Bike brand value

24

Comments

  • lawman
    lawman Posts: 6,868
    Maro wrote:
    A fair amount of the "extra" you might pay out for on a trek or spesh is to account for RnD.

    Utter rubbish.
  • YeehaaMcgee
    YeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    lawman wrote:
    Maro wrote:
    A fair amount of the "extra" you might pay out for on a trek or spesh is to account for RnD.

    Utter rubbish.
    Well, you DO pay for it. How much of the money goes towards R&D is debateable, but your money does indeed go towards it.
    My photos
  • LAW4778
    LAW4778 Posts: 232
    Orange are from my hometown and they might be seen as pricey but as far as i know about 75% of the bikes are built in Halifax they have a metal fabricators and paint shop, think they ship the cheaper hardtail frames from where every other bike brands do, not slating the big boys but the labour costs in the far east are obviously cheaper than good old blighty so you are bound to pay a premium, if I could afford an orange I'd have one as they are good, you very rarely read a bad review, also from my hometown so I have a soft spot for them.
    Trek Fuel EX 7 29er 2014
    Specialized FSR XC Pro 2010 (Gone)
    Specialized Rockhopper Expert 2009 (Gone)
  • YeehaaMcgee
    YeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    What you just wrote has no bearing on value.
    My photos
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    Im not so sure about the value thing. It seems that a bike covered in expensive components is seen as great value no matter what the frame is like.

    I have ridden a Canyon Strive and Torque. Both felt flexy and had rear suspension that doesn't work very well but both are considered top value.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • batmo
    batmo Posts: 277
    ej2320 wrote:
    ...I guess you buy a Specialized knowing the parts for money value isn't the best but you compromise and pay for a quality frame
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    Im not so sure about the value thing. It seems that a bike covered in expensive components is seen as great value no matter what the frame is like.
    These comments I think are the nub of the bike choice dilemma. When I bought my bike back in 1997, I chose an entry level machine with inexpensive components but a good quality frame. This was fairly easy to spot as the same frame was used on all the bikes in that range. Now that frame is all that's left of the original bike!
    It's relatively easy to decide between different forks, shocks, drivetrain and brake components compared to knowing which frame might be great quality and design and which just average.
    This is the advice I would like to see: how do you put a "value" on different frames so you can make a better comparison for the classic Spesh vs. Canyon choice?
    Viscount Grand Touring - in bits
    Trek ZX6500 - semi-retired
    HP Velotechnik Spirit
    Brompton M6
    Specialized Camber Comp
  • 97th choice
    97th choice Posts: 2,222
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    Im not so sure about the value thing. It seems that a bike covered in expensive components is seen as great value no matter what the frame is like.

    I have ridden a Canyon Strive and Torque. Both felt flexy and had rear suspension that doesn't work very well but both are considered top value.

    Same with the boardman bikes.
    Too-ra-loo-ra, too-ra-loo-rye, aye

    Giant Trance
    Radon ZR 27.5 Race
    Btwin Alur700
    Merida CX500
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    ]
    RockmonkeySC wrote:

    I have ridden a Canyon Strive and Torque. Both felt flexy and had rear suspension that doesn't work very well but both are considered top value.

    but it's good enough for Fabien barel :wink:

    3 of my mates ride torques and love them though :?

    97th choice wrote:
    [

    Same with the boardman bikes.
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    as for boardmans, what's wrong with them? I've never ridden a full suss, but the hardtails are great bikes :?
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    welshkev wrote:
    ]
    RockmonkeySC wrote:

    I have ridden a Canyon Strive and Torque. Both felt flexy and had rear suspension that doesn't work very well but both are considered top value.

    but it's good enough for Fabien barel :wink:

    3 of my mates ride torques and love them though :?

    97th choice wrote:
    [

    Same with the boardman bikes.
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    as for boardmans, what's wrong with them? I've never ridden a full suss, but the hardtails are great bikes :?

    Fabien Barel rides a Canyon because he is paid to. Go along to a BDS race and see how many riders have chosen to buy a Canyon for racing.
    I quite like the Boardman hardtail.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • YeehaaMcgee
    YeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    Doesn't that have a lot to do with Canyon's lack of being "cool" though?
    My photos
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    too much to quote above, but do you really reckon that he would ride for canyon if he didn't like the bike? he wants to win, not just get paid and look good!

