Standing up when going up hill

suzygarbo

I went out with a group for the first time this morning and I noticed that I was the only one that ever stood up, I did it when I was going up hill, I still used my gears but for some reason it seemed natural to stand up. I have only had my road bike 2 weeks but before this I was used to mountain biking around forests.

Am I supposed to stay seated?

Druidor

Whatever takes your fancy. Using both are perfectly acceptable when going up hill

Standing up will allow you to go faster but your muscles will be supporting your whole body weight so use more energy in the process, you will feel the effort quicky as the lactic acid builds in your muscles (I do) it will move you COG and your Candace will be off

sitting is more constant and more energy efficient but slower

sungod

staying seated is more efficient, but lighter riders may need to stand earlier when it gets steep, also people without low enough gears

if you are happy/comfy to stand that's perfectly fine, do what's right for you, don't worry about what others do

as gradients go up, there's a point where standing becomes the only option, but where that point is depends on gearing and the individual

Calpol

Staying seated is more efficient. It uses less energy and generally imo is faster. Standing up is good also particularly if things get really steep or if you need to stretch your legs.

arthur_scrimshaw

You can do whatever you like, no rules. Standing up uses some different muscles to sitting down, I mix it up to give myself a rest on long hills sometimes or to get up a shortish steep bit. I have a limit to how long I can do it before I have to sit down again! I understand that climbing sitting down builds muscle groups which are used in other riding situations (like riding on the flat) so is beneficial.

Wirral_paul

As above really - do what feels right for you. If you're a newbie and out with a group then it could be as simple as those around you not needing to stand up on the gradients you were on. As you get fitter and stronger then you will likely find yourself sitting down for the shallower gradients.

Being able to climb either seated or standing is useful anyway

MrJoe23

i used to stand up out the saddle at virtually every hill when i started cycling, over time my style has adapted to staying seated more while standing to change it up muscle wise. It feels more comfortable to me now to sit, while before it was more natural to stand. Find your style and roll with it (literally)

ct8282

An interesting thread. At the moment I'm standing up almost exclusively on climbs regardless of length. However, I'm doing this intentionally as part of my own personal training program. I started having private spin tuition 3 weeks ago and absolutely love it, most importantly my instructor is really working on my technique, starting with my pedal strokes (which is actually remarkably hard to get right) and also on my climbing while standing technique. I used to lean way over the handle bars when I was climbing steep hills and quite tired, but I'm learning to get my ass back near the saddle, back straight and core nice and tight, head up and keep a smooth pedal stroke and rhythm, shoulders locked in position so the only thing moving is my legs and the bike. It's incredibly difficult but makes a huge difference and stops the legs fatiguing so quickly when standing up.
I'm finding that my ability to really drive through the lactate threshold is growing immensely from this training and it really does become mind over matter as the burn can be nasty. But it's great fun and is really having a huge impact on my ability to maintain fast cruises on the flats.

Dmak

Absolutely nothing wrong with standing whilst climbing.

It's worth an extra 2 gears over being seated.

As others I tend to mix it up depending on fatigue and hill type.

thefd

Druidor wrote:

Standing up will allow you to go faster.....sitting is more constant and more energy efficient but slower

IMHO this is not true. Sitting is faster and more efficient. There are times when you do need to stand to either change the muscles being used or because of the steepness. If you can stay seated in a higher gear then you will be smoother and faster than standing!

Monty Dog

You can generate more power standing as it engages more muscle groups therefore you can climb faster - downside is that it will tire you out quicker. The reason your ride buddies didn't stand is that maybe because they've trained better for cycling, they simply don't need to stand as they can generate enough power sitting down. It's horses for courses, but being able to switch smoothly between styles can help cope with varying gradients. There's no evidence to suggest that seated is more efficient - it was partly a ruse by certain coaches to 'mask' the effects of drugs in certain cyclists to explain sudden increases in performance.

markhewitt1978

I have trouble with standing, basically if it's more than about 20 seconds I get compeltely whacked and end up suffering for the rest of the climb, so I'll stay seated unless it's a short sharp rise which then flattens out.

I do notice a lot of the time I'm going up a climb and riders ahead of me get out of the saddle, but they don't go any faster, and quite often go slower.

