French Cycling - why is it so rubbish?

andyjr

All the French teams seem to want to do is to get into breakaways & try and win stages that way. None of them make any concerted/focussed effort on the GC. Is that because of a lack of talent or pressure from the DS in an attempt to keep sponsors happy in what is effectively their home race?

As with most things in sport, things go in cycles. The French are currently in a low, but there does appear to be some half decent young talent coming through. Question is whether they have the right attitude & focus to make a success of what they have.

Daz555

The question to ask is where are France heading? Up or down?

GB cycling was flat and had been for many years - same sort of results over the same sort of time scales decade after decade. Since 1992 however and the famous Boardman pursuit gold, GB cycling has been on the UP - and in the last decade it has gone insane.

So is French cycling gaining on the opposition, or losing ground?

No_Ta_Doctor

Daz555 wrote:

The question to ask is where are France heading? Up or down?

GB cycling was flat and had been for many years - same sort of results over the same sort of time scales decade after decade. Since 1992 however and the famous Boardman pursuit gold, GB cycling has been on the UP - and in the last decade it has gone insane.

So is French cycling gaining on the opposition, or losing ground?

This calls for someone with spreadsheet skills.

I demand * a graph of performance, by nation, over the last 3 decades. Would be interesting to see the French dip into the nineties.

I'd suggest something like top ten GT finishes, weighted by position. That could produce 4 graphs, one for each GT and one for combined.

If you're really good with the stats and want to show off you can add in some best fit curves of some sort.

And if you're really suffering GT withdrawal then and don't know what to do with yourself, then chuck the classics in as well ;-)

Anyone?




*politely request

Yellow Peril

andyjr wrote:

All the French teams seem to want to do is to get into breakaways & try and win stages that way. None of them make any concerted/focussed effort on the GC. Is that because of a lack of talent or pressure from the DS in an attempt to keep sponsors happy in what is effectively their home race?

As with most things in sport, things go in cycles. The French are currently in a low, but there does appear to be some half decent young talent coming through. Question is whether they have the right attitude & focus to make a success of what they have.

It seemed that way and the biggest advocate of that approach was Europcar. There may have been more to that as it was announced during the Tour that they had secured more sponsorship. It was a tactic that worked as the first thing that always came into my mind each day was who from that team would be in the break. the sponsors must have been ecstatic. So no stage win but contracts and sponsorship assured going forward.

mididoctors

if you asked me in 2011 I would have said up.

No_Ta_Doctor

mididoctors wrote:

if you asked me in 2011 I would have said up.

Unfortunately it's looking like 2011 was a momentary lapse of crapness.

davidof

mike6 wrote:

I have lived in France for two years now and I can, in my very limited experience, vouch for a lot of the problems already mentioned.

With the fantastic, quiet roads, lots of hills, if you want them, and great weather its a cyclists heaven down in the Haute Garonne.

Historically the epicenter of French cycling is more Brittany, West and North of France - somewhat bizarrely as this is where there is most rain. If you come to the Alps you'll also see some good young riders out in all conditions.

However what you and others have said is somewhat symptomatic of French society in general at the moment: depressed, lacking ambition, sclerotic. A place where school leavers aspire to be civil servants in comfy 35 hour a week jobs. Cycling isn't a 35 hour a week job for life. Other French sports are also suffering. I mean, the national football team went on strike during the world cup because the trainer was asking them to train!

That said, there was that Wimbledon singles victory.

lostboysaint

Why has FF not contributed to this?

mike6

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Go and watch and bike race in France and you'll see closed roads, marshals with traffic stopping powers, decent teams and good racing.

Far superiour to even the premier calendar.

France has more top pro teams also.

They may not have won the tour but then again doping is a serious offence there - probably puts them off going that extra mile like other nations tend to.

You are spot on with the doping scenario. Doping is a criminal offence in France. This alone has probably detered most French riders from taking that step over the last decade or so. Lack of a roll model may be the reason more kids have not aspired to be top cyclists.
That and the fact its a hard, hard metier, and kids have more to occupy them now.

rick_chasey

mididoctors wrote:

I think they need to stop racing each other in a stupid if we can't we win then neither can they manner. especially in the tour..

This accounts for some of it for sure. It's twice as tough for a Frenchman to get into a break without other French representation.

Chavanel and Voeckler are their best riders, and are probably the two least affected by the above.

I also think a mentality around what is expected is putting the brakes on. There isn't enough hunger or ambition.

Simon was the only rider who rode like his career depended on it. For one day.

It's like when the Pinot won the French riders drew a collective sigh of relief. Which is ironic given how they race.

Remarkable

When you look at it though, Voeckler et al are actually French.... Wiggins is from Belgium and Froome is from Kenya. Maybe they need to nationalize more French cyclists.....

shinyhelmut

Remarkable wrote:

When you look at it though, Voeckler et al are actually French.... Wiggins is from Belgium and Froome is from Kenya. Maybe they need to nationalize more French cyclists.....

They had quite a handy Moroccan a few years back....

RichN95.

Remarkable wrote:

When you look at it though, Voeckler et al are actually French.... Wiggins is from Belgium and Froome is from Kenya. Maybe they need to nationalize more French cyclists.....

Voeckler's West Indian

mike6

Remarkable wrote:

When you look at it though, Voeckler et al are actually French.... Wiggins is from Belgium and Froome is from Kenya. Maybe they need to nationalize more French cyclists.....

