Conti' GP 4000s side wall failure

24

Comments

  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,700
    If you like the feel of the COnti's before you ripped them then try their training tyres

    http://www.conti-online.com/www/bicycle ... ce_en.html

    or

    http://www.conti-online.com/www/bicycle ... rt_en.html

    No personal experience of them though as I'm lucky enough to live in a country with decent roads/fietspads...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    In terms of performance training tyres, Duranos appear to our favoured tyre at the moment, particularly given the stupid prices people want for GP4Seasons. We typically ride 90-100 miles every Saturday in all conditions, particularly flint-strewn country lanes that literally shred tyres - they have little regard for makers claims. I'm probably going to try tubeless this winter, but tyre choice is somewhat limited.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • polyx
    polyx Posts: 112
    Similar problem happened to me once with Conti 4 seasons, but was my fault as brake pad was rubbing the tire tiny bit. Since then I usually check my brake pads to stay on the rim and no fault with Conties ever since.
    me
  • gsvbagpuss
    gsvbagpuss Posts: 272
    I had a massive gash in the side wall on my second ride with 4000s but have persevered as they're so fast! Nothing since so putting it down to bad luck. Will almost ceratinly change next time round but want to get my moneys worth beforehand
  • pkripper
    pkripper Posts: 652
    no sidewall issues for me, and probably on about set 10 of gp4000s. None have had a sidewall problem, and all but one have worn out (the other got cut up by something big (still didn't puncture), but figured it was well used so may as well swap out).

    As with all these things, the happy users keep schtum, those with problems shout a lot so are disproportionately represented. In our club it's the training tyre of choice, for grip, feel and reliability.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    pkripper wrote:
    As with all these things, the happy users keep schtum, those with problems shout a lot so are disproportionately represented.

    I don't think thats the case. If you look at user reviews on Wiggle or any of the other online retailers you will see most people say they are great. I'd suggest the is no disproportion in the people who say they like them to the people who don't.

    I think it is a product that is hyped as being very high quality and the reality in many cases does not meet hype. When the quality is not as expected and Continental do not acknowledge that then all you will get is disgruntled people.

    When I think back to my experience it could be that the punctures were just bad luck. I didn't actually have a sidewall failure but after about 500 miles threads were coming away from the sidewall close to the bead. It was not in contact with the brake pad or the road. So why was it disintegrating?
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Well - mine were that bad that I did a PB on the way home last night ... obviously they were stripped to threads by the time I reached the front door and I was riding on the rims ...

    Oh no ... they weren't .... but I did get the PB! :)

    So - why do other ppls tyres disintegrate? Are they riding them in rough terrain? Are they not pumped up to the correct pressure? Is there a rubbing point on the frame? Or do they have a bad tyre?
    It's quite conceivable that there are defect tyres out there - I doubt the manufacturing process is perfect - but despite being perfectly happy with my 4 x 4season and 2 x 4000s on 3 bikes I'm mildly concerned that Continental reportedly brush off any claims of defects.
    It would be interesting to see just how big this problem is - perhaps one of the publishers could do an article on it and invite those with what appears to be defects to send in their tyres and approach Continental with slightly more than just a 1 off .. ?
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    I must have been lucky. I did well over 3000 miles on mine until I got one puncture. My mate owns the bike now and has never punctured, on the same tyres. I looked over the bike last week, at his request. The tyres and sidewalls are fine.

    GP4000S is by far the most popular tyre being used so some failures and punctures will be inevitable, as there is with every other alternative tyre.

    I wouldn't hesitate to buy them again.
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,700
    earth wrote:
    I think it is a product that is hyped as being very high quality and the reality in many cases does not meet hype. When the quality is not as expected and Continental do not acknowledge that then all you will get is disgruntled people.

    They re a race tyre that people are using as a training tyre and then expecting them to last for ages in all conditions. To be blunt it's not Continentals Fault if people don't/can't read the information on the back of the box...

    It's the classic BR "recommend me a cheap but high quality, grippy but low rolling resistance, long lasting and tough but light tyre"
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ddraver wrote:
    earth wrote:
    I think it is a product that is hyped as being very high quality and the reality in many cases does not meet hype. When the quality is not as expected and Continental do not acknowledge that then all you will get is disgruntled people.

    They re a race tyre that people are using as a training tyre and then expecting them to last for ages in all conditions. To be blunt it's not Continentals Fault if people don't/can't read the information on the back of the box...

    It's the classic BR "recommend me a cheap but high quality, grippy but low rolling resistance, long lasting and tough but light tyre"

    from Conti-Online
    So for reliability, longevity and all out performance for your race machine, the GP 4000s is the only choice.
    What is Longevity then - can I expect 50 miles from a tyre - 500? 1000? 2000?

    I've just noticed that their recommended inflation is 110PSI - looks like I'm running mine flat then @ 100psi - I'll top them up before I ride them again then. :)
  • gsvbagpuss
    gsvbagpuss Posts: 272
    My research after my puncture did suggest that 110 was significantly better at reducing the risks, but what was only going on what other users are have posted on forums, so clearly it must be true!
  • pkripper
    pkripper Posts: 652
    earth wrote:
    pkripper wrote:
    As with all these things, the happy users keep schtum, those with problems shout a lot so are disproportionately represented.

    I don't think thats the case. If you look at user reviews on Wiggle or any of the other online retailers you will see most people say they are great. I'd suggest the is no disproportion in the people who say they like them to the people who don't.

    I think it is a product that is hyped as being very high quality and the reality in many cases does not meet hype. When the quality is not as expected and Continental do not acknowledge that then all you will get is disgruntled people.

    When I think back to my experience it could be that the punctures were just bad luck. I didn't actually have a sidewall failure but after about 500 miles threads were coming away from the sidewall close to the bead. It was not in contact with the brake pad or the road. So why was it disintegrating?

    Well, the logic of feedback statistics would very much suggest otherwise. Myself, and to the best of my knowledge, no-one else I know with the tyres has felt the need to review them positively despite in use being faultless. I bought the product, it performed as expected, why would I write on an online retailer / review site that that is the case when I have better things to do with my time.

    However, if I was less than impressed with performance, there is a higher likelihood that i would like to convey my disatisfaction.
  • the playing mantis
    the playing mantis Posts: 2,129
    are the companies recommend psi's not BS though, sheldon brown goes into this at depth i think

    i just had both my bikes serviced and got them to stick on gp4000s as part of it, as im after as much grip as possible to restore confidence after a crash, seem fine so far, only done 40 odd miles on them so far mind, so probably not even scrubbed in yet!
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,700
    Erm...
    Slowbike wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    earth wrote:
    I think it is a product that is hyped as being very high quality and the reality in many cases does not meet hype. When the quality is not as expected and Continental do not acknowledge that then all you will get is disgruntled people.

    They re a race tyre that people are using as a training tyre and then expecting them to last for ages in all conditions. To be blunt it's not Continentals Fault if people don't/can't read the information on the back of the box...

    It's the classic BR "recommend me a cheap but high quality, grippy but low rolling resistance, long lasting and tough but light tyre"

    from Conti-Online
    So for reliability, longevityand all out performance for your race machine, the GP 4000s is the only choice.
    What is Longevity then - can I expect 50 miles from a tyre - 500? 1000? 2000?

    I've just noticed that their recommended inflation is 110PSI - looks like I'm running mine flat then @ 100psi - I'll top them up before I ride them again then. :)

    See?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ddraver wrote:
    Erm...
    Slowbike wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    earth wrote:
    I think it is a product that is hyped as being very high quality and the reality in many cases does not meet hype. When the quality is not as expected and Continental do not acknowledge that then all you will get is disgruntled people.

    They re a race tyre that people are using as a training tyre and then expecting them to last for ages in all conditions. To be blunt it's not Continentals Fault if people don't/can't read the information on the back of the box...

    It's the classic BR "recommend me a cheap but high quality, grippy but low rolling resistance, long lasting and tough but light tyre"

    from Conti-Online
    So for reliability, longevityand all out performance for your race machine, the GP 4000s is the only choice.
    What is Longevity then - can I expect 50 miles from a tyre - 500? 1000? 2000?

    I've just noticed that their recommended inflation is 110PSI - looks like I'm running mine flat then @ 100psi - I'll top them up before I ride them again then. :)

    See?

    I can see - yes, but I don't get your point.

    How long is a race? Is it a TT or RR? Do they have to be used just in a race? Is the road surface different for races?

    So we return to the question - what is their definition of longevity ... ?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,700
    On what? Smooth Tarmac? Belgian "roads"? Paris Roubaix? Fort Bill DH course?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    Slowbike wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Erm...
    Slowbike wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    earth wrote:
    I think it is a product that is hyped as being very high quality and the reality in many cases does not meet hype. When the quality is not as expected and Continental do not acknowledge that then all you will get is disgruntled people.

    They re a race tyre that people are using as a training tyre and then expecting them to last for ages in all conditions. To be blunt it's not Continentals Fault if people don't/can't read the information on the back of the box...