DannyJames

I was going to ask the same question, Coming from a singlespeed mtb i do quite a lot of standing but the more i get used to the gears i think i am spending more time on the saddle. Not sure which is quickest though standing just feels easier

diamonddog

Do what ever you are comfy with, I find sitting and spinning up the hills leaves me with enough energy to accelerate if needed or up a gear and get out of the saddle to accelerate over the brow.

markhewitt1978

DannyJames wrote:

I was going to ask the same question, Coming from a singlespeed mtb i do quite a lot of standing but the more i get used to the gears i think i am spending more time on the saddle. Not sure which is quickest though standing just feels easier

Whatever gets you up the hill fastest and is the least tiring then that's the best way, there's no hard and fast rule. Look at the likes of the TdF you'll see on climbs lots of riders standing, while others remain seated.

fsman

I did the ride london 100 up leith hill yesterday with a 25cog on the back.
Most people recommend seated for climbing as it is more efficient. But getting out of the saddle for a short spell helps when your cadence gets too low, and gives your muscles a little rest.

for me, i try to keep in the saddle for as long as possible, then stand for a bit if it gets too tough, and back into the saddle.

Pross

ct8282 wrote:

An interesting thread. At the moment I'm standing up almost exclusively on climbs regardless of length. However, I'm doing this intentionally as part of my own personal training program. I started having private spin tuition 3 weeks ago and absolutely love it, most importantly my instructor is really working on my technique, starting with my pedal strokes (which is actually remarkably hard to get right) and also on my climbing while standing technique. I used to lean way over the handle bars when I was climbing steep hills and quite tired, but I'm learning to get my ass back near the saddle, back straight and core nice and tight, head up and keep a smooth pedal stroke and rhythm, shoulders locked in position so the only thing moving is my legs and the bike. It's incredibly difficult but makes a huge difference and stops the legs fatiguing so quickly when standing up.
I'm finding that my ability to really drive through the lactate threshold is growing immensely from this training and it really does become mind over matter as the burn can be nasty. But it's great fun and is really having a huge impact on my ability to maintain fast cruises on the flats.

One of the advantages of standing is bringing more muscle groups into use when accelerating or getting up a steep section. I'm not sure how keeping everything still except your legs benefits anything :?

smidsy

If you stay in the same gear and then stand your speed will tend to drop as it is difficult to keep the same cadence.

Standing seems more tyring and this is emphasised by the people who comment that they can do it for short bursts and then need to sit.

Climbing seated is certainly more efficient (as long as you generate the power required).

Mix it up, try different styles on different hills and eventually you will find what works best.

If you stand when others do not just think Pantani (are you bald). :-)

ct8282

Pross wrote:

ct8282 wrote:

An interesting thread. At the moment I'm standing up almost exclusively on climbs regardless of length. However, I'm doing this intentionally as part of my own personal training program. I started having private spin tuition 3 weeks ago and absolutely love it, most importantly my instructor is really working on my technique, starting with my pedal strokes (which is actually remarkably hard to get right) and also on my climbing while standing technique. I used to lean way over the handle bars when I was climbing steep hills and quite tired, but I'm learning to get my ass back near the saddle, back straight and core nice and tight, head up and keep a smooth pedal stroke and rhythm, shoulders locked in position so the only thing moving is my legs and the bike. It's incredibly difficult but makes a huge difference and stops the legs fatiguing so quickly when standing up.
I'm finding that my ability to really drive through the lactate threshold is growing immensely from this training and it really does become mind over matter as the burn can be nasty. But it's great fun and is really having a huge impact on my ability to maintain fast cruises on the flats.

One of the advantages of standing is bringing more muscle groups into use when accelerating or getting up a steep section. I'm not sure how keeping everything still except your legs benefits anything :?

If you saw the video of Mr H taking back the Strava KOM and observe his technique when he's standing for the climb you'll see exactly what I mean by the right technique. His torso position/shoulders are locked in position, his ass is back near his saddle, head up, legs spinning with a decent rhythm, and the only thing that looks like its moving is the bike from side to side. It's the correct technique and is less fatiguing. That's what I meant but perhaps you took me too literally, but I can assure you, the pros generally cycle this way when standing. My spin coach has taught many competitive cyclists over the years. She knows her stuff, trust me.

denniskwok

ct8282 wrote:

If you saw the video of Mr H taking back the Strava KOM and observe his technique when he's standing for the climb you'll see exactly what I mean by the right technique. His torso position/shoulders are locked in position, his ass is back near his saddle, head up, legs spinning with a decent rhythm, and the only thing that looks like its moving is the bike from side to side. It's the correct technique and is less fatiguing. That's what I meant but perhaps you took me too literally, but I can assure you, the pros generally cycle this way when standing. My spin coach has taught many competitive cyclists over the years. She knows her stuff, trust me.

