Gradients

Schoie81

Supermurph09 wrote:

That segment imo is a bit daft for Winnatts, should use this one as this is where the climb starts just as you turn off the road so use that as your guide

Yeah, but the first 0.2miles and the last 0.2miles of that segment are pretty much flat, so it brings the overall gradient down to 11% - Winnats is much steeper than 11%!!

That profile also highlights the inaccuracies in Strava - at 0.6miles the profile shows a downhill section droping about 60ft - don't get excited about having a bit of a rest here - it doesn't exist! Once you leave the mini-roundabout at the car park in Castleton, theres no downhill until you get beyond the top of Winnats.

dannyharris

Tried something new on my commute to work this morning.
Got a cat 4 climb halfway through the journey.
So I thought lets try my lowest gear (biggest cog) all the way. Rather than a few gears down like I normally do.

And wow got to the top without puffing like I had just eaten a hot curry.

Got a 9% gradient climb near home for half a mile. Going to try that in the same gear and see what happens.

TheSmithers

Supermurph09 wrote:

That segment imo is a bit daft for Winnatts, should use this one as this is where the climb starts just as you turn off the road so use that as your guide. http://www.strava.com/segments/2441513 Did Rowsley again tonight, the motto of "it doesnt get easier you just go faster" was very apt.

What gearing do you have?

Wow! 681ft rise in a little over a mile :shock: That's a proper hill! The gradient is as much as 40% in places assuming Strava is correct. I pity any poor fool who attempts that without a compact chainset.

You're so lucky living in that part of the UK . The South Downs aint bad for hills, but compared to stuff like this, they're just raised areas of earth!

supermurph09

Its the steepest 11% I've ever known!! Its more like 20% imo.

dannyharris

Ok so hit a couple of hills on the way home. Shame they wasn't a bit longer.
But I guess it's the closest I'm gonna get to the real thing.

https://www.strava.com/activities/73373409

supermurph09

Danny, none of those climbs were even a cat 4 so maybe not the best practice. Have you tried doing the explore on strava so you can search for categorised climbs near you? How about this one? http://www.strava.com/segments/1552180

dannyharris

I meant the gradients. And that segment doesn't look too bad at all. Been past it a few times.

supermurph09

Yeah it looked a bit tame.

dannyharris

Lol well yea I guess it is.
Resting tomorrow. So should have fresh legs for my walk up winnats.

dannyharris

Well for those that wanted to know how it went.
I guess you could say interesting. The climb from Castleton upto the cattle grid looks flat as a pancake when looking up to winnats pass. It's not flat at all and with a headwind feels rather steep.

As for the pass itself. Wow. Got halfway up before stopping. Then a few more meters had to stop again.
It's hard with the traffic to climb. Tried zigzagging don't think it helped. The road is a bit too narrow.
It hurts all the way.
Unsure if my gearing is right for that type of climb.
Wasn't sure what would explode first my legs or my lungs. (Need to quit smoking)
Also think my bike setup isn't as good as it could be.
The pain my body was in was unreal. Almost felt like my kidneys was about to burst through my sides.
Took a while to recover from it.

https://www.strava.com/activities/73826065

desweller

At least you had a go. And I tell you what, if you had another go same time next week, it would already be easier just because you have an inkling of what's coming.

Maybe start doing those cost calculations for a compact though eh?

dannyharris

While new bike would be nice.
Lighter frame lighter wheels better gears.

the_cyclist_of_catan

marcusjb wrote:

Seems an odd thing to say, anyone can climb 20% as a very short section.

I can't. I can climb for mile after mile after mile if the gradient's 5% or so. Even 10% I can sustain for a fair old while. But when the gradient heads north of 15% I struggle, and anything like 20% has me off and walking within yards! Blatant breach of rule 5, perhaps, and I know I'll get better with time and training, but even though I do 100 miles a week, those steep gradients have me blowing up in seconds.

Finished the Jurassic Classic Epic today. 100 miles with 2750m of climbing. The two steepest of which had me off and walking as per usual, even though they were the first two big hills of the day. The other hills, which gained just as much altitude but over less brutal gradients, I got up just fine (if "just fine" includes puffing like a steam train and swearing like a trooper, that is).

dannyharris

Yea I'm with you on that. I really enjoy climbing at similar gradients.
Can do it all day.

Don't think its just down to fitness. I think the correct gear ratio makes a world of difference.

desweller

I know people always say that there is no difference between pushing hard up a hill and pushing hard on the flat, but I often wonder if some people cope with the deceleration in the dead spot in the pedal stroke better than others. Getting through that is the killer on really steep climbs, that's where you can come to a halt if you don't have the power.

Schoie81

Danny - well done for giving it a go! It is a beast! I've never attempted to cycle up it, but I do drive up and down Winnats quite a bit and my car really struggles in 2nd gear up there, so it is not a hill to take lightly. I'll keep working on the other hills in the High Peak & Peak District before I think about giving it a go myself.

So....are you still going to do the PeliDeli ride? You can rest assured in the knowledge that everything else it throws at you on the day will be easier than Winnats!

I hope you enjoyed the view once you had made it to the top (and recovered... )

dannyharris

I will still be going on the PeliDeli ride.
Might be easier knowing what to expect.
Going to try a lower gear ratio for it too.

sancho_uk

Winnats is tough.. Ive tackled it twice and weather permitting intend to ride that way again this weekend!

Dont let people mucky your thought with gearing and what not..

I run a standard compact chainset on my Focus, 54/30 - 12/25 which is hardly a "climbing" ratio but i can puff and wheeze my way up it!

keef66

"I run a standard compact chainset on my Focus, 54/30"

That's quite a jump between chainrings you have there. Do you mean 50 / 34?

sancho_uk

Balls! Yes i do, it would seem my ability to climb is better than my ability with numbers

Schoie81

Sancho - so how did your first two trips up Winnats go? Did you go bottom-to-top without stopping on a 34/25 setup?

sancho_uk

First time i tackled it no, i got about half way and legs went as i was testing out the Sportive route i would be doing the week after..

Second time i think was aided or at least spurred on by the fact there was myself and a few others going through the same pain.. It was tough going, im not going to lie but its just ensuring you dont enter the red zone to early.

Climbing is all about going at your own pace

dannyharris

Ok round two this Sunday.
Route I'm taking below.
This will more than likely be the PeliDeli route too.

http://connect.garmin.com/course/4471318

Schoie81

Well enjoy that! Has he given more detail on the PeliDeli route then - as that route you've posted doesn't include Riber or Beeley, which he originally said you would be cycling? There's still some good hills to get you working though! I know those roads well, and have cycled some of them - in fact, I'll be cycling a few bits of that route tonight! Take care between Ashford and Monsal Head - not a hard climb, but its narrow, twisty and quite busy and cars come flying down there - not a particularly nice road to cycle up.. (sorry if you know the road already and i'm 'teaching you to suck eggs'...)

dannyharris

I don't know the roads. So thanks for the heads up.

dannyharris

Going back to the main topic.
For example my commute climb according to strava is about 1.5 mile average of 4% gradient. Cat 4.
Winnats pass is 0.6 mile around 14% gradient. Cat 4
So how are the cats worked out?
Is it overall height gained by distance?

supermurph09

https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/2042 ... For-Rides-

Winnats Pass is 1.2 miles Cat3 btw.

Schoie81

Supermurph's link says it all. Have to say I find the cat classification strange. I cycled a CAT3 climb last night which was average of 4.3% but over 3miles long. I found that 100 times easier than many CAT4 climbs I do that are steep but around a mile in length. Although 3miles is a long climb, it just doesn't seem anywhere near as hard to me when its only 4%. But maybe that's just me...?

marcusww

How would this be classified at 1/4 mile long? This was difficult to walk up let alone cycle!

Schoie81

Marcusww wrote:

How would this be classified at 1/4 mile long? This was difficult to walk up let alone cycle!

That explains my point quite well - according to the Strava explanation, 1/4 mile (402m) at 33% works out at 13266 - which is only a CAT4 climb.