    I know what you mean mate, but are no riders riding canyons because they're still a bit unsure about longevity and want shop back up cos the bike take a hammering?

    and just cos it's always been done that way i.e people riding giant glory's or whatever - does that make it right that people aren't riding canyons cos they're scared of change maybe?
  • 97th choice
    97th choice Posts: 2,222
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    welshkev wrote:
    ]
    RockmonkeySC wrote:

    I have ridden a Canyon Strive and Torque. Both felt flexy and had rear suspension that doesn't work very well but both are considered top value.

    but it's good enough for Fabien barel :wink:

    3 of my mates ride torques and love them though :?

    97th choice wrote:
    [

    Same with the boardman bikes.
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    as for boardmans, what's wrong with them? I've never ridden a full suss, but the hardtails are great bikes :?

    Fabien Barel rides a Canyon because he is paid to. Go along to a BDS race and see how many riders have chosen to buy a Canyon for racing.
    I quite like the Boardman hardtail.


    Nothing wrong with them but I've never considered the frame designs particularly good, the first FS they did had way too steep a head angle, and rear suspension that didn't appear to do much. The latest version is known to be pretty flexy at best.

    A good example of bikes seen as fantastic value due to high end components bolted onto an OK frame.
    Too-ra-loo-ra, too-ra-loo-rye, aye

    Giant Trance
    Radon ZR 27.5 Race
    Btwin Alur700
    Merida CX500
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    just out of interest, how do you know this? do you/have you owned on or are you just going by hearsay?

    EDIT* did you mean the boardmans? if so, I've heard they're not great either and a mates fell apart in about 6 months.
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,594
    Uhm did i miss something, I thought Fabien was still on a Mondraker?

    To be honest for me value is gettign the best frame possible for my cash, everything else is pretty much wear and tear parts...
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    Thewaylander wrote:
    Uhm did i miss something, I thought Fabien was still on a Mondraker?

    ...

    barel-and-bike-action.jpg

    him and joe barnes I think race enduro for them
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,594
    Poor Fabien stuck on that peice of trash...

    dude is a legend.
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    welshkev wrote:

    I know what you mean mate, but are no riders riding canyons because they're still a bit unsure about longevity and want shop back up cos the bike take a hammering?

    and just cos it's always been done that way i.e people riding giant glory's or whatever - does that make it right that people aren't riding canyons cos they're scared of change maybe?

    So why are such a large percentage of bikes at DH races Nukeproof Scalp's and Pulse's?
    I know one pro rider who trains at my local spot. He doesn't like his bike at all but thats what his team gives him so he rides it as well as he can and says nothing but good things about it when at races etc. As long as the team pays the bills pro riders have to take what they are given and make the best of it.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • YeehaaMcgee
    YeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    So why are such a large percentage of bikes at DH races Nukeproof Scalp's and Pulse's?
    Because they're the "cool" smaller brands, and DH is one of those sports where "cool" counts for far more than anything else, sadly.
    See, for example, things like this...
    Thewaylander wrote:
    Poor Fabien stuck on that peice of trash...
    ^^?
    I mean...
    My photos
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    welshkev wrote:

    I know what you mean mate, but are no riders riding canyons because they're still a bit unsure about longevity and want shop back up cos the bike take a hammering?

    and just cos it's always been done that way i.e people riding giant glory's or whatever - does that make it right that people aren't riding canyons cos they're scared of change maybe?

    So why are such a large percentage of bikes at DH races Nukeproof Scalp's and Pulse's?
    I know one pro rider who trains at my local spot. He doesn't like his bike at all but thats what his team gives him so he rides it as well as he can and says nothing but good things about it when at races etc. As long as the team pays the bills pro riders have to take what they are given and make the best of it.

    A- Sam Hill and shops sell nukeproof so you have back up and you can physically see/try one before you buy

    b - bollocks - not necessarily about your friend, but I don't believe for one minute that Fabien barel went to canyon for the money, I reckon he was well enough off as it was.
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Who says the Canyon frame he rides is anything like one you can buy in anything but general appearance?

