Bike brand value

stubs

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Would you prefer to fiddle, or to be able to buy something off the shelf that does what you want?

Everyone wants different things. I like my forks fairly soft with just enough rebound to stop it being a pogo stick but like my shock well damped, also I am 6 foot of rippling beer muscle. If the suspension worked for me off the shelf it would fire 95% of the population out of the saddle like an ejector seat. A mate is a spindly 9 1/2 stone dripping wet and barely needs a shock pump to set his sag.

rockmonkeysc

I like to have enough adjustment to set my suspension exactly how I like it. Thats why I wont be wasting my money on a Fox CTD unit.

stubs

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I like to have enough adjustment to set my suspension exactly how I like it. Thats why I wont be wasting my money on a Fox CTD unit.

Fox do seem to have dropped a bollock with the CTD suspension. Anyone remember Fox Terralogic it was about as popular as a dog turd and worked for about the 1st 10% of a ride then would disappear and turn the fork into a pogostick for the rest of the ride.

supersonic

CTD needs a full low speed adjuster in my opinion - why anyone would want to turn the damping completely off to 'descend' is beyond me!

YeehaaMcgee

stubs wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I like to have enough adjustment to set my suspension exactly how I like it. Thats why I wont be wasting my money on a Fox CTD unit.

Fox do seem to have dropped a bollock with the CTD suspension. Anyone remember Fox Terralogic it was about as popular as a dog turd and worked for about the 1st 10% of a ride then would disappear and turn the fork into a pogostick for the rest of the ride.

supersonic wrote:

CTD needs a full low speed adjuster in my opinion - why anyone would want to turn the damping completely off to 'descend' is beyond me!

Yep, completely agree.
I actually didn't know that Terralogic was a generic thing though, but I suspect I'm getting it confused with that "brain" shite they made for specialized.

supersonic

Need to bring back RLC - superb.

YeehaaMcgee

supersonic wrote:

Need to bring back RLC - superb.

The Fox DHX (coil) I have on the old bike, and the 36's RC2 system are both impeccable.
Fork has separate high/low speed compression adjustment, and rebound, and you can adjust the bottom out resistance if needs be internally. The rear shock has separate compression, rebound, ramping curve, and bottom out resistance.
just what you need to get the job done, and it works flawlessly. great stuff.

stubs

supersonic wrote:

Need to bring back RLC - superb.

I still miss my 2003 Manitou Black coil forks. I bought a heavier weight spring to suit my beer muscle and then rode them for 3 years without once doing any more than wipe them down and squirt in some grease. Blooming hefty compared to modern stuff but compared to my original rubber bung forks they were awesome they had stuff like damping and preload, well technical.

rockmonkeysc

Im waiting for Cane Creek to make a fork with the same quality damping and adjustability as the CCDB

Kowalski675

I seem to recall reading that the Double Barrel was developed in conjunction with Ohlins?

YeehaaMcgee

What exactly does that mean in terms of anything?

rockmonkeysc

Kowalski675 wrote:

I seem to recall reading that the Double Barrel was developed in conjunction with Ohlins?

Yes. The shock has the Ohlins logo on it. I think Ohlins make the dampers and Cane Creek build the shock.
I had a set of Ohlins forks on my old track day bike and they were amazing, so sensitive and perfectly damped. I got massive front end grip on that thing.

YeehaaMcgee

So Cane Creek have shocks designed by a suspension company? I see.
I understand that the double barrels are exceptionally good, but I fail to see why the fact that they were built by ohlins has any significance except marketing value.

cooldad

If you had 100,000 motorcycles and were a motorcycling genius like Cowudderski you would understand.

rockmonkeysc

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

So Cane Creek have shocks designed by a suspension company? I see.
I understand that the double barrels are exceptionally good, but I fail to see why the fact that they were built by ohlins has any significance except marketing value.

Ohlins make by far the best motorbike and mx suspension and supply most moto gp teams. Their experience with top spec dampers has transferred over to the CCDB. Fox and RS cant match their technology or experience.

lawman

Put it this way, usually motorsport teams are sponsored by manufacturers to use their products. Teams payed (and continue to do so) Ohlins considerable sums of money to use their products. They're that good. As Rockmonkey said they have years more experience than RS or Fox. Similar story to BOS actually who also have years of experience in motorsport.

rockmonkeysc

The biggest difference with a Cane Creek double barrel is that the damping circuits are completely independent making it really easy to get it set exactly how you want it (despite what people say about them being difficult to set up).
They can also be rebuilt at different lengths so you can keep it when you get a new frame.
I have had a DHX5 and a Vivvid air and coil. The CCDB is much better.

YeehaaMcgee

lawman wrote:

As Rockmonkey said they have years more experience than RS or Fox.

Nope, Fox have been going longer. Fox have years of expertise in motocross, remember. Manitou as well (oddly, given their shite products!)
I think Rockshox is the only suspension company that doesn't come from the automotive industry, but then again, they might be a different company with a pseudonym or something. I don't particularly care, to be honest.

The mere fact that someone makes high end suspension for other things, doesn't mean they will automatically make great suspension for bikes, Manitou/Answer is a perfect example.
It DOES get you marketing hype though.

rockmonkeysc

The CCDB is far better than my last DHX5 and Vivvid so Ohlins/Cane Creek definitely got something right.
I don't think it's a marketing thing. Most mountain bikers have never heard of Ohlins and Cane Creek don't promote the Ohlins link as much as they could.
I seem to remember Honda/Showa made a mtb fork that never took off.

Kowalski675

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The biggest difference with a Cane Creek double barrel is that the damping circuits are completely independent making it really easy to get it set exactly how you want it (despite what people say about them being difficult to set up).

I think the "Double Barrel" name comes from the fact that it uses Ohlins twin tube design (which eliminates cavitation).

Kowalski675

RockmonkeySC wrote:

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

So Cane Creek have shocks designed by a suspension company? I see.
I understand that the double barrels are exceptionally good, but I fail to see why the fact that they were built by ohlins has any significance except marketing value.

Ohlins make by far the best motorbike suspension

Yes and no. Their top level equipment (the stuff normal custoners can't buy, even if they could afford it) is as good as anything in the world, but their off the shelf road units are very over rated, and definitely a case of marketing selling units, rather than actual performance - you can get better for the same (or less) money (and Ohlins' road shocks are all off the shelf units - you can get different spring rates, but not a bespoke built shock). They're good (all aftermarket suspension is far superior to the cheap, mass produced crap fitted to production bikes), but they're not the best.

The time when they were 49% owned by Yamaha did no favours to the brand image either - sticking Ohlins stickers on cheap, crap, mass produced shocks (XJR1300SP anyone?) didn't do the brand image any good.

cooldad

Sounds a bity Foxy TBH.

Kowalski675

cooldad wrote:

If you had 100,000 motorcycles like Cowudderski you would understand.

No, I only have four. Well, five if you ask the DVLA.