Another death in London...

gabriel959

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23312059

Collision with a lorry. R.I.P

raymondo60

Just seen the news item - no indication of who/how/what yet. Quite chilling as that's a part of my regular route. Shocking.....................

Paul E

Another lorry :-(

edds

It happened right outside my office (though I am working from home today). My colleagues say it is a large tipper truck. Very close to home.

Headhuunter

edds wrote:

It happened right outside my office (though I am working from home today). My colleagues say it is a large tipper truck. Very close to home.

I used to work just up the road near Chancery Lane... Scarily close to roads I know

raymondo60

I've just walked down to view the scene. It is NOT, as I first suspected, a ''lorry turning left' incident. Large Tipper Lorry, six-wheel jobbie, actually in a straight line, facing west, a few yards from the lights at High Holborn/Kingsway. The cycle appeared to be directly underneath - there's a Police 'tent' covering the rear of the lorry. A very chilling scene that brought a tear to my eye. What a terrible thing to happen again............

sketchley

So sad. RIP.

Lorry driver has been arrested.

"The 51-year-old tipper truck driver is being held on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving, police said."

http://www.london24.com/news/news/obit/ ... _1_2278419

okgo

Not nice news, I also walked down there for a meeting and saw the scene, quick search of holborn on twitter confirmed the worse.

RIP

I will be interested to see what they release on this one, as said above, it wasn't the usual left turn, it was directly behind, so I can't think how this happened unless it was a vehicle behind that pushed them into the one in front or the vehicle in front reversed. Horrid.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Bloody hell. I came in late this morning, and as I was riding up the slope behind Temple tube I could see the air ambulance dropping down for what could only have been a landing around that area.

Poor guy.

bails87

RIP

Is that now 5 cyclists killed by lorries alone in the last 2 weeks? Two in London, two on the A30 in Devon and one in Edinburgh. As well as a hit and run in Wolverhampton last week and no doubt several more fatal collisions.

I love being on my bike but the death toll seems a bit relentless at the moment.

Koncordski

Sketchley wrote:

So sad. RIP.

Lorry driver has been arrested.

"The 51-year-old tipper truck driver is being held on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving, police said."

http://www.london24.com/news/news/obit/ ... _1_2278419

I'll wait for the usual trial result, professional driver had unblemished record, cyclist wasn't wearing hi-viz, 6 points and a £350 fine for 'careless' driving. :roll:

sketchley

Koncordski wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

So sad. RIP.

Lorry driver has been arrested.

"The 51-year-old tipper truck driver is being held on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving, police said."

http://www.london24.com/news/news/obit/ ... _1_2278419

I'll wait for the usual trial result, professional driver had unblemished record, cyclist wasn't wearing hi-viz, 6 points and a £350 fine for 'careless' driving. :roll:

I get your point but you're being a bit quick to judge on serveral fronts there..... The arrest might just be routine given a road death and the need to question the driver under caution.

Koncordski

Sketchley wrote:

Koncordski wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

So sad. RIP.

Lorry driver has been arrested.

"The 51-year-old tipper truck driver is being held on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving, police said."

http://www.london24.com/news/news/obit/ ... _1_2278419

I'll wait for the usual trial result, professional driver had unblemished record, cyclist wasn't wearing hi-viz, 6 points and a £350 fine for 'careless' driving. :roll:

I get your point but you're being a bit quick to judge on serveral fronts there..... The arrest might just be routine given a road death and the need to question the driver under caution.

Fair point mate, I'm just a bit fed up hearing about the same thing happening over and over again. It's awful news, thoughts with family and friends.

t4tomo

i'm pretty much sure its standard to arrest the driver in these circumstances.

RIP.

jonny_trousers

Very sad.

Obviously I have no information on this particular case, but it does shock me how often I see a particular type of truck being driven fast in Central London. They may even be within the speed limit, but these things are wide, have limited views from the cabin, will inevitably be less manoeuvrable than a car and will have longer braking distances. I'm not sure trucks need to be banned from the city centre, but they do need to be driven with the understanding of what damage they can cause.

Pufftmw

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Very sad.

