Desalination of sea water in places like Greece

the playing mantis

sort you finances out then!!!

tiredofwhiners

Alitogata wrote:

As I wrote above, don't trust what you read from people who don't live in Greece.. Lot of propaganda...

No, don't trust anyone who lives in Greece would be a fairer situation. As serial tax avoiders defaulters, criminals and out and out crooks, the entire Greek workforce cannot be trusted one bit.

Alitogata wrote:

Who says these things?

The EU after years of analysing the Greek markets - the only people who say 'politics' are the Greeks themselves who still to this day, refuse to accept their entire structure is corrupt.

Pharmaceuticals - yes, the prices are printed on the packets but the prices are astronomical and the EU has taken specific action against the cabal in Greece that keep the price high. Generics are unavailable unless on the black market. Medicine companies are refused permission to sell in Greece unless they charge high prices to pay for the kickbacks. The EU and the IMF said this after extensive research. Since the EU broke the Greek rules down, the pharma bill has dropped 40% but still the Greeks will not let supermarkets sell basic medicines - why, because someone has their hand in the till and doesn't want to lose their kickbacks from the pharmacies. Why wouldn't any average Greek citizen want cheaper generic medicines from a supermarket at low prices ?

Alitogata wrote:

Doctors do have to pay income tax about the 40% of their income. If some of them avoid to pay it, doesn't mean that they all avoid to do so, or that is not required to do so.

So why did the EU and the IMF target a long list of protected job categories such as doctors who do not pay income tax then ? Ah yes, everyone else misunderstood the Greek tax system, and everyone else is incorrect except the Greeks

Alitogata wrote:

No barbers are retired at 50 and being a barber is not included in dangerous professions. ( ha ha ha .. who says these rubbish!! For gods shake).

Of course its utterly stupid, but its true. These are the facts of the Greek tax code, established by the EU auditors as solid reasons why the Greek tax take is so poor (apart from the rampant bribery of tax collectors one third for me, one third for him and one third for the taxman) . Also found in the tax code system are many other 'unhealthy' jobs allowing retirement at 50. Never believe a Greek on what ist like in Greece - believe a source outside of Greece with no axe to grind;

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 78789.html

Alitogata wrote:

Public sector workers pay as anybody else. It is well know though, that those who don't pay are the high ranked public sector workers who got their jobs from their political connections, many of the politicians who are in their majority totally corrupted, and lot of high income businessman who have political connections as well. Ordinary, everyday people, pays much more than its income can support, and this is the reason why people suffers now in this recession.

No, people are suffering because in the first instance, many low level public sector workers had (past tense) two jobs - they would turn up for work at one, clock in, leave and go and do the second job without declaring it, then return to the first one to sign out. These are very well documented and as a Greek you know this to be true - the sad thing is that so many Greeks aspire to this as a lifestyle.

I am sure there are plenty of crooked businessman but none so crooked as an entire country of people who think they can take out of the tax system and not pay in at some point. Most people in the public sector should never have been given their job in the first place - there was no tax money to pay for it as they used borrowed money from the EU to fund the job without worrying how the borrowed money would be paid.

The Greek people still do not understand that in order to pay out benefits be it a job, a pension, an allowance, they they themselves have to pay in now and every other year forever more. Too many expect to take money out be it ina job which cannot be funded by taxation, or a pension for life, when nobody is paying for it. The Greek people are understandably upset but after 10-20 years of running up huge debts (the value is still staggeringly huge) the time has come to pay the bill. The difference here is the person who is owed the money isn't another Greek who can be bribed into forgetting or forgiving. Its the taxpayers of the Northern countries who live within their means and save their money for their future. Its the first time that the Greeks have not been able to wheedle their way out of their obligations. people say that it was all the fault of the politicians - but hey, you voted them in and were happy to have all your roads rebuilt and country modernised with EU money weren't you ?

On the day that it all gets too much and/or Syriza wins, then the cash points will suddenly be empty and then the Greeks will find what real austerity is like - not enough hard currency to buy enough oil & gas to heat the country in winter, not enough hard currency to buy technology to run the economy, and never trusted again with debt. Try running a country with no money - it'll be less trusted than Albania. Who will accept a Drachma to pay for a car, or a computer ? At least the young can leave and go to Europe and avoid suffering the impact of their parents, grandparents and great grand parents corruption and outright theft.

