinking about overtaking despite plenty of clear and safe opportunities. They often don't leave a gap large enough to pass just some of them while it is safe to do so - or, worse still, close up the gap.

Oh well in that case, best to just force the overtake and bully your way in front.

It all seems a bit too subjective for my liking. I can see your point about what amounts to "pushing into a queue of traffic" and what doesn't.

As for "Being in the wrong lane and pushing into a queue on a roundabout", we've all been there. There are roundabouts where it is impossible to know which lane you need to be in unless you have driven them before. "Pushing in" isn't good, but then refusing to let people who have got caught in the wrong lane move isn't good either. Can't people just have some manners and a bit of empathy?

Pufftmw

Sure I saw something on the BBC News and they had pulled over a black cabbie for ASL infringement and he claimed complete ignorance of the law on that issue :roll:

Anyway, they claimed to have issued 60 fixed penalties to motorists for this but also balanced it by saying they'd issued 50 fixed penalties to cyclists for RLJ - good.

ManiaMuse

BigMat wrote:

As for "Being in the wrong lane and pushing into a queue on a roundabout", we've all been there. There are roundabouts where it is impossible to know which lane you need to be in unless you have driven them before. "Pushing in" isn't good, but then refusing to let people who have got caught in the wrong lane move isn't good either. Can't people just have some manners and a bit of empathy?

Hopefully the police will use some common sense. I think it's usually obvious when someone is not sure what lane they are meant for a roundabout compared to when a local blitzes down the empty lane at 40mph+ and then indicates right at the head of the queue to barge in.

asprilla

ManiaMuse wrote:

BigMat wrote:

As for "Being in the wrong lane and pushing into a queue on a roundabout", we've all been there. There are roundabouts where it is impossible to know which lane you need to be in unless you have driven them before. "Pushing in" isn't good, but then refusing to let people who have got caught in the wrong lane move isn't good either. Can't people just have some manners and a bit of empathy?

Hopefully the police will use some common sense. I think it's usually obvious when someone is not sure what lane they are meant for a roundabout compared to when a local blitzes down the empty lane at 40mph+ and then indicates right at the head of the queue to barge in.

Can we just be clear that these aren't new offences and the policing of them hasn't changed either. The only difference is that they can now be penalised at the time of the incident rather then being limited to a verbal warning our court. It's unlikely that there will be a massive change in the number of people being stopped for these things. There will probably be some increase because it will now be worth the officer's time to actually pull someone over but it won't be massive.

veronese68

I had to drive in this morning. As I was driving round the Kingston one way system there was a twunt in a Celica that had pushed his way half into the left turn lane that was queuing, whilst the two right turn lanes were moving freely. He then realised he could get further up so pulled back into the middle lane and passed about 10 cars before trying to barge his way back in again. The WVM he tried to push in front of had other ideas and the last I saw of it he was sat in the middle lane indicating left with a large white van where he wanted to be.
I think that's the kind of guy that this is intended for.

asprilla

Confuciousfred of the BBC Comments Section wrote:

The minimum stopping distance at 70 mph is 96 metres. If you are following a vehicle and wish to overtake you must pull into an outside lane no less than 96 metres away from said vehicle. Once you have passed you must allow 96 metres before returning to starting lane so it is legal to hog the lane where slow moving vehicles are 200 metres apart. Has anyone thought this out properly..

Genius is alive and well.

Kieran_Burns

One thing that used to bother me is people waiting until the last minute to pull into a merging lane (for example on the m'way when there are roadworks.)

Right until someone pointed out that it actually helps with traffic flow. If people merge in turn at the merge point (or just before), rather than as soon as they see the signs warning of a lane being closed; the road volume is increased as you have multiple lanes available for traffic rather than just one.

I started seeing 'merge in turn' signs appearing on the approach to roadworks after that and had to agree, it does make more sense.

