Helmets??

Downhill_Deamon

DanDax1990 wrote:

I had a fairly big off a few week ago, Landed on my head/left shoulder roughly 25mph. I had just a helmet on.

Broken collarbone and a slight headache.

Would've been a lot worse without the helmet which resulted in cracking in 7 places.

I fell off today -similarly but not as bad, had helmet, front wheel sliped going around corner and I had a lot of force going forward so i tucked my head and slid along my helmet and right shoulder. haha but anyway the helmet was scratched just like my arm but my head would probably have stones in it if I didn't have my helmet. I was doing downhill though.

andyonwight

Not got children but have ALWAYs worn a lid, even if its only along a short path.

Reason, was less than 500 yds from home when involved in a RTI where my head came into contact with a concrete wall after being forced off the road by a van in a traffic control section of road. In hospital for 4 days and no memory of the following 7 days. Only when I spoke to the doctor 3 weeks later he told me that if I had not had the helmet on then I would not be here to speak to him. Even wearing the helmet I needed CPR for a few minutes whilst the Ambulance arrived. The wall belonged to the neighbour of a paramedic who was at home (he gave me the CPR)

He said a younger lad some days later, not wearing a helmet, was brought in and will need medical care for the rest of his life. Makes you think about it a lot after that so when my young brother started biking he had my spare helmet.

paul.skibum

prawny wrote:

I don't insist my kids wear a helmet, I would if they were going to a trail centre but FFS, just pottering around outside the house? Cycling isn't dangerous, I don't want my kids thinking it is.

Surely its not about your kids thinking cycling is dangerous it is just about making sensible decisions - no for me cycling isn't inherently dangerous - what makes it risky pootling about on the road are dogs, cars, pedestrians, other cyclists, etc etc - all things being equal your kid riding in a completely empty street is safe as houses - roads are rarely completely empty.

prawny

paul.skibum wrote:

prawny wrote:

I don't insist my kids wear a helmet, I would if they were going to a trail centre but FFS, just pottering around outside the house? Cycling isn't dangerous, I don't want my kids thinking it is.

Surely its not about your kids thinking cycling is dangerous it is just about making sensible decisions - no for me cycling isn't inherently dangerous - what makes it risky pootling about on the road are dogs, cars, pedestrians, other cyclists, etc etc - all things being equal your kid riding in a completely empty street is safe as houses - roads are rarely completely empty.

Nah, honestly I think the helmet thing has gone way too far. When I was growing up I didn't even have a helmet. I can found on one finger the number of times I've crashed and hit my head, and I can count on no fingers the number I've hit my head whilst wearing a helmet.

I wear my helmet on my road bike, but I don't think it would do me any good at all in a crash, I only wear it to keep the family happy and to avoid a contributory negligence claim if some numpty ran me over, there's nothing to it.

On the mtb, I'm more likely to have a crash and it be the sort that a helmet will help with, plus the fact my mtb helmet covers far more of my head.

Edit - but yeah common sense is key.

coulddobetter

Try a stint as a nurse in intensive care . I can assure you nursing a teenager to the point of switching off life support and discussing organ donation with their parents is the most harrowing thing I have done .

paulneenan76

Saw a documentary this evening which showed a young boy who hit a van/van hit him, and the immensely invasive, seconds from death, life savig surgery,he was having - It looked like something from a war movie! wasn't wearing a helmet and he ended up like meat on a butchers slab, during the surgery.

Personally, if you saw the effects it can have on families, I really don't understand why anyone wouldn't wear a helmet. Whilst I hope it'll become compulsory for kids, its personal choice and not enforced, but I think it will eventually.

And set an example to your kids - keep it simple. Wearing one is hardly a pain in the arse is it.

Paul

FishFish

DanDax1990 wrote:

I had a fairly big off a few week ago, Landed on my head/left shoulder roughly 25mph. I had just a helmet on.

Broken collarbone and a slight headache.

Would've been a lot worse without the helmet which resulted in cracking in 7 places.

Me too! Wear the helmet all the time. Last week big off - legs first into the combine harvester - completely eaten, legs, nob, liver, neck, teeth - but NOT HEAD because I was wearing my helmet. Wear the helmet.

Daz555

Oddly in 37 years of cycling I've never hit my head hard on anything. The only bad knocks I've had are from sports where you don't wear helmets - football and table tennis (bizarre but true) :oops: I've had some really nasty head cuts surfing as well now that I think about it. I always wear a lid when on my MTB or road bike - MTB lid is especially good for keep stray branches at bay! I've never had a road-off but plenty of falls on my MTB over the years - I'll be glad of that lid one day I'm sure.