Obviously I have no information on this particular case, but it does shock me how often I see a particular type of truck being driven fast in Central London. They may even be within the speed limit, but these things are wide, have limited views from the cabin, will inevitably be less manoeuvrable than a car and will have longer braking distances. I'm not sure trucks need to be banned from the city centre, but they do need to be driven with the understanding of what damage they can cause.

I agree but then on the other hand, there are those that are excellent drivers, like the one this afternoon outside Euston Station. I was parked on his outside looking to go straight ahead at the lights. I looked up to see if he would have noticed me and he wound down his window to ask if I was going straight ahead He then let me pull off and ahead safely before he drove off. Thanks m8

(I wouldn't have gone for it if I hadn't got eyeball as I was in a tight space in the right turn lane down to Russell Square and there was a raised paving ahead of me).

spen666

Sketchley wrote:

Koncordski wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

So sad. RIP.

Lorry driver has been arrested.

"The 51-year-old tipper truck driver is being held on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving, police said."

http://www.london24.com/news/news/obit/ ... _1_2278419

I'll wait for the usual trial result, professional driver had unblemished record, cyclist wasn't wearing hi-viz, 6 points and a £350 fine for 'careless' driving. :roll:

I get your point but you're being a bit quick to judge on serveral fronts there..... The arrest might just be routine given a road death and the need to question the driver under caution.

You cannot arrest someone just to interview them under caution.

They can be interviewed under caution without an arrest.

Before you can arrest someone you need to have grounds to suspect them of having committed an offence and that the arrest was necessary to meet one of the criteria ie preserve evidence etc

Arrest cannot be routine


The relevant case is that of Richardson v Chief Constable of West Midlands Police http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2011/773.html

cyclingprop

spen666 wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

Koncordski wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

So sad. RIP.

Lorry driver has been arrested.

"The 51-year-old tipper truck driver is being held on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving, police said."

http://www.london24.com/news/news/obit/ ... _1_2278419

I'll wait for the usual trial result, professional driver had unblemished record, cyclist wasn't wearing hi-viz, 6 points and a £350 fine for 'careless' driving. :roll:

I get your point but you're being a bit quick to judge on serveral fronts there..... The arrest might just be routine given a road death and the need to question the driver under caution.

You cannot arrest someone just to interview them under caution.

They can be interviewed under caution without an arrest.

Before you can arrest someone you need to have grounds to suspect them of having committed an offence and that the arrest was necessary to meet one of the criteria ie preserve evidence etc

Arrest cannot be routine

Arrest surely should be routine in the event the officer has grounds to suspect an offence has been committed and the arrest was necessary to blah blah

What you mean is arrest shouldn't be default.

mbthegreat

Judging by the fact that only the lorry was left on the road and the forensic tent was directly behind it (went past there about 11am) I'm guessing either the truck plowed straight into and over him, or he went down while the truck was tailgating, absolutely horrible.

DonDaddyD

I'm not going to speculate and Spen has, as always, clearly explained the legal position.

There are a lot more cyclists on the road of varying abilities, it is likely we are seeing an increase in collisions as a direct result of this. In terms of pure maths more cyclists and vehicles = more potential accidents that can and do happen.

R.I.P

roger_merriman

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm not going to speculate and Spen has, as always, clearly explained the legal position.

There are a lot more cyclists on the road of varying abilities, it is likely we are seeing an increase in collisions as a direct result of this. In terms of pure maths more cyclists and vehicles = more potential accidents that can and do happen.

R.I.P

RIP indeed.

mybreakfastconsisted

It's the other way round, more cyclists = safer roads. For instance, the cycling rate in London has doubled since 2000, but the accident rate has halved. It seems counter-intuitive, but more cyclists makes the roads safer, drivers get used to them and may even cycle themselves:

It seems paradoxical but the more people ride bicycles on our city streets, the less likely they are to be injured in traffic accidents.




International research reveals that as cycling participation increases, a cyclist is far less likely to collide with a motor vehicle or suffer injury and death - and what's true for cyclists is true for pedestrians. And it's not simply because there are fewer cars on the roads, but because motorists seem to change their behaviour and drive more safely when they see more cyclists and pedestrians around.

Studies in many countries have shown consistently that the number of motorists colliding with walkers or cyclists doesn't increase equally with the number of people walking or bicycling.