Wrath Rob

I saw this in action this morning, on Embankment at the lights by Embankment tube. A lady on a Brompton schoaled to the front, stopped over the white line and then gut a talking to by the police man who was stood there, fair enough it was a warning and not a fine. Unfortunately the police (there was an office stationed on the other side of the lights, but in the middle of the carriage way) completely missed the large tipper lorry and white van RLJ'ing the left turn onto Embankment :roll:

Nice idea, shame about the execution.

veronese68

Asprilla wrote:

Confuciousfred of the BBC Comments Section wrote:

The minimum stopping distance at 70 mph is 96 metres. If you are following a vehicle and wish to overtake you must pull into an outside lane no less than 96 metres away from said vehicle. Once you have passed you must allow 96 metres before returning to starting lane so it is legal to hog the lane where slow moving vehicles are 200 metres apart. Has anyone thought this out properly..

Genius is alive and well.

May be necessary for this particular genius as the thinking time would be dramatically increased. Do they still show thinking time as part of the stopping distances?

BelgianBeerGeek

Kieran_Burns wrote:

One thing that used to bother me is people waiting until the last minute to pull into a merging lane (for example on the m'way when there are roadworks.)

Right until someone pointed out that it actually helps with traffic flow. If people merge in turn at the merge point (or just before), rather than as soon as they see the signs warning of a lane being closed; the road volume is increased as you have multiple lanes available for traffic rather than just one.

I started seeing 'merge in turn' signs appearing on the approach to roadworks after that and had to agree, it does make more sense.

I've seen this on the continent (Switzerland, I think) where they often have a more sensible approach. The zipper (merge in turn) sign works a treat.

The Rookie

At one point it was proposed to introduce it into the highways code that traffic should stay in 2 lanes and then merge in turn at the actual pinch point, never got any further though unfortunately.

asprilla

The problem with 'merge in turn' signs is that frequently the road is straight.

meanredspider

BigMat wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

What is referred to by

• Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic

Traffic queueing to do what?

I assume this isn't referring to queues of cars (see "driving too close to the car in front") that sit behind a 40mph lorry down the A9 with absolutely no intention of thinking about overtaking despite plenty of clear and safe opportunities. They often don't leave a gap large enough to pass just some of them while it is safe to do so - or, worse still, close up the gap.

Oh well in that case, best to just force the overtake and bully your way in front.

I know - I plan to fit missiles :twisted:

Trouble is, I think that's what people think you are doing. The A9 is about 120 miles with about 20 miles total of dual (which is often taken up by "elephant racing", slow cars overtaking even slower cars, or, quite often, simply being dug up :roll: ). The difference between doing 40mph and 60mph is a whole hour. If those not planning on overtaking (and this road really illustrates just how totally hopeless people are at overtaking - it's not taught or in the driving test) just left an adequate gap (as the Highway code & the road signs tell them), everyone would be happier. As it is, some numpty at the front is 3" behind the back of the Tesco lorry and can see nothing. I've been convinced loads of times I'm going to witness a horrible head-on (the A9 is infamous for them).

What has "shocked" me about the driver interviews that I've heard during the coverage of these new laws is the ignorance demonstrated. Even if people don't have to pass a driving test every 5 years, they should be made to pass a written exam to demonstrate their knowledge.

keyser__soze

Pufftmw wrote:

Sure I saw something on the BBC News and they had pulled over a black cabbie for ASL infringement and he claimed complete ignorance of the law on that issue :roll:

Had a couple of 40+ something guys rabbiting on about this in the lift at work, stating how appalling it was that ASLs may be enforced as no-one had been told about these 'brand new' rules. Had to bite my tongue, but it does make me wonder if some kind of advertising campaign from TfL/DfT would help.

keyser__soze

Kieran_Burns wrote:

One thing that used to bother me is people waiting until the last minute to pull into a merging lane (for example on the m'way when there are roadworks.)

Right until someone pointed out that it actually helps with traffic flow. If people merge in turn at the merge point (or just before), rather than as soon as they see the signs warning of a lane being closed; the road volume is increased as you have multiple lanes available for traffic rather than just one.

This only works efficiently when cars are travelling slowly and the merge is due to two or more lanes going into one rather than because of a junction or fork in the road. Greater speed and it makes more sense overall for drivers to merge into spaces well in advance, and if it's merging to leave at a junction using the outer lanes and pulling in/merging last minute causes bunching at the junction and slows through traffic, massively reducing capacity.

navt

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

One thing that used to bother me is people waiting until the last minute to pull into a merging lane (for example on the m'way when there are roadworks.)

