Broken collar bone.
Comments
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If I could afford to, I'd do the same, but you know.
Doc told me the first 3/4 week not much will happen, Mine seems to be fused together now, It goes down when I'm laid flat then pops back out when I'm stood up but the bone itself doesn't come apart.0 -
A couple of hours after...
1 week after...
5 weeks on with broken scapula too. Lucky me!
another 4 weeks before more x-rays. Can't even clean my teeth with the right arm or drink a drink. God knows how people can be riding again a couple of weeks after breaking their collar bone. A properly horrendous injury!!!0 -
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Hi chap.
yours looks just like mine did. In a months time you will end up getting it plated. thing is they are happy to treat you conservativly. i.e. not do anything if they can unless it beaks the skin!! they will say at least 7 weeks to see if it heals.
My advice ask for it plating and start the recovery. i sent from july to feb with it like that and life was rubbish! plated and back on a bike in 8 weeks (it takes longer to head the second time)0 -
The consultant seemed to leave the door open for me to choose although be didn't exactly say that. I know my body and I would not be not be mentally strong enough to be 'ok' with a piece of metal under my skin even if I knew it would be able to be removed at a later date. I would freak out. I know I would. I've been given excersises to do which have given me more mobility in just a day. I've been trying to keep as still as possible for the last 5 weeks and that's obviously had A detrimental effect on my movment. It can take 12 weeks or more so the rule of thumb 4-6 weeks is right out of the window.
It is right what was written elsewhere in this thread about the casual attitude most health authorities seem to place on the clavicle not just in the UK. At the moment I'm 'relatively' happy seeing how it goes on its own. After a lot of thought the surgical option would be as a last resort All things considered.0 -
I hear what you're saying Andy. You've had a bad experience and I'm sorry for that. Genuinely.
I am also Aware that people have perfectly well from this injury. I just have to hope I can be added to that stat pile!0 -
I'm not happy at all with how the doctors/consultants are handling mine.
You said your consultant told you to do exercises, I was told to 'Just move it a bit from the elbow and a bit from the shoulder, but not too much'... Heh?
More worried about the fact that my job (Steel and Titanium) includes a lot of heavy lifting, Some lengths of bars we have to slug about weigh up to 120kgs.0 -
It's certainly a bit of a grey area Dan. Lots of conflicting messages. My job too often involves heavy lifting. It is a very worrying time. How are you sleeping? I stayed away from the dr's for a month and in hindsight this probably put my healing back 3 weeks. After all your body best heals itself whilst asleep and if all you're doing is lying there panicking then that's bound to be detrimantal to the process. I've tried Zoplicone which is very mild. Benadryl which is better but not amazing. Tonight I'm trying nytol once so il see how that goes.
The excersises I was to to do were pendulum ones whereby you try and gentle swing the whole arm and finger walking up the wall as far as you can gradually getting higher and higher. It really hurts from the break area and when I breath hard too! There's still loads of bruising under the skin that's coming out. A non union is rare the consultant told me a d from the research Ive done its about 8-15% so that gives me hope. However All non surgical breaks will heal as a mal union which is not good in terms of movement being like before the injury. My consultant said for a collar bone a "fiburus union" would be ok in terms of acceptable movment. "Acceptable" to whom?!
Professional sportsmen would have bad it treated surgically. That speaks volumes. Not without the associated risks tho...0 -
Get it plated.
I had a bad smash with a car (I'm a roadie) and whilst not broken, I damaged the bones (scraped) and lots of soft tissue. I pushed and pushed for a decompression, then needed steroid injections, but it all got fixed.
My thinking is, if busted, get it fixed. Me being on the bike saves the NHS in the future as I should be healthier. Things get busted, get it fixed, plates and things or not.
You've been waiting too long, and those bones aren't going to re-align magically.
Anything that stops you riding, get it fixed. Your doctors look at you and think 'super fit' but damage like this is a big issue for us that don't live on the couch.0 -
Was back at the hospital again this morning. The consultant didn't seem at all concerned about how the bones are over lapping but the bones aren't healing up properly.
He mentioned the possibility of an operation but said to wait another 4 weeks and then they'll decide...
I'm not at all happy, The last time I went I was told to do stretches/movements with my arm, Today I was told I shouldn't of been moving my arm and to keep it as still as possible?
If I could afford to, I'd go private and get it sorted properly.0 -
Appalling! and just adding further to your worry.
I have a bit more movement in my arm now (50%) of what i had before the crash. I'm back for the 3rd time on the 23rd. The bones still aren't fused and i really can't believe they ever will, theres just too much movement in them. I'd say there been little or no progress in 7 weeks. Less pain and more movement but the bones are still as far apart as the day it happened. Almost 1cm of movement up and down.