    It's the classic BR "recommend me a cheap but high quality, grippy but low rolling resistance, long lasting and tough but light tyre"

    from Conti-Online
    So for reliability, longevityand all out performance for your race machine, the GP 4000s is the only choice.
    What is Longevity then - can I expect 50 miles from a tyre - 500? 1000? 2000?

    I've just noticed that their recommended inflation is 110PSI - looks like I'm running mine flat then @ 100psi - I'll top them up before I ride them again then. :)

    See?

    I can see - yes, but I don't get your point.

    How long is a race? Is it a TT or RR? Do they have to be used just in a race? Is the road surface different for races?

    So we return to the question - what is their definition of longevity ... ?

    I guess the relevant part about defining that that they are for 'races' is that they are intended as single day use. Even if you think of the TDF as a race, there is no need for a tyre to last more than a day as they can swap a new set on overnight. If you use Formula 1 thinking, if a racing tyre lasts more than 1 day of an event, it has been overengineered or compromised in terms of performance for longevity. I think 'racing longevity' is perhaps just about finding the right combination to minimise punctures or problems that might necessitace repair or replacement DURING a days racing and weighing that up with a tyre which is heavier and slow.

    So when they talk about "reliability, longevityand all out performance for your race machine", they are presumably suggesting that it should last for as many miles as would be covered in a single day in an event a nod to puncture protection but not too much as to slow you down significantly.

    I guess this would fit with somewhere between 200-500 miles, so actually it sounds like they have over-engineered it and given it TOO MUCH longevity to fit their description!!
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    apreading wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Erm...
    Slowbike wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    earth wrote:
    I think it is a product that is hyped as being very high quality and the reality in many cases does not meet hype. When the quality is not as expected and Continental do not acknowledge that then all you will get is disgruntled people.

    They re a race tyre that people are using as a training tyre and then expecting them to last for ages in all conditions. To be blunt it's not Continentals Fault if people don't/can't read the information on the back of the box...

    It's the classic BR "recommend me a cheap but high quality, grippy but low rolling resistance, long lasting and tough but light tyre"

    from Conti-Online
    So for reliability, longevityand all out performance for your race machine, the GP 4000s is the only choice.
    What is Longevity then - can I expect 50 miles from a tyre - 500? 1000? 2000?

    I've just noticed that their recommended inflation is 110PSI - looks like I'm running mine flat then @ 100psi - I'll top them up before I ride them again then. :)

    See?

    I can see - yes, but I don't get your point.

    How long is a race? Is it a TT or RR? Do they have to be used just in a race? Is the road surface different for races?

    So we return to the question - what is their definition of longevity ... ?

    I guess the relevant part about defining that that they are for 'races' is that they are intended as single day use. Even if you think of the TDF as a race, there is no need for a tyre to last more than a day as they can swap a new set on overnight. If you use Formula 1 thinking, if a racing tyre lasts more than 1 day of an event, it has been overengineered or compromised in terms of performance for longevity. I think 'racing longevity' is perhaps just about finding the right combination to minimise punctures or problems that might necessitace repair or replacement DURING a days racing and weighing that up with a tyre which is heavier and slow.

    So when they talk about "reliability, longevityand all out performance for your race machine", they are presumably suggesting that it should last for as many miles as would be covered in a single day in an event a nod to puncture protection but not too much as to slow you down significantly.

    I guess this would fit with somewhere between 200-500 miles, so actually it sounds like they have over-engineered it and given it TOO MUCH longevity to fit their description!!

    Eeek - not sure I'd want to buy a set of tyres for EACH race! Not at that price!
    As we're guessing (not a lot else we can do) then perhaps its something best put to Conti themselves ... ?
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    I guess you are right - if we are thinking about 'amateur' races, then people wont want to fork out for new tyres every race, unlike pros.

    So perhaps their definition of a general 'race' tyre is one that could do half a dozen one day races or a couple of multi-day events but probably not one that is designed for something like LEJOG, which is touring rather than racing.