One thing I do find odd about the whole helmet thing though is the slightly screwed up view of risk some people seem to display. In these forums you'll come across cyclists happy to tear down rock strewn Welsh mountains at 40mph only inches from trees, or descend cliff-edged mountain roads at 60mph. Some of those very same cyclists will then have the front to criticise someone who chooses to pop down the shops without a helmet on. :shock: It is a bizarre situation and I just don't get it. :?

Looking some stats I read recently it would appear that the majority of cyclists have a more fluid approach to helmet wear. It is up to 70% helmet use in London at peak times on major roads for example but drops under 20% for cyclists observed on minor roads outside London. I find this refreshingly sensible.

paulneenan76 wrote:

Whilst I hope it'll become compulsory for kids, its personal choice and not enforced, but I think it will eventually.

Perhaps. I think we are a fair way off yet though as there is still no consensus on the overall impact of helmet use. This is in contrast to say seat belts or motorcycle helmets where the evidence was unequivocal and was for many years before legislation was passed.

FishFish

Daz555 wrote:

. In these forums you'll come across cyclists happy to tear down rock strewn Welsh mountains at 40mph only inches from trees, or descend cliff-edged mountain roads at 60mph. Some of those very same cyclists will then have the front to criticise someone who chooses to pop down the shops without a helmet on. :shock:

Can you name 3?

prawny

coulddobetter wrote:

Try a stint as a nurse in intensive care . I can assure you nursing a teenager to the point of switching off life support and discussing organ donation with their parents is the most harrowing thing I have done .

How many of those type of injuries would REALLY be prevented by a top line racing helmet though. My Met Sine Thesis passes all the required test but doesn't cover any of the back of my head, has sharp protrusions that would likely cause rotational injuries and because it's well ventilated it's quite stiff.

I think the only way you're going to avoid the risk of head injury is to avoid doing anything at all.

But, as I've said before I always wear mine when I'm 'out for a ride', it's part of the outfit.

prawny

Daz555 wrote:

paulneenan76 wrote:

Whilst I hope it'll become compulsory for kids, its personal choice and not enforced, but I think it will eventually.

Perhaps. I think we are a fair way off yet though as there is still no consensus on the overall impact of helmet use. This is in contrast to say seat belts or motorcycle helmets where the evidence was unequivocal and was for many years before legislation was passed.

The thing about helmets for motorbikes and seatbelts in cars. If people decide not to ride a motorbike becasue they can't feel the wind in their hair, or don't go in the car because they don't want to wear a seatbelt (I know they just wouldn't wear it but bear with me) it would be generally a good thing for everyone. If having to wear a helmet puts people and kids off cycling because of the the extra faff, that would be terrible.

Say I'm 12, and I want to ride my bike to school, suddenly I'm breaking the law if I don't wear a helmet. It's too far to walk, feck it I'll get my parents to take me.
Off to the shop on a bike, going out later don't want to mess my hair up, I'll go in the car instead.
And so on. Eventually more cars, more fat people, more pollution, but hey, minor head injuries are reduced. Major ones stay about the same. Result.

rockmonkeysc

FishFish wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

. In these forums you'll come across cyclists happy to tear down rock strewn Welsh mountains at 40mph only inches from trees, or descend cliff-edged mountain roads at 60mph. Some of those very same cyclists will then have the front to criticise someone who chooses to pop down the shops without a helmet on. :shock:

Can you name 3?

Me!
I race downhill, I understand its a dangerous sport, I have seen someone hit a tree face first at 35+mph but because he was wearing the right kit (armour, neck brace and full face helmet) he was able to walk away feeling pretty sore and sick but basically fine.
I have had plenty of big accidents with nothing worse than broken collar bones.
Downhill is a risky sport BUT I would say less dangerous than riding on any road. I cycle to work every day and the idea of even just riding down to the shop without a helmet seems completely stupid to me. You can be as careful as you want but you can't guarantee that the drivers you share a road with are as careful. One mistake from one of them and it's all over.
Its risk management. Doing dangerous things in the safest way practical. How difficult is it to put on a helmet?

kirby700

On Sunday my log on the gps indicated I was 26mph when I dropped it, front wheel hooked up on a well placed branch (walkers again I suspect) fell onto my side and banged the side of head. One headache and various pizzas down my side AND one knackered Bell variant helmet.

Well happy the way it preformed,

Crazy if you don't but hey ho, its your head!