I totally agree with the above. I used to tire far too easily when climbing out of the saddle. I was too far and low over the front of the bike which engages your triceps and too many other upper body muscle groups, using energy and building up too much lactic too quickly.

When out of the saddle now, I stand much more upright with more weight towards the back of the bike, lock my shoulders with my arms almost completely straight, head up looking forwards and tend to gently rock the bike using the rotation of my torso/core instead of trying to twist the headtube off with my arms. It's much more efficient and I can last much longer out of the saddle.

When I drop back down into the saddle, I drop down two gears and consciously try to engage my glutes more.

cesco

I feel more self-accomplished when I make it without getting out of the saddle. But don't forget to mix some en dansante in it too. A term Froome obviously never heard about and forbidden by Sky's whizz kids and number crushers.

Finlaz22

TheFD wrote:

Druidor wrote:

Standing up will allow you to go faster.....sitting is more constant and more energy efficient but slower

IMHO this is not true. Sitting is faster and more efficient. There are times when you do need to stand to either change the muscles being used or because of the steepness. If you can stay seated in a higher gear then you will be smoother and faster than standing!

I guess people use standing for shorter periods of time. Imo, it's essential for acceleration, unless you're Froome of course!

Pross

denniskwok wrote:

ct8282 wrote:

If you saw the video of Mr H taking back the Strava KOM and observe his technique when he's standing for the climb you'll see exactly what I mean by the right technique. His torso position/shoulders are locked in position, his ass is back near his saddle, head up, legs spinning with a decent rhythm, and the only thing that looks like its moving is the bike from side to side. It's the correct technique and is less fatiguing. That's what I meant but perhaps you took me too literally, but I can assure you, the pros generally cycle this way when standing. My spin coach has taught many competitive cyclists over the years. She knows her stuff, trust me.

I totally agree with the above. I used to tire far too easily when climbing out of the saddle. I was too far and low over the front of the bike which engages your triceps and too many other upper body muscle groups, using energy and building up too much lactic too quickly.

When out of the saddle now, I stand much more upright with more weight towards the back of the bike, lock my shoulders with my arms almost completely straight, head up looking forwards and tend to gently rock the bike using the rotation of my torso/core instead of trying to twist the headtube off with my arms. It's much more efficient and I can last much longer out of the saddle.

When I drop back down into the saddle, I drop down two gears and consciously try to engage my glutes more.

That's fine......until you get to steep hills and you don't have enough weight on the front of the bike resulting in the wheel lifting.

denniskwok

Well that's obvious, but that's on super steep climbs. You can have your arms pretty straight while standing and still move weight over the front of the bike when required on anything under 14% in my experience, which will cover you on almost anything you'll encounter in the UK. All you need to do is pivot forward on your shoulder and hip joints. It's not rocket science.

markhewitt1978

smidsy wrote:

If you stand when others do not just think Pantani (are you bald). :-)

I'm bald and about the same height, but that's where the similarities end!

Pross

So are you saying arms completely straight or pretty straight? Completely straight is virtually impossible, I was trying it this morning and you end up so bolt upright it puts you off balance and there's nothing to counteract the downstroke. It might work on a spinning bike which is firmly planted on the floor. If it works for you great but to me it just feels completely unnatural and unbalanced. As a British Cycling coach I think I'll stick to the technique we are taught and which virtually every cyclist seems to instinctively do from beginners to pros - i.e. keep the centre of gravity low and weight slightly forward. I'm not suggesting you should wrestle the bike like it's an out of control crocodile but there needs to be some bend in the elbows and slight rocking of the bike. I would agree that hips and shoulders should stay still and square though.

socistep

Pross wrote:

denniskwok wrote:

ct8282 wrote:

If you saw the video of Mr H taking back the Strava KOM and observe his technique when he's standing for the climb you'll see exactly what I mean by the right technique. His torso position/shoulders are locked in position, his ass is back near his saddle, head up, legs spinning with a decent rhythm, and the only thing that looks like its moving is the bike from side to side. It's the correct technique and is less fatiguing. That's what I meant but perhaps you took me too literally, but I can assure you, the pros generally cycle this way when standing. My spin coach has taught many competitive cyclists over the years. She knows her stuff, trust me.