    So maybe between 1000-2000 miles is the design objective, which seems to fit with experience for this tyre.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    well - 1000 is 1 lejog and 2000 is there and back ... lele ?! or jogjog ? ;)

    My GP4seasons have done somewhere in the region of 2500-3000 miles now and are fine (despite some pretty dodgy surfaces on occasions!)
    I'm hoping the 4000s on my roadbike will last a couple of thousand - I've only done 400 miles on them so far, but they'd done some miles before I bought them - they look fine though.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    My GP4000S have done 2300 miles, I recently swapped the tyres round since the rear one has developed a flat patch in the centre while the front was still showing the seam. I don't see why they can't do another 2000 miles?
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    I hear that they start to puncture very often if you run them anything like that long though?
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    drlodge wrote:
    My GP4000S have done 2300 miles, I recently swapped the tyres round since the rear one has developed a flat patch in the centre while the front was still showing the seam. I don't see why they can't do another 2000 miles?
    I thought about doing this on my GP4Seasons - the rear was showing more wear than the front - I was informed by a long time rider that I should not do this as the front is where you want the best tyre - so run the tyres till the rear wears out, put the front on the back and put a new tyre on the front.

    Makes sense to me now he tells me ... :)
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,700
    drlodge wrote:
    My GP4000S have done 2300 miles, I recently swapped the tyres round since the rear one has developed a flat patch in the centre while the front was still showing the seam. I don't see why they can't do another 2000 miles?

    I ve something like that too, Had them on for 18 months riding about 80-120km a week depending on time of year and that...that said, I ride on beautiful Dutch roads and wide, swept bike paths so.....

    I only took them off because I went to France and was riding on back roads through vinyards (The Tour of Burgundy paths) which were covered in muds and sticks and stones etc from the vineyard veichles. I swapped them for the 4 seasons. Whilst changing the 4000S' I could have a good look and decided it was nt worth keeping them
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    apreading wrote:
    I hear that they start to puncture very often if you run them anything like that long though?

    Not had puncture problems *touches wood*, had a handful over their life including a couple of pinch flats (a stone and a pothole at speed), but no real issues at all. The 11s Chorus chain has also done 2300 miles, some will say I should change that as well but it runs smooth and its not stretched.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    drlodge wrote:
    apreading wrote:
    I hear that they start to puncture very often if you run them anything like that long though?

    Not had puncture problems *touches wood*, had a handful over their life including a couple of pinch flats (a stone and a pothole at speed), but no real issues at all. The 11s Chorus chain has also done 2300 miles, some will say I should change that as well but it runs smooth and its not stretched.

    One could question how your bike has done it's 2300 miles .... I trust it's not on the bike rack on the back of the car ... :p:mrgreen:
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Slowbike wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    apreading wrote:
    I hear that they start to puncture very often if you run them anything like that long though?

    Not had puncture problems *touches wood*, had a handful over their life including a couple of pinch flats (a stone and a pothole at speed), but no real issues at all. The 11s Chorus chain has also done 2300 miles, some will say I should change that as well but it runs smooth and its not stretched.

    One could question how your bike has done it's 2300 miles .... I trust it's not on the bike rack on the back of the car ... :p:mrgreen:

    Its all on Strava...so it must be true. :P
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • robbo2011
    robbo2011 Posts: 1,017
    apreading wrote:
    I hear that they start to puncture very often if you run them anything like that long though?

    Maybe you've heard bad info because like I said up thread, I have now done 6500km on a single set without any punctures. Plenty of life left in them too...
  • Mikey41
    Mikey41 Posts: 690
    So far, so good for mine. Can't fault them and they've been over some pretty dodgy surfaces. I'm impressed with them. Conti themselves rate them as a Sportive/Race tyre, and they are certainly quick.

    Sure I'm close to 500 miles on them now, not a mark on them. I'll keep my eye on the sidewalls though.

    I'm expecting these to last a minimum of 1500 miles. If they fall apart before then I will not be buying them again.
    Giant Defy 2 (2012)
    Giant Defy Advanced 2 (2013)
    Giant Revel 1 Ltd (2013)
    Strava
  • rich_e
    rich_e Posts: 389
    After spotting that the GP4000s on my rear had a tiny bulge appear in the sidewall and that a google search seems to reveal that despite being great tyres, these tyres do have some sidewall problems, I decided to ask the Continental reps at the Cycle Show last week about it.

    Their response was that the sidewall is obviously inherently going to be a weaker part and that if I did have a bulge appearing in the sidewall it would be because I had damaged it myself, either by rubbing it on a kerb or on something else... though I don't believe I've done either.

    They then went on to say that its a difficult compromise in that people want a fast tyre, but has some durability. They suggested looking at other tyres in the range if you want a stronger sidewall and more durability.

    They did eventually concede though that I was welcome to take my rear tyre back to the shop I bought it from and the dealer could try and warranty it. They said to keep riding them unless the threads are actually starting to come out.

    Think I will actually take the tyre back to the shop at some stage and see how it goes.

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