    Frankly I don't care, I buy the bike that suites me (Oops never bought one, just build them!)
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    The Rookie wrote:
    Who says the Canyon frame he rides is anything like one you can buy in anything but general appearance?
    !)

    but who says it's not?
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    Nukeproof have been popular with racers since not long after their launch. They got the geometry right and a nice rising rate rear (which is where Canyon failed) and they just work as a DH race bike. I bought mine after a demo on a Scalp, Summum, Demo, Glory and an aweful Orange 224 evo.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    Nukeproof have been popular with racers since not long after their launch. They got the geometry right and a nice rising rate rear (which is where Canyon failed) and they just work as a DH race bike..

    which was what? 4 or 5 years ago? and I doubt the bikes were perfect straight away. I don't even own a canyon, i'm just playing devils advocate here.

    would you mind showing me some of your race results rocketmonkey? (pm if you like :D and i';ll look it up on roots and rain) I know some guys who race in the BDS and I know how quick I am compared to them on my 4 year old weighs a ton spesh, it'd be interesting to see how quick you are :wink:
  • prawny
    prawny Posts: 5,440
    Linear suspension is a regular criticism of nearly all the German bikes and with DH bikes it's always going to be more of a problem as riders tend focus more on suspension set up than general pootlers like me.

    I don't see Canyon as a value brand at all really, just a company who pass on the savings of selling direct only on. Their road bikes are fantastic and I've read about them working on their shock tune for 2014 so I reckon there will be more of them about in future. As it is I wouldn't want a 160mm+ bike using all the travel all the time and like I said I'm a pootler extraordinaire.
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    But surely them passing on the savings by selling direct makes them a value brand as is rose? Because you're saving 'x' amount by buying direct meaning you get better value for your money?

    *frame/suspension arguments aside
  • 97th choice
    97th choice Posts: 2,222
    welshkev wrote:
    just out of interest, how do you know this? do you/have you owned on or are you just going by hearsay?

    EDIT* did you mean the boardmans? if so, I've heard they're not great either and a mates fell apart in about 6 months.


    Talking about the boardmans, owned the first full suss for two years. Have a mate who bought the second version and sold it after 6 months.
    Too-ra-loo-ra, too-ra-loo-rye, aye

    Giant Trance
    Radon ZR 27.5 Race
    Btwin Alur700
    Merida CX500
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,594
    I do honestly think people put to much emphasis on components on bike value.

    In real terms how big a difference does an X7 mech compared to an X9 make? not alot. But if the frame geometry doesn't suit the rider, or how the bike responds and flexes then you have completely wasted your money. that would be poor value.
  • prawny
    prawny Posts: 5,440
    welshkev wrote:
    But surely them passing on the savings by selling direct makes them a value brand as is rose? Because you're saving 'x' amount by buying direct meaning you get better value for your money?

    *frame/suspension arguments aside

    True, but Rose is bike shop with it's own line of bikes, Canyon is a direct supply bike company. In truth there's probably no difference but with Canyon sponsoring Road and MTB teams they just seem less like value brands.

    They don't feel like a value brand to me anyway, YMMV obviously.
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    prawny wrote:
    Linear suspension is a regular criticism of nearly all the German bikes and with DH bikes it's always going to be more of a problem as riders tend focus more on suspension set up than general pootlers like me.

    I don't see Canyon as a value brand at all really, just a company who pass on the savings of selling direct only on. Their road bikes are fantastic and I've read about them working on their shock tune for 2014 so I reckon there will be more of them about in future. As it is I wouldn't want a 160mm+ bike using all the travel all the time and like I said I'm a pootler extraordinaire.

    My race results up until recently were crap because I was three stone overweight and struggling with fittnes (now a reformed pie addict) but now steady top ten in regional races. I missed entries for this years BDS.
    When you have an arse the size of a baby hippo you notice every weakness in a suspension set up.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • YeehaaMcgee
    YeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    prawny wrote:
    They don't feel like a value brand to me anyway, YMMV obviously.
    How would you define "value"?
    My photos

Categories