I cant get my hand above my head. From everything i've read it is important to mobilize your arm as soon as its pain free to do so to stop unnecessary muscle deterioration (frozen shoulder etc). Theres so much variation on broken collar bones. Seems like you and I are both having a muthafuka of an experience!!!
I will be pushing for action because i can't go on like this.0 -
There doesn't feel to be any movement what so ever with the bones with me, I have pretty much all my movement back as well. I was feeling good about it the past couple of weeks, Was looking forward to the doctor saying I'll be able to try ride again in a few weeks but doesn't look like that's gonna be said any time soon.
Haven't had any pain in my shoulder for a good 3 weeks now as well.0 -
I don't understand then...what are you concerned about?0
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Sounds a bit of a pisstake, really should have started to see some proper results by now. If they're not healing by now what's the point in waiting another 4 weeks. You got a picture of the latest x-ray? If there's no movement in them but the surgeon says there's a problem then it could be there's a malunion of something going on that he's worried about.qooqiiu wrote:
I have a bit more movement in my arm now (50%) of what i had before the crash. I'm back for the 3rd time on the 23rd. The bones still aren't fused and i really can't believe they ever will, theres just too much movement in them. I'd say there been little or no progress in 7 weeks. Less pain and more movement but the bones are still as far apart as the day it happened. Almost 1cm of movement up and down.
That's a pisstake too, 7 weeks and no proper union, surgery time at a guess…
Essentially there's 2 broad ways bones heal:
Indirect healing/secondary union - what your bone is supposed to be healing by- is the body's natural healing where you get callus formation around the fracture. Essentially there's a sequence of increasingly stiff connective tissue forming. It starts as an inflammatory process and progresses from a haematoma → granulation tissue → connective tissue → fibrocartilage and cancellous bone → bone over a period of days weeks, then after this there is a period of remodelling over months/years and you get more function back.
It doesn't need absolute stability but there's a limit to how well it will work If there's improper immobilisation especially during the earlier stages then it can cause problems as you effectively undoing the the repair work. Problem is you can get a either a failure to unite or malunion where the bone heals correctly but in the wrong position, and kind of inidcates that some kind of fixation would have been useful in the first place.
There's also direct healing/primary union- this is pretty much when the bones are touching or very very close to eachother (<0.01mm) and osteones migrate directly accross the fracture, pretty much like little rods just sliding through from each. Normally that's through artificial compression plates. In slightly larger gaps, up to 0.5-1mm little layers of bone will form first, then the osteones move across but pretty much just the same, and it normally relates to implants.
I'd imagine the NHS wants to minimise the number of surgeries they need to do because of both costs and the risks involved, orthopaedic surgeries need to be super clean and their can be serious complications... so their first route is to try and let them heal by secondary union, not exactly the gold standard though.0 -
Angry Bird wrote:I'd imagine the NHS wants to minimise the number of surgeries they need to do because of both costs and the risks involved, orthopaedic surgeries need to be super clean and their can be serious complications... so their first route is to try and let them heal by secondary union, not exactly the gold standard though.
From what ive read ALL non surgically treated broken collar bones will heal as a mal union. Doesn't nessarly mean a bad functional outcome. Its all about cost here.
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qooqiiu wrote:I don't understand then...what are you concerned about?
The fact that I'm getting pissed about big time. They're just fobbing me off when I go see the consultant and 4 weeks is a long time to wait.0 -
qooqiiu wrote:Angry Bird wrote:I'd imagine the NHS wants to minimise the number of surgeries they need to do because of both costs and the risks involved, orthopaedic surgeries need to be super clean and their can be serious complications... so their first route is to try and let them heal by secondary union, not exactly the gold standard though.
From what ive read ALL non surgically treated broken collar bones will heal as a mal union. Doesn't nessarly mean a bad functional outcome. Its all about cost here.
Well that's not hard to believe given how difficult it must be to reallign the bone and stop it from moving about. Malunion isn't necessarily a problem at the end of the day, no, as long as the bone heals to around the right length, doesn't have any rotational deformities and is strong enough to cope with the loads placed on it etc. I've seen a lot of radiographs of bloody stupid malunions though. The other issue is the potential for a complete non-union.
Having said that, generally bones that are left to heal by themselves rather than fixed surgically, in particular with plates, tend to heal quicker. But at least with the surgery you can ensure that it is going to heal and have some proper management of it.0 -
Only just noticed this thread so thought I would say hi as have similar issues...