For example, a community that doubles its cycling numbers can expect a one-third drop in the per-cyclist frequency of a crash with a motor vehicle.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 112034.htm

Risky behaviour by cyclists is rarely a factor in RTCs. It is usually the driver's fault, although naturally nobody knows yet with this latest fatality.

Incidentally, the cops were fining cyclists who tried to avoid that horrible junction last week:

Another pedestrian pushing a bike (like me) stopped to ask why they were doing it. "It's busses only" they said. But why? we asked. "Because it's too narrow for a bus to pass cyclists safely, you have to go round."

Going round involves dropping onto Holborn and negotiating four lanes of traffic. I've done it every day since and it makes even me, an experienced cyclist nervous. Motorbikes buzz you, taxis rush red lights to get through and huge trucks obliterate the view. It's hellish.

So it was sad but unsurprising to find a cyclist was killed there this morning. Stupid road planning is to blame, as are the police for enforcing a rule that prevents cyclists using the safer bus lane along Bloomsbury Way.

The idea that that bus lane is too narrow is hokum: A - show me any bus lane in the land that allows busses to pass cyclists with the amount of space recommended in the highway code; B - it's only 200m long, even a slow moving commuter on a Boris bike won't hold the bus up too long in such a short space.

The fact the police were targeting cyclists on this stretch only five days ago smacks of money grabbing opportunism, the real world safety of the issue be damned. If I wasn't so resigned to the fact that we are second class citizens, useful only as a cash cow to prop up dwindling tax revenues, I'd probably be furious right now. As it is, it's just another depressing day for London cyclists

http://andywaterman.blogspot.co.uk/2013 ... lborn.html

prj45

My stars, the front picture here tells a story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... weeks.html

okgo

So yes it looks like it has run straight over him. Fucking outrageous. That is the one thing I don't think about, I worry about everything in every other direction, now I need to make sure people stop before running over me from behind? Lost for words tbh. Staggering.

daviesee

prj45 wrote:

My stars, the front picture here tells a story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... weeks.html

I hate to say it but from the photos, one possibility is that looks like one cyclist that would have been better off jumping the red.

raymondo60

okgo wrote:

So yes it looks like it has run straight over him. ******* outrageous. That is the one thing I don't think about, I worry about everything in every other direction, now I need to make sure people stop before running over me from behind? Lost for words tbh. Staggering.

With the utmost respect, let's wait to see what the investigation reveals. I'll happily defend cyclists all day long - I viewed the accident scene twice today, the second time as I rode past on my way home, and it was pretty chilling, and I know the lorry driver has been arrested etc - but we don't know what actually happened yet, so forming or expressing any opinions, no matter how strongly felt, would be premature. At this point all we can do is send our condolences to the bereaved and wait for the relevant parties to do what they have to do. Oh, and ride safely ourselves; my journey home tonight was certainly one of the most intense I can remember; South London duly reminded me and others just how crazy cycling through this city can be sometimes.....

Mr.Duck

prj45 wrote:

My stars, the front picture here tells a story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... weeks.html

A lot of road users have quite poor lane discipline. I expect it was the lorry driver at fault, but I wouldn't be suprised if the cyclist had taken a less than ideal path. Like changed lanes in an odd way, straddled the white line, or did something like that. Just getting in the lane properly and take up the whole lane if needs be (like if it is a narrow lane) will help a lot because you are being really predicable and obvious in the path you are taking. Does that make sense?

rick_chasey

Give lorries wide birth guys.

As you lot will know I'm as belligerent as anyone but even I jump out of the way when a lorry comes.

Pavement, whatever. If they're spending more than 2 seconds beside me, even with no turnings or anything I'm either squeezing the brakes to let them past or hopping onto the pavement.

fat_tail

Rick Chasey wrote:

Give lorries wide birth guys.

As you lot will know I'm as belligerent as anyone but even I jump out of the way when a lorry comes.

Pavement, whatever. If they're spending more than 2 seconds beside me, even with no turnings or anything I'm either squeezing the brakes to let them past or hopping onto the pavement.

+1 .. I hate those things.

daviesee

Rick Chasey wrote:

Give lorries wide birth guys.
....

I imagine any birth of a lorry would be wide. And guys doing it?

DonDaddyD

If there is any form of memorial/protest/road safety ride as a result of this, please post details. Despite my stance protest rides - I gladly add my bike for something like this.