If the Greek people don't like what they call 'austerity' now, try defaulting and/or borrowing money from anyone else other than the Troika. Plain fact is that the Greeks simply cannot be trusted with money and only the Troika would lend then a penny - admittedly for their own self-interest but hey, its their money and they decide the terms. The Greek governments of the past have proven to be utterly untrustworthy. the current one is gaining real credibility at a high level however most of theMP's are still acting like small time petty crooks with openly vested interest not in the best interest of the Greek people, but solely in keeping their own jobs by pandering to self-interest groups who just want someone to fund their unaffordable lifestyle.

10 years living with these people in Thessaloniki taught me this. Its why I get so annoyed about Greeks who complain and blame everyone else claiming that they have been misunderstood or are innocent. Nobody under the age of 10 is innocent in Greece. they're all bent as a five bob note

Alitogata

PROPAGANDA AND PREJUDICE
a novel written by tiredofwhiners

tiredofwhiners wrote:

No, don't trust anyone who lives in Greece would be a fairer situation. As serial tax avoiders defaulters, criminals and out and out crooks, the entire Greek workforce cannot be trusted one bit.

Let's start with a impression seeking prologue. A generalization. Greeks are all criminals. ( so you were living among criminals for ten years, but you manage to get back safe in your country.. Congratulations Bruce ( Willis).

The EU after years of analysing the Greek markets - the only people who say 'politics' are the Greeks themselves who still to this day, refuse to accept their entire structure is corrupt.

Pharmaceuticals - yes, the prices are printed on the packets but the prices are astronomical and the EU has taken specific action against the cabal in Greece that keep the price high. Generics are unavailable unless on the black market.

Which black market? As I wrote above generics are available in pharmacies.

Medicine companies are refused permission to sell in Greece unless they charge high prices to pay for the kickbacks. The EU and the IMF said this after extensive research. Since the EU broke the Greek rules down, the pharma bill has dropped 40% but still the Greeks will not let supermarkets sell basic medicines - why, because someone has their hand in the till and doesn't want to lose their kickbacks from the pharmacies. Why wouldn't any average Greek citizen want cheaper generic medicines from a supermarket at low prices ?

Because super markets are food and other stuff selling stores and don't specialize in medicines. The owner of each Pharmacy here in Greece must have a University Degree in Pharmaceutics which I find it quite right by the time that any butcher or greengrocer must be same specialized in his own job. Medicines are not the kind of usual consumer products to be sold on super markets shelves.

So why did the EU and the IMF target a long list of protected job categories such as doctors who do not pay income tax then ? Ah yes, everyone else misunderstood the Greek tax system, and everyone else is incorrect except the Greeks

Doctors have to pay income tax as any other person in this country. If some of them don't pay, this doesn't end up to the conclusion that Doctors are not obliged to pay. neither that all of them don't pay because either they don't have to, or they don't want to. THERE ARE DOCTORS WHO DO PAY AND THERE OTHERS THAT DON'T BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO.

The targeting of working groups through generalizations and false claims has become a standard practice when EU or IMF want to justify their usually unfair decisions.

Of course its utterly stupid, but its true. These are the facts of the Greek tax code, established by the EU auditors as solid reasons why the Greek tax take is so poor (apart from the rampant bribery of tax collectors one third for me, one third for him and one third for the taxman) . Also found in the tax code system are many other 'unhealthy' jobs allowing retirement at 50. Never believe a Greek on what ist like in Greece - believe a source outside of Greece with no axe to grind;

It is interesting how every paragraph of your post has in the end a conclusion that all Greeks are criminals, or liars. However the barber next door is 68 y.o and still working..If he could take his pension earlier, why he hasn't done this for 18 years??

No, people are suffering because in the first instance, many low level public sector workers had (past tense) two jobs - they would turn up for work at one, clock in, leave and go and do the second job without declaring it, then return to the first one to sign out. These are very well documented and as a Greek you know this to be true - the sad thing is that so many Greeks aspire to this as a lifestyle.

So Greeks are not that lazy in the end of the day, as some mainly German newspapers had claimed.. But then if this is true and all Greeks had double jobs, we end up in the following conclusions:
1/That the salaries from their first job is not enough to support their families and so they need to have a second job.
2/That they work harder and more hours than any other EU citizen.
or 3/ ( ha ha .. something tells me that this will be your favorite choice ) are greedyyyyy, and like to have each and everyone of them two jobs, ( they are workaholics) in order to have more more more money..!!


I

am sure there are plenty of crooked businessman but none so crooked as an entire country of people who think they can take out of the tax system and not pay in at some point. Most people in the public sector should never have been given their job in the first place - there was no tax money to pay for it as they used borrowed money from the EU to fund the job without worrying how the borrowed money would be paid.

Another sensationalistic ( is there such word of I just invent one) generalization. A whole country of crooked people..