Voeckler is actually Alsatian, so not strictly French. The Germans could also claim him, If Tony Martin stopped delivering.

Tony Martin? That sounds English to me, should we sign him up?

joelsim

mike6 wrote:

Voeckler is actually Alsatian, so not strictly French.

Is that why he rides with his tongue out?

No_Ta_Doctor

Joelsim wrote:

mike6 wrote:

Voeckler is actually Alsatian, so not strictly French.

Is that why he rides with his tongue out?

Vino'sGhost

Joelsim wrote:

mike6 wrote:

Voeckler is actually Alsatian, so not strictly French.

Is that why he rides with his tongue out?

PMSL

DeadCalm

TheBigBean wrote:

One factor that is not very helpful is that a potential French talent has to ride the tour, so they never get to have a proper crack at the Vuelta or Giro which often have less competition and might be a good starting point. For example, Italy hasn't had a tour winner for a long time, but no one mentions that because many Italians have won the Giro.

This is one factor for sure. JC Peraud would have been challenging for a podium at this year's Giro and Betancur would have been more suited to the parcours at the TDF but it would have been inconceivable for Peraud not to have ridden the Tour let alone to have a foreigner lead AG2R.

Turfle wrote:

As others have said, there is no shortage of talent, it just doesn't seem to be utilised well. Europcar are the only French team who try to make things happen (at the highest level anyway), others seem content with getting a man in the break, or waiting for a top 10 in the sprint. Maybe it's a question of depth of talent.

In fairness to both of the French pro-tour teams, neither started out simply looking to get a man in the break. The abandons of Pinot, Bouhanni and Peraud scuppered them and they went with the next best approach, something Garmin were lauded for.

The depth of talent is probably stronger in France than almost anywhere. The 100th best Frenchman is probably the equal of the 20th best Brit, for example. The trouble the French have had is that they haven't produced the best of the best for a while.

Turfle wrote:

They still have great young talent coming through. All still younger than 23 - Pinot, Bardet, Elissonde, Barguil. Demare, Bouhanni. I doubt many nations have got 6 much more talented than that in that age group.

And there is some promising talent coming through in the age group below too. Which is surprising because cycling doesn't really seem to be a young person's sport in France these days. Living and riding as I do in Britanny, the supposed heartland of French cycling, I encounter many cyclists out and about. The vast, vast majority would be aged over 50.

knedlicky

I wouldn’t say it was all rubbish – apart from the posts above mentioning future prospects, in the Tour Ag2R did fine and might have done better if some of their riders hadn’t gone out injured.

No tA Doctor wrote:

is it that the French don't really care about success as long as you get on TV and crack up the panache for the cameras?

I think there is an element of this. Not so long ago, it was similar in the UK, when a Boardman stage victory was heralded like as if overall GC victory. Difference is, in the UK ambitions existed while in France there has always been a great degree of laissez-faire.

No tA Doctor wrote:

Personally I think a French version of Sky would do them a world of good.

Perhaps, but not a team not based on FDJ - FDJ philosophy is really to encourage grass roots, not concentrate on providing Tour winners.
I'm also unsure how a French version of Sky would be accepted by other French teams and the public - because of the French character, I think such a team would be far less accepted/liked compared to Sky in the UK .

Other things played a role in the poor French performance this year - the Tour team selections and/or race tactics at Cofidis, Europcar and FDJ could have all been better, and when Madiot announced the Tour is over (as he did at the end of the first week), it was hardly motivating to his team.
I also think Pinot wasn’t up to the mental pressure of being a team leader and GC prospect, and I read that, before the Tour, he and Rolland may have already worn hats too big for themselves.
It’s time Europcar free themselves of Voeckler – he’s past his best, he epitomises the instant short-term success just for TV and, without him, more scope both for the team and for Rolland would be possible.

mike6 wrote:

if you are French and win a stage of the Tour you are a national hero for life, so no real reason to try overly hard again.

Virenque has said many young riders like to ‘faire la nouba’ (i.e. go partying) rather than suffer on a bicycle the necessary hours of training for long-term success.
L'oncle Richard le sait.

Turfle

Pinot, Rolland, Bardet, Jeannesson, Voeckler, Chavanel, Gallopin, Simon, Bouhanni,


That would be a team to contend with.

Macaloon

...

specialgueststar

50% of riders in top 12 of young rider classification

Still re building after a long period of being sidelined

However why does Chavanel stand out so much having signed for a non French team - and Gallopin?

Is this telling something? However Ag2R seem to be getting the most out of the riders.

The FFC have already said it's time for a new approach

1. Nairo Alexander Quintana Rojas (Col) Movistar Team 84:01:00
2 Andrew Talansky (USA) Garmin-Sharp 0:13:19
3 Michal Kwiatkowski (Pol) Omega Pharma-Quick Step 0:14:39
4 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:22:22
5 Tom Dumoulin (Ned) Team Argos-Shimano 1:30:10
6 Alexandre Geniez (Fra) FDJ.fr 1:33:46
7 Tejay van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team 1:34:37
8 Alexis Vuillermoz (Fra) Sojasun 1:35:45
9 Tony Gallopin (Fra) RadioShack Leopard 1:58:39
10 Arthur Vichot (Fra) FDJ.fr 2:10:46
11 Jon Izaguirre Insausti (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 2:17:12
12 Rudy Molard (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits