Which long drop brakes?

holiver

Hey gang,

I am in the process of ordering bits to build up a Kinesis Racelight T2 frame for all around commuting and long ride duty. One area where I am struggling to make a choice of components is the brakes - I need some black 57mm long drop brakes to compliment the rest of the build and to handle full guards.

So far I am considering the Miche Performance and Tektro R737 models. The Miche are really very cheap, with the Tektro being just under twice as much.

http://www.miche.it/en/catalogo/catalogo-miche/freni/freni-performance-8
http://www.tektro.com/_english/01_products/01_prodetail.php?pid=64&sortname=Brake&sort=1&fid=2

Does anyone have any experience with these or any others they can recommend?

Cheers!

noiseboyfeetman

I've got the Miche Performance on my Tifosi and they're a pretty decent brakeset, especially so considering the price. The brakepads mine came with though were pretty rubbish especially in the wet so you might want to swap them out for something better.

rothers_bikeo

These: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-br-r451-dual-pivot-brake-caliper/

Miles better then the Tektros that came fitted to my Equilibrium.

holiver

Thanks guys. I've tried the Miche on the Tifosi CK7 and they seemed to be OK. I am coming from a mountain bike background so looking to have the best performance possible for a reasonable price. I'll certainly look further into the Shimanos.

mrushton

Dont fanny about. Shimano R650 - Ultegra level in a deep drop

Bordersroadie

Holiver, my T2 has Tektros, due to budget at time of build. I wanted Shimano R650 but they were out of my price range for the build.

My dry bike uses Ultegra 6700 standard drop brakes with standard pads. They are awesomely good in wet or dry, massively powerful and progressive with little lever pull needed for confident braking. This is my benchmark (same alu rims on both bikes BTW).

My wet bike (the T2) with its Tektros on standard pads were bloody awful in the dry and scary in the wet. They soon started eating the aluminium rims and the bits of alloy embedded in the pads made a lovely grinding paste and made them even worse for wet braking. I swapped to Swissstop greens which along with Koolstop salmons seem to get all the plaudits on BR forum at least. This improved things considerably but they are still way short of the Ultegra 6700 especially in the wet. They do actually stop me, I can lock up the back wheel for example, but the amount of lever pulling force needed is way more than I'm happy with. I feel like I'm going to pull the cable throughthe caliper clamps or bend the caliper arms. I'm guessing it's down to quality of pivot bushings/rigidity of caliper arms/general manufacturing tolerances being less than great.

If the Shimano R650 are even nearly as good as Ultegra 6700 then they are well worth the extra money and I plan to make the upgrade when I can set aside the budget for it. You can only get them in silver - I have black everything on my T2 - but that is a small price if they stop me more safely.

Oh, and the Tektros are rusting after one winter, on the springs and the pivot bolts - not great for a winter bike brakeset. This seems to be a common thing.

Hope this helps.

majormantra

R650s are very good. I have them on my (Campag equipped) winter bike.

infopete

I had Tektro's for 4 months on my Ribble 365 shopping bike before they started to rust.

I've just swapped them to Shimano R650 they feel much better and I hope don't rust.

holiver

Cool so they are Campag compatible, thanks! I will have a mish-mash of different Campag bits (have a Centaur rear mech and Veloce Ultratorque chainset so far) to pair up with the brakes.

Bordersroadie, do you know which model of Tektro your T2 has?

marcusjb

mrushton wrote:

Dont fanny about. Shimano R650 - Ultegra level in a deep drop

mrushton speaks the truth.

Mighty fine brakes - especially with Swisstop Greens

chilling

650's +1

Bordersroadie

holiver wrote:

Bordersroadie, do you know which model of Tektro your T2 has?

I just checked, they're R539. I recall that Ribble did them super-cheap. I may just try some Koolstop salmon pads before I give up on them, although there's a lot of love for the R650s on this thread!

holiver

Do Tektro brakes use Shimano compatible pads?

majormantra

Yes.

holiver

Cool, so replacement Kool Stop or Swiss Stop will be easy to source then if I go that route.

luv2ride

noiseboyfeetman wrote:

I've got the Miche Performance on my Tifosi and they're a pretty decent brakeset, especially so considering the price. The brakepads mine came with though were pretty rubbish especially in the wet so you might want to swap them out for something better.

I've also got the Miche Performance on my Tifosi CK7, but fitted with Swissstop green pads. These make all the difference. Haven't tried the Shimano's referred to on here, but the Miche are absolutely fine for what I need...

holiver

Cool and do the Miche brakes take Shimano or Campagnolo compatible pads/inserts?

luv2ride

The Miche take Shimano type cartridge pads

holiver

Thanks again to all for their assistance.

In the end I have gone for the Miche Performance brakes. I though I'd take a punt as they are 16 quid for the pair, with what will be free next day delivery (Halfords have just emailed me to say they will be delivered tomorrow)!