The Greek people still do not understand that in order to pay out benefits be it a job, a pension, an allowance, they they themselves have to pay in now and every other year forever more. Too many expect to take money out be it ina job which cannot be funded by taxation, or a pension for life, when nobody is paying for it. The Greek people are understandably upset but after 10-20 years of running up huge debts (the value is still staggeringly huge) the time has come to pay the bill. The difference here is the person who is owed the money isn't another Greek who can be bribed into forgetting or forgiving. Its the taxpayers of the Northern countries who live within their means and save their money for their future. Its the first time that the Greeks have not been able to wheedle their way out of their obligations. people say that it was all the fault of the politicians - but hey, you voted them in and were happy to have all your roads rebuilt and country modernised with EU money weren't you ?

My father worked in private sector from 1952 to 2008. From 20 y.o till his 76 th year of age. All these years he paid about the 40% of his income in order to get later in his life his pension, have health care etc. He now takes 800 euros for his cut pension, money that he had already paid, for whole 58 years and with that money he has to support my mother ( aged 76) and recently me who I'm unemployed for 2 and a half years aged 45.

I really don't know what the Northern tax payers had to do with this, because my father's ( now cut ) pension, and my job in private sector, were never depended on public sector. Especially the money that my father should have get as pension according to his age, working positions, ( all in private sector) are money that he has already paid, for all his working life.

Same for me that I worked as Graphic Artist, in private sector, and now I can't even claim an unemployment benefit, which I should, as I don't have any other means to support myself thought I paid for 25 years all the ( I'm not sure how is called in English) fees in order to claim benefits in case I've lost my job.

So..Were are the money that the Northern taxpayers pay, going, in order to support Greece? Obviously don't go to the people, don't get in the market, don't create jobs in order to revive economy. Northern taxpayers pay for sure money, but what is this useful thing that their money do? Were do they go?? So the next time, ( you the Northern taxpayers) that you'll hear someone tell you that you pay money in order to save Greek people, ( you know these corrupted, crooked, liars and criminals), just ask yourself if those who say these to you, are more corrupted because they obviously have every reason to be this way..

On the day that it all gets too much and/or Syriza wins, then the cash points will suddenly be empty and then the Greeks will find what real austerity is like - not enough hard currency to buy enough oil & gas to heat the country in winter, not enough hard currency to buy technology to run the economy, and never trusted again with debt. Try running a country with no money - it'll be less trusted than Albania. Who will accept a Drachma to pay for a car, or a computer ? At least the young can leave and go to Europe and avoid suffering the impact of their parents, grandparents and great grand parents corruption and outright theft.

Now you calling my parents thieves. As you stayed so long in Greece I"m sure that you know how to read, ( and this will be the proof that you indeed stayed for ten years in Thessaloniki ) what I will write below..

Πόσο μαλάκας είσαι;

If the Greek people don't like what they call 'austerity' now, try defaulting and/or borrowing money from anyone else other than the Troika.

Do you know that one of the terms of the Memorandum that Greek Government singed is that the country is not allowed to borrow money from any one else except Troika. The Memorandum was signed without any referendum or voters approval.

Plain fact is that the Greeks simply cannot be trusted with money and only the Troika would lend then a penny - admittedly for their own self-interest but hey, its their money and they decide the terms. The Greek governments of the past have proven to be utterly untrustworthy. the current one is gaining real credibility at a high level however most of theMP's are still acting like small time petty crooks with openly vested interest not in the best interest of the Greek people, but solely in keeping their own jobs by pandering to self-interest groups who just want someone to fund their unaffordable lifestyle.

Do you know that most of the current Greek politicians are in their positions because their families owned such positions? When a Greek citizen votes he has either to vote these people or not vote at all. 40% of Greek citizens made the decision not to vote on previous year's elections.

10 years living with these people in Thessaloniki taught me this. Its why I get so annoyed about Greeks who complain and blame everyone else claiming that they have been misunderstood or are innocent. Nobody under the age of 10 is innocent in Greece. they're all bent as a five bob note

Another sensational generalization for epilogue..

Propaganda and Prejudice
THE END. :roll:

the playing mantis

now come on chaps, this is all getting rather serious. lets just play nice, remmebr this is nice week (my quips were not serious although true mr greek).

tired, vote big nige in and u wont have to worry what the greeks get up to.

Alitogata

the playing mantis wrote:

now come on chaps, this is all getting rather serious. lets just play nice, remmebr this is nice week (my quips were not serious although true mr greek).

tired, vote big nige in and u wont have to worry what the greeks get up to.

Mrs Greek.

the playing mantis

mrs or miss!