French Cycling - why is it so rubbish?
No_Ta_Doctor
Posts: 14,646
I'm sure everyone has a pet theory on this, and hopefully someone will provide some nice graphs/pie-charts showing their statistical lack of success over the last couple of decades...
In the bad old days post it was often said that French cycling was rubbish because they were the only ones riding clean.
So now the peloton is looking a little less grubby, shouldn't we be starting to see some better results?
Is it just that you can ride like a bag of potatoes all year and still get a wildcard for le tour, or is it that the French don't really care about success as long as you get on TV and crack up the panache for the cameras?
Personally I think a French version of Sky would do them a world of good.
In the bad old days post it was often said that French cycling was rubbish because they were the only ones riding clean.
So now the peloton is looking a little less grubby, shouldn't we be starting to see some better results?
Is it just that you can ride like a bag of potatoes all year and still get a wildcard for le tour, or is it that the French don't really care about success as long as you get on TV and crack up the panache for the cameras?
Personally I think a French version of Sky would do them a world of good.
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They need rounder wheels.0
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Isn't it demographic? Not enough kids cycling or something?1968, human content on bitumen.0
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AG2R, Cofidis, Sojasun, Europcar, FDJ
The answer's pretty much there. Too many competing national cycling teams and not enough talent or direction for one decent one that could take on the likes of Sky or Movistar.0 -
Seem to recall Hinault and Jalabert having some fairly forthright opinions on this.
A lot of old-school training methods still prevail, pros who won't train when it's raining, a lot of races but a lack of seeding and decent categorisation in the amateurs, too many professional teams all favouring French riders and (my pet theory) that decades of not really expecting to win thanks to having more stringent doping laws than the rest of Europe have left them a bit complacent about training and preparation.
In what other major nation could David Moncoutie have been a succesful pro cyclist for 15 years?"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Let's leave David Moncoutie out of this. He was clean as a whistle and was actually reasonably successful, especially at the Vuelta. He could have been a massive star if his career didn't coincide with the EPO era. His palmares is not too shabby at all. One of the sport's good guys.
DD.0 -
I think eurocar had the riders to win a stage or two and the disney jumper but just fffed it up. rode a very stupid race a fair few times
not to mention neutralised a good shot at a french win into Lyon. at least vichot knew just keep marking the attacks."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
No tA Doctor - is that avatar of yours the much talked about Camargue horse?
Edit - in fact lots of people have the same one. What's going on?0 -
TheBigBean wrote:No tA Doctor - is that avatar of yours the much talked about Camargue horse?
Edit - in fact lots of people have the same one. What's going on?
Check the stage 21 spoiler thread, a FF tribute.Edinburgh Revolution Curve
http://app.strava.com/athletes/19200480 -
doug5_10 wrote:TheBigBean wrote:No tA Doctor - is that avatar of yours the much talked about Camargue horse?
Edit - in fact lots of people have the same one. What's going on?
Check the stage 21 spoiler thread, a FF tribute.
Cheers. Makes it easy to identify the classroom bullies.0 -
The French teams are still living in the 1980's and are utterly unprofessional, as is the FFRC.
Until they start applying some science and modern methods to training and race preparation they will remain in the shadows.
This comes from someone who recently followed Europcar on the RAIT as a friend is a DS this year. Farcical.0 -
TheBigBean wrote:Cheers. Makes it easy to identify the classroom bullies.
Might want to read the thread, if you're being serious. We had the best of intentions, and it was taken in fine humour by FF.Macaloon wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Good effort
I if knew you all loved horses so much I would post them more often, along with the giraffes, elephants and tigers.
Hope you enjoy the spectacular later. I sure am excited to see what they will do.
Good lad....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
TheBigBean wrote:doug5_10 wrote:TheBigBean wrote:No tA Doctor - is that avatar of yours the much talked about Camargue horse?
Edit - in fact lots of people have the same one. What's going on?
Check the stage 21 spoiler thread, a FF tribute.
Cheers. Makes it easy to identify the classroom bullies.
BB have I done anything to offend you? Your post reads like I have.0 -
The decision to send Rolland after the polka dot, rather than contend for a podium/top 5 place seemed really odd. Such a waste.0
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Yellow Peril wrote:TheBigBean wrote:doug5_10 wrote:TheBigBean wrote:No tA Doctor - is that avatar of yours the much talked about Camargue horse?
Edit - in fact lots of people have the same one. What's going on?
Check the stage 21 spoiler thread, a FF tribute.
Cheers. Makes it easy to identify the classroom bullies.
BB have I done anything to offend you? Your post reads like I have.
is it all possible to have at least one thread we talk about racing rather than each other"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Turfle wrote:The decision to send Rolland after the polka dot, rather than contend for a podium/top 5 place seemed really odd. Such a waste.
2 yrs in a row as well
lack of ambition euro were right in the mix in 2011 then took the soft option of letting tommy lose time so he go for the polka dots in 2012...yeah whatever
but really PR for the clown spots in 2013 was setting the bar low."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I think it is dfown to the cycling infrastructure in France just getting caught up and overtaken by emerging nations and nations such as Britain where there is a cycling boom.
It will be interesting to see if someone in France creates a team along the lines of Sky/OGE in the next couple of years0 -
Dunno. Its a very competitive world out there with a lot of different countries so some nations will just be in a bit of lull. France actually has seven riders in the top 100 in the world tour and is placed 7th overall. Given that road cycling is apparently not as popular amongst young people it is perhaps to be expected that France wont be that high. If they had one big star going for the overall win or doing really well in the sprints then it wouldnt be that noticeable. If Pinot hadnt had his descending problems and Rolland had managed to get the KoM, Peraud had finished then it would look better for France (thats a lot of ifs though). Bardet did well, maybe he will be the next one to hold the uncomfortable mantle of the next French superstar? France obviously has a long heritage in the sport but its a different world now. Italy only has two in the top 40 (Nibali, Scarponi)
Having said that, France has been in a 'lull' for a long time. Maybe they would benefit from having one or two super teams with better resources rather than more smaller teams. The best ranked rider that i can see is Chavanel who is one of the few Frenchmen to not be in a team from his nation.0 -
mididoctors wrote:is it all possible to have at least one thread we talk about racing rather than each other
Sorry, my fault for the slight derailment - I do normally only post about pro racing.
I, like many others no doubt, was disappointed that Pinot didn't do much this year, but clearly sickness and descending issues got in the way there. One day the French talents will eventually make it.
One factor that is not very helpful is that a potential French talent has to ride the tour, so they never get to have a proper crack at the Vuelta or Giro which often have less competition and might be a good starting point. For example, Italy hasn't had a tour winner for a long time, but no one mentions that because many Italians have won the Giro.0 -
Money isn't everything but British sport has had a lot of cash injected into it thanks to the lottery - "financial doping" they were calling it on the radio last night.
That money buys coaching staff which seems pretty key to me when you have cyclists that don't all live or train in the same place.0 -
Cumulonimbus wrote:Dunno. Its a very competitive world out there with a lot of different countries so some nations will just be in a bit of lull. France actually has seven riders in the top 100 in the world tour and is placed 7th overall. Given that road cycling is apparently not as popular amongst young people it is perhaps to be expected that France wont be that high. If they had one big star going for the overall win or doing really well in the sprints then it wouldnt be that noticeable. If Pinot hadnt had his descending problems and Rolland had managed to get the KoM, Peraud had finished then it would look better for France (thats a lot of ifs though). Bardet did well, maybe he will be the next one to hold the uncomfortable mantle of the next French superstar? France obviously has a long heritage in the sport but its a different world now. Italy only has two in the top 40 (Nibali, Scarponi)
Having said that, France has been in a 'lull' for a long time. Maybe they would benefit from having one or two super teams with better resources rather than more smaller teams. The best ranked rider that i can see is Chavanel who is one of the few Frenchmen to not be in a team from his nation.
I think they need to stop racing each other in a stupid if we can't we win then neither can they manner. especially in the tour.
I agree with you that the french have plenty of potential just with who they have."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
mididoctors wrote:
I think they need to stop racing each other in a stupid if we can't we win then neither can they manner. especially in the tour.
Are you talking about the Ventoux stage? That blew up in their faces in the end because if they hadnt chased the break then at least some of the guys might have made it to the top before the GC guys. That would have meant that Quintana wouldnt have got all those points for second place and maybe Rolland could have won the KoM overall.0 -
As others have said, there is no shortage of talent, it just doesn't seem to be utilised well. Europcar are the only French team who try to make things happen (at the highest level anyway), others seem content with getting a man in the break, or waiting for a top 10 in the sprint. Maybe it's a question of depth of talent.
They still have great young talent coming through. All still younger than 23 - Pinot, Bardet, Elissonde, Barguil. Demare, Bouhanni. I doubt many nations have got 6 much more talented than that in that age group.0 -
kleinstroker wrote:AG2R, Cofidis, Sojasun, Europcar, FDJ
The answer's pretty much there. Too many competing national cycling teams and not enough talent or direction for one decent one that could take on the likes of Sky or Movistar.
+1
French cycling seems produce results at junior level 3 wins and a 2nd in the last 5 years, suggesting they can get riders in to the sport, but converting junior talent into world tour success seems beyond them. Suggesting something isn't right within the teams.
I know it's not a given that a junior world champ will turn out to be a good pro, in fact looking at the results it appears the opposite. More just making the point that they can generate talent so do have something to work with.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCI_Road_W ... _road_race0 -
Anyone know what happened to Coppel in this year's tour? He's done well in the last two but didnt seem to feature in this one?0
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Cumulonimbus wrote:mididoctors wrote:
I think they need to stop racing each other in a stupid if we can't we win then neither can they manner. especially in the tour.
Are you talking about the Ventoux stage? That blew up in their faces in the end because if they hadnt chased the break then at least some of the guys might have made it to the top before the GC guys. That would have meant that Quintana wouldnt have got all those points for second place and maybe Rolland could have won the KoM overall.
yes.. if anything they should have encouraged the break especially after PR shot his legs failing to bridge he wasn't going to score.
one example
the KOM is a long game"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I have lived in France for two years now and I can, in my very limited experience, vouch for a lot of the problems already mentioned.
With the fantastic, quiet roads, lots of hills, if you want them, and great weather its a cyclists heaven down in the Haute Garonne.
Sadly I dont see too many cyclists and most of the ones I do see are over 50. A bit like Britain in that respect. The velo club in my village has a membership of about 50, of which I am the strongest. Quite a boast, till I tell you I am 61 and hardly Jens Voigt.
If it is raining there will be two of us for the Sunday run, me and a Dutchman. The runs split into short, 45 to 50k, and long 75 to 90k. Usually just me and the Dutchman on the long route, and sometimes Louis, who is French but is 74 years old.
I am told most of the clubs are like this as the French have to be home for Midi on a Suday for the long lunch.
I could count the number of young serious cyclists I have seen riding over the last two years on one hand.
Also, France is a country where lots of sports are readily available to the young, handball, tennis, football, rugby, swimming, athletics so the old compulsion to ride a bike to get away from the family farm is long gone.
Added to that, if you are French and win a stage of the Tour you are a national hero for life, so no real reason to try overly hard again. The French still adore the Tour but seem quite relaxed about the lack of national success.0 -
It's not just France, though. Take Nibali out of the equation and Italian cycling is also kind of crappy right now.0
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Go and watch and bike race in France and you'll see closed roads, marshals with traffic stopping powers, decent teams and good racing.
Far superiour to even the premier calendar.
France has more top pro teams also.
They may not have won the tour but then again doping is a serious offence there - probably puts them off going that extra mile like other nations tend to.0 -
mike6 wrote:I have lived in France for two years now and I can, in my very limited experience, vouch for a lot of the problems already mentioned.
With the fantastic, quiet roads, lots of hills, if you want them, and great weather its a cyclists heaven down in the Haute Garonne.
Sadly I dont see too many cyclists and most of the ones I do see are over 50. A bit like Britain in that respect. The velo club in my village has a membership of about 50, of which I am the strongest. Quite a boast, till I tell you I am 61 and hardly Jens Voigt.
If it is raining there will be two of us for the Sunday run, me and a Dutchman. The runs split into short, 45 to 50k, and long 75 to 90k. Usually just me and the Dutchman on the long route, and sometimes Louis, who is French but is 74 years old.
I am told most of the clubs are like this as the French have to be home for Midi on a Suday for the long lunch.
I could count the number of young serious cyclists I have seen riding over the last two years on one hand.
Also, France is a country where lots of sports are readily available to the young, handball, tennis, football, rugby, swimming, athletics so the old compulsion to ride a bike to get away from the family farm is long gone.
Added to that, if you are French and win a stage of the Tour you are a national hero for life, so no real reason to try overly hard again. The French still adore the Tour but seem quite relaxed about the lack of national success.
You are Malcolm Elliott and I claim my prize.
Seriously though this is quite sad. I suspect that it is a catch 22 situation. there are no "great" French cyclists at the moment (no disrespect to Chava) and so no inspiration for youngsters to get involved so I would imagine the raw material is drying up. The IOM has a reasonable amount of younger cyclists but then again opportunities to do things are limited on the rock which means that kids will turn out, especially into a sport where they have reasonable current national success.0 -
afx237vi wrote:It's not just France, though. Take Nibali out of the equation and Italian cycling is also kind of crappy right now.
3 out of the 4 most recent Giros have been won by Italians (Nibali, Basso and Scarponi*) which keeps the Italians happy. The problem for French riders is that their local race is also the biggest cycling race of the year. I'm not saying that Rolland would win the Giro, but it has to be a bit easier and he could probably manage a high placing.
*Usual caveats regarding various placings in 2011.0