Had an off on jul 9 and broke clavicle at the distal end plus 2 ribs plus small pneumo thorax
Consultant told me straight away that clavicle wouldn't heal by itself... Would have done the op on day 1 but wouldn't risk it until lung puncture sorted. So consultation 2weeks later, confirmed plate needed and booked in in three days. Op was very straightforward and have spent six weeks recovering, no work no driving, no cycling. Bone not knitting yet but in the loop with physio and have appropriate and suitable exercises to do. Can use a turbo now and even get on the drops but mobility and strength is pretty rubbish
If all you are getting is come back in 4 weeks and hope it gets better, that seems pretty rubbish0 -
Distal end breaks are more likely not to heal up.
The fact that i had a comminuted fracture and a broken shoulder blade really should have been enough grounds for surgery. I am going to have to bite the bullet and have this surgery even though i know its gonna be hard for me to get my head round. The sharp edges of the bone mean that any weighty clothing makes it really sore, seat belt is out of the question too.0 -
Fortunately I wasn't given the choice so I just had to get on with it. Having a plate isn't too bad. It does stabilise everything but I think will cause nerve and blood vessel damage in the surrounding area. I have a numb shoulder and the feeling is only just starting to come back. I was expecting to see evidence of healing after 6 weeks but as yet very little. I suspect that blood vessels might need to reconnect in the area so patience is the only way. I can do most things now except any lifting, and have next physio tomorrow as I need to get the mobility back. Two months since the off now and counting ... Very frustrating. I was given a large supply of ibuprofen codeine and paracetamol which I only use at bed time. I did keep the sling on at night time to remind me not to roll on it. Also I'm taking calcium supplements and drinking plenty of milk and getting on the turbo daily as it increases blood supply0
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Hi guys, Just got back from seeing the consultant again. Had it X-Rayed again and he said it's only slightly improved over the last X-Ray I had 4 weeks ago.
Told him that everything feels fine and it has done for a month or so now, Full movement there and so on. He said if I was in any pain or discomfort then they would decide to operate due to it being like 2 and a half months since I broke it and it's only slightly healed. The X-Ray looked pretty much identical to the original but there is some tissue between the break now, Not solid bone though.
Said there could be an issue with it healing as fibrous tissue and not bone. He put a lot of pressure on it and it felt fine.
Gonna see how it feels on the bike this weekend, back to work on Monday.0 -
Is getting on the bike not risking doing more damage? I know you said it doesn't hurt, but if there's only tissue between the bone and not bone, then it's not healed and therefore not back to its original strength?0
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Consultant said it's just a possibility that it could end up as fibrous tissue, He applied a sh*t load of pressure onto the break and it didn't budge or hurt a single bit.
Only gonna do a few easy road miles to see how it feels, Should be ok? Nice relaxed upright position.0 -
Fair play mate0
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I'm not 110% sure if I am going to yet... It's been a long time of been of work and off the bike. All I wanna do is go for a ride.0
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Yeah I can imagine. Maybe it wouldnt be too bad on road, it's just if you come off that's all.0
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It just isn't productive to think about coming off again... If it's something you're passionate about, just get on and do it. I'm plated but the last x ray 4 weeks ago showed no obvious union but I've been doing stuff on the turbo with some aching so just got out there and started riding again. As well as training I've done a 30 mile flat charity ride and a 47 mile hilly sportive with no real problems. Are you doing physio btw? I have loads of exercises to get the socket back to full mobility. Just build up slowly, don't overdo it and don't expect full fitness immediately. Sounds like you are well on the way back!0
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Not doing any physio mate but I have full movement and no pains or aches at all.
Just got back from a 16 mile road ride and everything felt fine apart from my arse and lack of fitness. Didn't help myself with not eating this morning and getting slightly fresh lastnight. Buzzing!
Dropped the fork pressure a bit to soften the front end up, Kept stopping every few miles to move my arm about but no pains or aches at all.0 -
excellent... thats what ive been doing. i was finding it was getting stiff when in the same position for a while so just kept wiggling it about. now its not even doing that at all. just keep it steady and dont be tempted to do too much too soon0
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Thing is Dan if you go along to the consultant and say pain free and movement ok, he isnt going to do diddly for you.
I ve broken my rt one 3 times and each time it heals up just fine (though they did say if i do it again, i ll need an op ) i have never used a sling but a figure of 8 bandage instead, i kno research doesnt support my belief but the sling seems to allow too much movement, the fig of 8 holds it all back and i get some arm usage too and the new ones are velcro adjustable so can pull the shoulders way back - also dont use NSAID pain killers (neurofen), they are linked to slow bone growth.
and pls get some Physio or at the very least start doing press-ups on your knees to start with, if you cant, then go back to your fracture clinic and complain, your GP can refer you for Physio OR find out if you have a college/uni that teaches students Physio, the end of course students often need folk to practice on...under supervision and its dirt cheap.0