Daz555

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Downhill is a risky sport BUT I would say less dangerous than riding on any road.

I'd be extremely surprised if the stats backed up that view.

YeehaaMcgee

Daz555 wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Downhill is a risky sport BUT I would say less dangerous than riding on any road.

I'd be extremely surprised if the stats backed up that view.

pretty sure rockmonkey's got it right. Whether you look at serious injuries or fatalities, I reckon more people come a cropper on roads than racing DH. Hell, probably more than all mtbing combined.

fredblob

im pretty sure any sort of road cycling is more dangerous then downhill some idiot in a land rover nearly ran me over whilst i was on a zebra crossing some people need shooting.

paul.skibum

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Downhill is a risky sport BUT I would say less dangerous than riding on any road.

I'd be extremely surprised if the stats backed up that view.

pretty sure rockmonkey's got it right. Whether you look at serious injuries or fatalities, I reckon more people come a cropper on roads than racing DH. Hell, probably more than all mtbing combined.

For sure there will be more serious injuries on road from a volume point of view but even proportionally I'd say road injures more than off road and again I'd say that comes from the potential risks plus the level of rider likely to be involved.

I have been driving a Sprinter in London a lot over the last few weeks and sharing the roads on the cycle super highways with all sorts of cyclists - I am not saying all the ones I thought were a risk to themselves weren't wearing helmets but all the ones without helmets made me think they were at risk (if that makes sense).

I rode to a mates for dinner last nigth with another friend - I pulled on my lid as we set off and he asked me why I had it for the short trip across town - to me it was like putting the seatbelt on in the car. He, to be fair, has ridden round the world without one.

Daz555

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Downhill is a risky sport BUT I would say less dangerous than riding on any road.

I'd be extremely surprised if the stats backed up that view.

pretty sure rockmonkey's got it right. Whether you look at serious injuries or fatalities, I reckon more people come a cropper on roads than racing DH. Hell, probably more than all mtbing combined.

Well there are multiple times more people riding on the road - about 5 billion kms per year are ridden in the UK.

What we'd need are the deaths or serious injuries per km ridden for downhill mountain bikers. Looking at the stats for 2011 there is 1 cyclist death per 8 million journeys and 37 million kms ridden per death but there are no equiv stats for mountain biking that I'm aware of - which is hardly surprising. However I'd expect a fair few accidents after 8 million riders had done 37 million kms of Fort William!

My gut feeling is that death rates for mountain biking may possibly be even lower than for cycling on the road (no cars or lorries) but that serious injury rates would be much higher.

This needs a study!

2x10

What a ridiculous post, Hands up those who ever died of not wearing a helmet...
Of course you dont need one, and do ride very very fast, dont want your horrible brain injury cluttering up A & E do we....

rockmonkeysc

Death of downhill riders are extremely rare. I have only ever heard of two.
Deaths of road cyclists are unfortunately very common. Some of that is due to the number of road cyclists.
Unfortunately when a rider gets hit off by a car its very likely that there will be broken bones or worse. Out of town serious injuries and deaths are more common.
In downhill riders are prepared to be crashing, its inevitable that you will come off hard and fast occasionally so you wear body armour, neck brace, full face helmet, knee and shin guards. Thats why downhill riders generally walk away from huge crashes with just cuts and bruises. Broken collar bones are probably the most common injury and it hurts but its nothing serious. In four years of regular downhill riding and racing I have never seen anything worse than a broken ankle.
As someone who rides downhill most weekends and commutes 160 miles a week on a road bike I would say without any doubt that its far more likely I would be killed or seriously injured on a road bike which is why I ALWAYS wear a helmet and high vis jersy or jacket.

Wag$ter

Thought id post up my Video of my crash on Sunday Which resulted in a 2 night stay at Addenbrookes Hospital Cambridge
total of 20 stitches to Chin, lip and nose... learnt the power of morphine lol
Checked damage to helmet, damage to right temple area and forehead definitely think would be a different story if I wasn't wearing it
Video of my Crash
Just ordered a Giro Xar and hill definitely be wearing it every time i go out on the bike

Daz555

Wag$ter wrote:

Thought id post up my Video of my crash on Sunday Which resulted in a 2 night stay at Addenbrookes Hospital Cambridge
total of 20 stitches to Chin, lip and nose... learnt the power of morphine lol
Checked damage to helmet, damage to right temple area and forehead definitely think would be a different story if I wasn't wearing it
Video of my Crash
Just ordered a Giro Xar and hill definitely be wearing it every time i go out on the bike

Did you give any thought to a full face lid? I'm not saying you should, just wondering.

prawny

RockmonkeySC wrote:

As someone who rides downhill most weekends and commutes 160 miles a week on a road bike I would say without any doubt that its far more likely I would be killed or seriously injured on a road bike which is why I ALWAYS wear a helmet and high vis jersy or jacket.

All common sense but I always wonder

1. out of those two safety items, which do you think is more effective at preventing death by car.

2. Does anyone seriously think a helmet would do a fat lot if you were hit by a car/van/truck/bus/tuktuk?

I always wear my helmet on my road bike, but it's to protect me against my own stupidity rather than being run down. In fact, I wonder how many of the cycling road deaths have anything to do with head injury. I would have thought (at least the publicised lorry incidents in London) the actual cause of deeath would more likey be massive blood loss. If fact, I'd like to see what proportion of cyclists killed or seriously injured were helmetless. Any one know where I could find that info?

Wag$ter

Daz555 wrote:

Wag$ter wrote:

Thought id post up my Video of my crash on Sunday Which resulted in a 2 night stay at Addenbrookes Hospital Cambridge
total of 20 stitches to Chin, lip and nose... learnt the power of morphine lol
Checked damage to helmet, damage to right temple area and forehead definitely think would be a different story if I wasn't wearing it
Video of my Crash
Just ordered a Giro Xar and hill definitely be wearing it every time i go out on the bike

Did you give any thought to a full face lid? I'm not saying you should, just wondering.

I had looked into them but for general xc riding maybe a bit overkill do need to draw the line somewhere.
The main thing the helmet did was stop me being knocked unconscious

Richie63

Being me I've hit the ground a good few times. I'm probably able to write this because of wearing a helmet.

Some may not view that as a good thing though.

bails87

From the commuting forum, about the woman on a bike killed the other day:

Scarily and sadly, I've just read this on a friend's Facebook wall:

"I held someone's hand as she died, today.

She had been cycling on the South Circular road in West Dulwich when a lorry drove straight over her. Horrific. Hopelessly, perhaps ridiculously, I gave her first aid. It turned out that her injuries were not survivable - massive internal haemorrhaging, broken leg(s) and her spine had been snapped in two, badly disfiguring her back.

Her name was Chiara. She was 30.

....

Rest in peace, Chiara. I knew you only briefly, but will never forget you. I can only hope your friends and family find the strength to deal with your untimely and wholly unnecessary death."

I doubt any 'normal' protective gear would have helped with that.

As for road vs MTB, most of the risk on the road comes from sharing space with heavy, fast (,badly driven?) vehicles. Riding on a closed road is much safer. Imagine doing a DH run with dozens of 4X4s going up and down the course at 40mph at the same time!

YeehaaMcgee

Well, no, normal protective gear won't help something like that, but a helmet will cushion the head somewhat in most circumstances

rockmonkeysc

prawny wrote:

All common sense but I always wonder

1. out of those two safety items, which do you think is more effective at preventing death by car.

2. Does anyone seriously think a helmet would do a fat lot if you were hit by a car/van/truck/bus/tuktuk?

1. Prevention is ideal so the high vis is good but I still think the helmet is more important.

2. I would much rather hit the ground head first wearing a helmet. Both times I have been hit off I went head first across the car bonnet before hitting the ground, both times I smashed my helmet. Pretty sure I wouldn't be here now if I hadn't worn a helmet.

what good reason is there to not wear a helmet? They are cheap, comfortable, light and stop your brains falling out. I can see no possible argument against wearing one.

prawny

RockmonkeySC wrote:

prawny wrote:

All common sense but I always wonder

1. out of those two safety items, which do you think is more effective at preventing death by car.

2. Does anyone seriously think a helmet would do a fat lot if you were hit by a car/van/truck/bus/tuktuk?

1. Prevention is ideal so the high vis is good but I still think the helmet is more important.

2. I would much rather hit the ground head first wearing a helmet. Both times I have been hit off I went head first across the car bonnet before hitting the ground, both times I smashed my helmet. Pretty sure I wouldn't be here now if I hadn't worn a helmet.

what good reason is there to not wear a helmet? They are cheap, comfortable, light and stop your brains falling out. I can see no possible argument against wearing one.

Me either, but I also don't think people should be forced to wear one, I think people should have the right to chose their own acceptable level of risk.

rockmonkeysc

How much do you think it costs the emergency services when someone is killed or seriously injured on the road?
Helmets help reduce deaths on roads so should be compulsory.