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_273957

I may well upgrade the blocks/pads to Kool Stop/Swissstop or Aztec.

cycleclinic

Miche is the best buy. change for some decent pads I have found Aztec Road plus are pretty good in the wet. Shimano R650 are good but The Miche brakes which decent pads are just as good.

passout

mrushton wrote:

Dont fanny about. Shimano R650 - Ultegra level in a deep drop

These

holiver

I received the Miche Performance brakes. The blocks are not metal backed cartridge type so I have ordered some BBB Techstop BBS-22T shoes/pads. They come in packs of 2 pairs so will hopefully provide the best retardation possible.

http://bbbcycling.com/bike-parts/brake-shoes/BBS-22T

Hoopdriver

passout wrote:

mrushton wrote:

Dont fanny about. Shimano R650 - Ultegra level in a deep drop

These

Again. +1

holiver

As an update to this thread the Miche Performance brakes don't appear to have enough of a drop on the Kinesis T2 frame, despite them being labeled as 57mm and the frame stating it needs 57mm drop brakes! Here's the thread where I am having difficulty.

viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12935545

I may need to purchase new brakes as I am not sure if I can get things sorted satisfactorily just using the centreing adjustment. Tektro brakes seem to got down to a 59mm drop according to their website:

http://tektro.com/_english/01_products/ ... rt=1&fid=2
http://tektro.com/_english/01_products/ ... rt=1&fid=2

Any idea if the R737s would be better than the R539s if I went down that route?

The Shimano R451 and R650 brakes only appear to be 57mm drop and I can't find an official manufacturer page for either of them. Does anyone run these brakes on a Kinesis T2?

Thanks!

staffo

Yep, I have a T2 with R650 brakes and the drop isn't maxed out on my Archetype rims.

holiver

For those who stumble across this thread and might be considering purchasing a T2 frameset, it might be worth bearing the below in mind. I asked Kinesis about the issue I was having and here's their reply:

We have found that these cheaper Miche brakes simply do not have enough drop tolerance, 57mm is just not quite enough, whereas our Tektro long drop 59mm drop brakes are spot on. There is not much more I can suggest I’m afraid, the Miche brakes are not compatible.

It's interesting that the Shimano brakes seem to work.

Staffo - a T2 with Archetype rims must look and ride pretty well! What's the rest of your build like? Is it in the Your Road Bikes forum?

staffo

It's not in Your Bikes but here's a pic pre tape wrap http://www.flickr.com/photos/46101248@N05/9471266148/in/set-72157634989270245.

It's a Campag mix of 2005 Chorus (levers, front and rear mech), 2009 Centaur UT chainset, new Veloce cassette and Record hubs. The rest of the build is FSA bars, stem and seatpost, Arione Versus saddle and SKS longboard mudguards.

It rides really well and looks great even though the black brake track wore off pretty quickly as expected.

gabriel959

holiver wrote:

For those who stumble across this thread and might be considering purchasing a T2 frameset, it might be worth bearing the below in mind. I asked Kinesis about the issue I was having and here's their reply:

We have found that these cheaper Miche brakes simply do not have enough drop tolerance, 57mm is just not quite enough, whereas our Tektro long drop 59mm drop brakes are spot on. There is not much more I can suggest I’m afraid, the Miche brakes are not compatible.

It's interesting that the Shimano brakes seem to work.

Staffo - a T2 with Archetype rims must look and ride pretty well! What's the rest of your build like? Is it in the Your Road Bikes forum?

That is a shame, got the same brakes from Halfords (although managed to get them for £7 only! 8) ) and they fit my Giant SCR 2 perfectly. I measured the drop in the caliper and it is 57mm with my rule. My guess is that the Kinesis in reality is a 59mm drop not a 57mm?

keef66

I have the original Racelight Tk from 6 years ago. It has Shimano BR450 long drop brakes, and the brake blocks could go a bit lower if required.

giant_man

It's a shame the R650 doesn't come in black, and it's even more of a shame that Campag don't offer a long reach caliper imo.

IanMSpencer

Late to the party but I've had my Tiagra based T2 for a couple of years running Shimano 451, which fit perfectly but are very disappointing in terms of stopping power. For chugging around Warwickshire potholes{/s] roads I've stuck with budget Shimano RS10/RS30 wheels so the wheels are essentially the same material across bikes and I run the same brake blocks on both bikes, yet my 105 equipped carbon bike has extremely good braking and my T2 running 451 is worryingly poor. The drop on 105 is effectively about 40mm centre of pivot to centre of block and 60mm on the T2 yet it I don't feel I can get sufficient leverage over the drops to brake effectively on a steep descent, it is not a case of being half as effective, but being unable to get the same level of braking I get without significant effort for the total effort.

I guess it is not just the drop, the 451's are significantly wider between the arms yet the brake lever is not positioned wider. Although the Tiagra levers are slightly different in shape, I think the hand position onto the lever is the same. Yet between the two designs, I feel the stopping power is far less than the apparent difference that could be explained by leverage differences.

So I am pondering whether the Ultegra long drops will solve the problem - I guess I need someone who has swapped between the two to say whether you get a bit of an improvement (in which case I think I'll be sulking at forking out) or a lot of an improvement. Of course, I can try softer blocks...