Right until someone pointed out that it actually helps with traffic flow. If people merge in turn at the merge point (or just before), rather than as soon as they see the signs warning of a lane being closed; the road volume is increased as you have multiple lanes available for traffic rather than just one.

I started seeing 'merge in turn' signs appearing on the approach to roadworks after that and had to agree, it does make more sense.

I've seen this on the continent (Switzerland, I think) where they often have a more sensible approach. The zipper (merge in turn) sign works a treat.

Zipper exactly. Works fine if you execute your merge so as not to impede the flow of traffic. Counter-productive if you have to slam on your brakes because some numpty decides to squeeze in at the very last moment.

navt

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Y-RFNThz1es

This from the news item.

sketchley

Keyser__Soze wrote:

Pufftmw wrote:

Sure I saw something on the BBC News and they had pulled over a black cabbie for ASL infringement and he claimed complete ignorance of the law on that issue :roll:

Had a couple of 40+ something guys rabbiting on about this in the lift at work, stating how appalling it was that ASLs may be enforced as no-one had been told about these 'brand new' rules. Had to bite my tongue, but it does make me wonder if some kind of advertising campaign from TfL/DfT would help.

I believe that when you sign the form to get a drvining license it's on the condition you stay upto date and current on the highway code.... You should have mentioned that!

moarspeed

jonnyboy77 wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23713732

• Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic

For a start these new rules seem to mostly target things that most highway code ignorant people find mildly annoying.

I know what this actually refers to, but it's only going to result in more vigilantism in situations where a dual carriageway merges down to one lane. It's common sense that using both lanes and merging in turn (as per 134 highway code) is the best way to compact congestion, preventing it spreading back for miles and blocking the entire city.

But what does this mean for cyclists and bikers? If these rules target stuff that annoys people a bit, will filtering become an offence?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Among the offences police are expected to focus on are:

• Inappropriate speed

<My motorist's hat on>

WTF is "inappropriate speed? It can't be speeding over the speed limit, as that is already an offence.

So what is it, and by what criteria is speed going to be judged "inappropriate"?

sketchley

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Among the offences police are expected to focus on are:

• Inappropriate speed

<My motorist's hat on>

WTF is "inappropriate speed? It can't be speeding over the speed limit, as that is already an offence.

So what is it, and by what criteria is speed going to be judged "inappropriate"?

70mph in thick fog and rain on the motorway? Within the speed limit but inappropriate for the conditions.

rick_chasey

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Among the offences police are expected to focus on are:

• Inappropriate speed

<My motorist's hat on>

WTF is "inappropriate speed? It can't be speeding over the speed limit, as that is already an offence.

So what is it, and by what criteria is speed going to be judged "inappropriate"?

Driving unreasonably (therefore unsafely) slow, presumably.

patrickf

Sketchley wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Among the offences police are expected to focus on are:

• Inappropriate speed

<My motorist's hat on>

WTF is "inappropriate speed? It can't be speeding over the speed limit, as that is already an offence.

So what is it, and by what criteria is speed going to be judged "inappropriate"?

70mph in thick fog and rain on the motorway? Within the speed limit but inappropriate for the conditions.

I guess the real question here was, where is "appropriate" speed defined? It could very well be that you and the police officer disagree on "appropriate".

Would 60 be appropriate? 50? 40? 30?

It seems we're getting into the realms of subjective offences without actually having actual figures backing up the point where you can be prosecuted.

patrickf

Sketchley wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Among the offences police are expected to focus on are:

• Inappropriate speed

<My motorist's hat on>

WTF is "inappropriate speed? It can't be speeding over the speed limit, as that is already an offence.

So what is it, and by what criteria is speed going to be judged "inappropriate"?

70mph in thick fog and rain on the motorway? Within the speed limit but inappropriate for the conditions.

I guess the real question here was, where is "appropriate" speed defined? It could very well be that you and the police officer disagree on "appropriate".

Would 60 be appropriate? 50? 40? 30?

It seems we're getting into the realms of subjective offences without actually having actual figures backing up the point where you can be prosecuted.