I totally agree with the above. I used to tire far too easily when climbing out of the saddle. I was too far and low over the front of the bike which engages your triceps and too many other upper body muscle groups, using energy and building up too much lactic too quickly.

When out of the saddle now, I stand much more upright with more weight towards the back of the bike, lock my shoulders with my arms almost completely straight, head up looking forwards and tend to gently rock the bike using the rotation of my torso/core instead of trying to twist the headtube off with my arms. It's much more efficient and I can last much longer out of the saddle.

When I drop back down into the saddle, I drop down two gears and consciously try to engage my glutes more.

That's fine......until you get to steep hills and you don't have enough weight on the front of the bike resulting in the wheel lifting.

I tend to stay seated about 90-95% of the time but will occasionally get out of the saddle, I did the climb out of Pateley Bridge on sunday (Greenhow Hill) which has a few steep bits and found my wheel was lifting a few times!

denniskwok

Pross wrote:

So are you saying arms completely straight or pretty straight? Completely straight is virtually impossible, I was trying it this morning and you end up so bolt upright it puts you off balance and there's nothing to counteract the downstroke. It might work on a spinning bike which is firmly planted on the floor. If it works for you great but to me it just feels completely unnatural and unbalanced. As a British Cycling coach I think I'll stick to the technique we are taught and which virtually every cyclist seems to instinctively do from beginners to pros - i.e. keep the centre of gravity low and weight slightly forward. I'm not suggesting you should wrestle the bike like it's an out of control crocodile but there needs to be some bend in the elbows and slight rocking of the bike. I would agree that hips and shoulders should stay still and square though.

This is what I originally posted:

denniskwok wrote:

When out of the saddle now, I stand much more upright with more weight towards the back of the bike, lock my shoulders with my arms almost completely straight, head up looking forwards and tend to gently rock the bike using the rotation of my torso/core instead of trying to twist the headtube off with my arms. It's much more efficient and I can last much longer out of the saddle.

So basically, I'm in agreement with you.

ct8282

Pross wrote:

So are you saying arms completely straight or pretty straight? Completely straight is virtually impossible, I was trying it this morning and you end up so bolt upright it puts you off balance and there's nothing to counteract the downstroke. It might work on a spinning bike which is firmly planted on the floor. If it works for you great but to me it just feels completely unnatural and unbalanced. As a British Cycling coach I think I'll stick to the technique we are taught and which virtually every cyclist seems to instinctively do from beginners to pros - i.e. keep the centre of gravity low and weight slightly forward. I'm not suggesting you should wrestle the bike like it's an out of control crocodile but there needs to be some bend in the elbows and slight rocking of the bike. I would agree that hips and shoulders should stay still and square though.

Hips and shoulders still and square. Exactly what I was saying and I think you misinterpret what I did say. I don't recall saying arms straight at all. Arms slightly bent, soft, grip on the bars, not grabbing them like you're trying to strangle them. Did I say anything about not having my centre of gravity low? Nope. Think we're singing from the same hymm sheet but you maybe went off and made up something different about the technique I refer too. Sounds remarkably similar to yours.

Pross

It was Denis comment about arms being almost completely straight I was querying. With your own explanation it was the comment that only your legs and bike move - that might work on a spin bike that doesn't need balancing but on a bike you need some upper body movement (generally below the elbows) to counter the downstroke of your leg. You must be doing that to a degree as it is what causes the movement of the bike. A lot will also depend on how steep the hill is, how low your gearing is and how hard you are attacking the hill. I tend to stay seated as much as possible as I'm quite heavy and unfit so standing tires me fairly quickly although my avatar shows my position when force out he saddle by needing to get up a 1:6 climb as quickly as possible!

ct8282

Well, as a British cycling coach I would have assumed you would be fit! Its hard to appreciate the gradient of the hill from that shot, probably looks flatter than it really is. Anyway, I'm just an amateur so don't have any credentials to back up my theory on that one and I think we're on the same page and its just forum misinterpretation at play.